[racer55]

Yes carcode does TDCO relearn-did you look at the how to file I posted above?
When you get carcode up and running a value with negative sign (-)in front of it is advanced timing.
A number that reads normally or no negative sign is retarded timing.
Factory TDCO is -0.25 to -0.85
For better perfomance loaded a TDCO value of -1.94 is optimum but during cold starts the engine rattles a lot so a high idle mod is desired for those conditions.A value of -1.50 is fine as well.

 

[Bob_wewer]

Thank you racer

I have rec'd the carcode reader. Now I guess I will have to start the vehicle and check it. Any ideas for quick ip adjustment? The driver side lower nut is hard to reach on this truck. It looks like I have to dismantle at least the dbl thermostat to get to it. I was able to reach it on my other truck by just removing the top hose. This one looks impossible without taking things apart every time and reassembling each time I need to adjust. Any ideas?
How do I do the fast idle mod? First time I heard of it I had a switch for the mech ip. Once again Thank you!

 

[Bob_wewer]

Getting ready to work on it. NO WATER IN THE OIL!!!!! I am not sure what the froth at the oil filler was about - obvious moisture. I loosened the drain plug and 3 drips of water - really moisture. When the plug was removed - NO WATER!!! I drained approx 9 QTS of material out. It looks and smells like oil (I was running synthetic with an additive). Now the 9 Qts is about 2-1/2 qts of something additional - FUEL?

Could this be fuel?
Does fuel mix that well with oil (synth)?
COuld the bad timing have deposited oil in my oil?
The froth looked like that of a tired old gasser that never had an oil change. It was not a lot of white foamy stuff - just a little but it scared me along with the level of the oil on the dipstick.

 

[Shane567]

What I Learned About White Smoke

White Smoke What is it and why ?


Black Smoke is To Much Fuel.
Blue Smoke is Oil.
White Smoke is Incomplete Combustion.

One thing to know :
The higher the compression of an engine the more Critical and precise the fuel timing has to be !

If the fuel timing is off [retarded or advanced] there will be Incomplete Combustion, and thus White Smoke !

The More it is Off the more White Smoke and for longer Idle time.

This is what happened to me :

I got a rebuilt Injector pump, Put it on and I set the static timing to -.24
[-0.0 to -.5 is the range you set for]
Then I did the Learn Top Dead Center Offset Learn.
So then the Injector Pump was set right. No White Smoke ! on cold engine
start up.

When I pulled a Travel Trailer for 600 miles, Shut off engine for over night and the started it up next morning I got White Smoke ! What is wrong ? I thought.
I went to the tail pipe and found a low volume of exhaust coming out, with the new Injector pump there was always a lot of exhaust volume coming out. But now there was very little.

I then looked at the fuel timing and it was 9.5° advanced timing when hot.
The timing should be 3.5° advanced.
So what is wrong ?

Also I didn't have the Power that I had with a New Injector Pump.
I couldn't Pull Hills in overdrive any more, I had to do 4th or even 3rd gear.
I have the NV4500 Manual Transition. 3.73 Rear end Ratio 6.5 TD Hi Output
VIN F.
So what is wrong ?

Well the Injector Pump Is Fuel Volume Deficient [Worn out body]
The engine is running too Lean [low power] and the Computer Learns
to make the engine run the best it can, So lean engine the Computer Advances the fuel timing, So at Idle 9.5° instead of 3.5°.
Low exhaust volume is less fuel at idle, the engine uses less fuel at 9.5°
then at 3.5° for the same Idle RPM. So less fuel, less exhaust volume at idle.
also, the fire wall insulation was burning on the drivers side at the cross over pipe. exhaust to hot, lean engine very hot exhaust.
the injector pump was idling at 6-7 mm New pump is 10-11 mm, when they advance the injector pump optical sensor for more fuel it will say on the scan tool less fuel rate in MM the computer compensates with more fuel,
so this one is idling 4 mm less fuel but is is really 4 mm more.
the engine did run a little hotter, with a new injector pump, it was 110° outside full boost 10 psi in overdrive and 2,000 RPM it would run at 192-195 with a new injector pump, everything was OK, fuel rate OK, air fuel ratio OK, Fuel Timing OK. MPG 13-14 MPG, transmition Temp was 190° - 195°
110° outside, full boost 10psi in overdrive at 2,000 RPM 65 MPH.
With the Rebuilt Junk Pump Engine would run at 200° - 210° just a little hotter.
Never Boil Over. MPG was 10. and my transmition would go over 250°
with a 30 foot tongue pull travel trailer, flat road, no wind, 65° outside in Overdrive 60 MPH.

It would have been better to get a New injector pump [$1350] then a Rebuilt Junk Pump [$1050].
I took this pump off and took it back to the Injector Pump Rebuild Shop
and said that these pumps are calibrated and are perfect YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE WRONG WITH YOUR TRUCK !
I asked the Chevy Dealership Diesel Mechanic and said this pump is junk !
It Idles too low on fuel rate it cant put out enough fuel [ 6-7 mm Idle].
they turned the fuel rate up to much, if it idled at 9-10 then it might work OK and