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It's Alive - Banks Marine Engine in the Dyno Cell

7.7K views 20 replies 14 participants last post by  prcwerx55  
#1 · (Edited)
From our Friday Night News section. This is the prototype of our Duramax based twin turbo marine engine. Enjoy:D
http://www.bankspower.com/fridaynightnews/show/7-Its-Alive---Banks-Marine-Engine-in-the-Dyno-Cel

It's Alive - Banks Marine Engine in the Dyno CelSeptember 25, 2009

By the time you read this, both dyno room and on-the-water testing will be underway on the new Banks marine turbo-diesel being developed for high performance, sport and possible defense industry use. But how did this powerful V-8 monster spring to life? Here's the inside story.
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Ask any engineer and they'll tell you. Building a mega-horsepower, high-revving turbo diesel for a blast down the quarter-mile or a Bonneville run that lasts a few seconds is no easy task. Now imagine building an engine that delivers amazingly high performance full-bore, pedal to the metal, for two hours straight and longer-on the water! It's the kind of thing that gives most engineers recurring nightmares and spells of vertigo. That is, of course, unless they work at Banks Power.
Yes, the Banks crew is at it again.
You could say all the heavy lifting happened when they built their world's fastest and quickest diesel pro-stock Sidewinder drag truck. After all, you don't go from 0 to 180 mph in 7.72 seconds without learning a thing or two about extracting maximum performance with rapid throttle response. Plus the reliability you gain when you're setting new records each time you turn up the wick and make another pass down the ÂĽ mile. These are factors which are both extremely important for marine applications. You could say the heavy lifting was done, but you'd be wrong. Because while virtually every engine system developed for the Sidewinder drag truck has found its way onto the test engine currently being assembled, they all had to be re-designed and re-engineered for the unique demands of marine use.
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It all began with a stock Duramax 6.6 liter, single turbo diesel. With the excitement and enthusiasm of kids unwrapping a new Christmas present, the Banks crew first stripped it to pieces, and then rebuilt it inside and out with modified pistons, stronger rods, a higher-volume oil pump, and fitted it with twin-turbos and a shiny Banks-red intake plenum. Fun. But they were just getting started. Each and every component was examined and many replaced with a newly designed and engineered piece. If the stock part wasn't up to the job, or right for marine use, stronger materials were utilized and different geometries were developed using CAD until all doubts about reliability were satisfied.
When you're going to torture an engine by running it at max power for hours on end, you better make sure the cooling and lubrication systems are up to snuff. Especially in a boat where no matter what kind of crazy power you are pumping out, engine compartment temps have to be kept at a minimum for safety reasons. That's where Banks Power's Computer Flow Dynamics analysis comes in. Newly prototyped heat exchangers, exhaust manifold water jackets and even the specially modified piston cooling jets were tested until they achieved the best flow numbers possible under the most grueling conditions.
There are definitely good things and bad things about converting an engine designed to run on land for on-the-water use. The good news is that when it comes to cooling there is plenty of the wet stuff around. This "marinized" engine uses turbocharged air that is cooled through a seawater-powered heat exchanger and therefore much more efficient at delivering oxygen-rich powerful air to the combustion chamber than its land-based air-to-air intercooler counterpart. The bad news is that being around all that moisture makes for some heavy-duty corrosion. This meant that completely new ducting and plumbing systems had to be engineered with materials that wouldn't rust.
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So what other technologies developed for the drag truck made their way into Banks new marine turbo diesel? The custom fuel injectors were used to meet the flow requirements of a high-powered engine. As was the CAN-enabled engine control computer with the calibration numbers tweaked to balance performance and endurance.
Have their been any teething problems? A few. But considering that there are so many new components and systems in this engine, it's all good news so far. Every day the Banks crew inches closer to their goal-a turbo-marine diesel that delivers 550-plus horsepower for exhausting time periods and make every diesel or gas-powered boat enthusiast drool. Fortunately, with plenty of water around, there's a good chance their wives and girlfriends won't notice the socially-incorrect behavior.
 
#2 ·
So your post begs the question........

If an engine just hit the dyno on 09/25/09 with a goal of 550hp...... Why has Banks been pitching 350-550hp marine engines on the web site for a year and a half or so.
 
#13 ·
So your post begs the question........

If an engine just hit the dyno on 09/25/09 with a goal of 550hp...... Why has Banks been pitching 350-550hp marine engines on the web site for a year and a half or so.
Other mules have been on the dyno but this build includes most of the production intent support systems (charge cooler, cooling, lubrication, turbos, etc). Plenty of work still to be done, but this engine will get dropped in a boat (with a twin) for sea-trials soon.
 
#3 ·
noticed different CAC,style/positioning then what was shown on previous website. might be they have been testing mule engines(easy access to parts and observation) on full load, they list NATO spec for 2% power fluctuation over something around 16days continuos load, that might tell what intended market will show. think reggie fountain wanted to get these into his boats to better compete in european offshore(UIM). would not be surprised having same problem as CASPER, i would imagine NATO spec gives specific "high humidity level" for testing.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Sounds like fun. For the boating folks, does this motor at 550hp ish beat the competion in it's weight and cost class?
 
#7 ·
yea only add a couple hundred pounds to a big block and alot less hp than most big blocks in boats... this is more for endurance reliability mileage type applications it seems..
 
#8 ·
As bigdmax, said the banks engine would be more for ocean cruisers and boats of that such. I have ridden in a boat on lake havasu that had 2 older cummins engines in it. It did fairly well, smoked like hell. But it was used for tours and such so having a lot of weight and only cruising at speeds from 35 to 45. Which on lake havasu is like the slow lane of traffic.

Also the issue with having a diesel with 500 ish horsepower, is thats a lot of torque. If it had a merc drive on the back for example it would need to be very well built. For the extra power over a regular big block. Thus adding much more weight.

But two of these engines in a Maxum or good size ocean vessel would be a great set up.
 
#9 ·
what year duramax engine is it?
 
#11 ·
Banks,

Is this engine being developed for cruiser/sportfishing type boats or for go fast offshore hulls? With the twin turbos, will the motor fit in the approxmately same physical space as Crusader big blocks or old Detroit 8.2s? What is the projected fuel burn per hour at rated cruise rpms? What will the price point be compared to cats, yanmars, and cummins around the same hp rating? And, Im guessing you will not be ready in time to unveil at this year's Miami Boat Show? Sorry for all the questions, but we have been interested in this project since Peninsula showed a concept marinized version a couple years ago at Miami.
 
#12 ·
Banks,

Is this engine being developed for cruiser/sportfishing type boats or for go fast offshore hulls? With the twin turbos, will the motor fit in the approxmately same physical space as Crusader big blocks or old Detroit 8.2s? What is the projected fuel burn per hour at rated cruise rpms? What will the price point be compared to cats, yanmars, and cummins around the same hp rating? And, Im guessing you will not be ready in time to unveil at this year's Miami Boat Show? Sorry for all the questions, but we have been interested in this project since Peninsula showed a concept marinized version a couple years ago at Miami.
First application will likely be offshore style performance boats and government service type boats. The motor will fit in approximately the space of existing big block applications. Pricing will be competitive with the major players at a given rating, we’re not building a discount engine. We’ll be at Miami but won’t be ready to deliver engines until sometime later. Sportfishing/cruising/charter is the next application in mind once we finalize transmission selection and durability testing.
 
#17 ·
If I win the Lotto, then I will put a Banks Dmax in my boat. Until then, I will have to continue hand making parts for my $500 6.5 TD engine coupled to a Mercruiser Bravo One outdrive. The engine has been running on the test stand, the Perkins inboard has been removed, and I am itching to get the transom finished, built up to 2" thick with fiberglass and epoxy. Summer is running out and I would like to hear the 4" wet exhaust make some noise. It is only 30 inches long and exits above the water line.
 
#18 ·
Low RPM's in a boat??

My biggest hang up on this DMAX set up is the engine RPM. Most inboard tunnel cats, (Skater, Eliminator, Spectra) are not going to move at 3k rpm's. To beat out a set of twin 300's or 280 hp outboard mercs spinning 6-7k is just not going to happen. There would have to be some overdrive tranny that's going to spit out a 1000 lbs. of torque and then your going to have to spend 40k on a #6 merc drive. Or go surface drive for the speed but you still don't have the RPM's. It's seems like and older jet style boat would work but who wants a squirt. From my perspective, cost is going to bring this project down. When a new 300 outboard is under 20K and it comes with a tranny already, that's is going to be hard to beat. Really just see the guy's at Banks making a big cruiser do twenty all day long for a big price tag.:(
 
#19 ·
Diesel Skater

Just as an FYI...we have a Skater V-hull with a pair of Cummins QSB5.9's rated at 480HP and a max RPM of 3400. The boat is heavy righ now (built that way for testing for an undisclosed purpose). Right now we are running in the high 70's. We are developing propellers to go faster. There is no reason that this can't be a 90MPH package. The boat has Arneson drives on it. We are trying to help develop high-speed diesel boats.

Justin Schaller
Vice-President
Precisionwerx
 
#20 ·
Prcwerx55, I think you have proven my point very well. You have two monster Diesels with at least 25k in arneson drives and it does 70's legged out!!! I could only imagine how much money you have into this project 50- 80K???. My boat does 85 with a 5k outboard. Small boat yes, but power verses weight and the price to run my boat all day with cruise speed of 70 plus. Your boat needs a 40 pitch prop to do 80mph and then you don't have a chance to even plan before most boats are gone. The poker runs out in California are great but you need a quick fast boat. My brothers boat is stock 30 foot V hull with twin 502 chevys and it gets it. It does over 80 and it's pretty quick. Bought it used for 30k. Good luck with the project, sounds like you need to come up with a overdrive trans rather then reinvent the wheel (prop).
 
#21 ·
Advantages of a diesel are: 1) They will last nearly forever; 2) They are very fuel efficient; 3) The performance is not effected by weight.
Disadvantages of a diesel are: 1) You need robust running gear (drive and transmission) to handle the torque; 2) Current diesels are heavy for their power; 3) The RPM range is limited on current diesels.

This boat does have a 2-speed in it. I've been in boats with more speeds than that. I don't think the multispeeds are a necessity so much as designing a diesel to be performance based. Most engines on the market are not built for it. It's like putting fishing boat motors on a high-performance cat. Will it work? Yes. Is it the right application? No.

The propeller is very important. It's not just a speed thing. The diesel makes for a unique challenge with making a propeller get the (heavy) boat on plane quickly and perform like a performance boat instead of a tugboat.

We'll get there. Keep an eye out for our projects. Lots of cool things coming in the next couple of years.

Justin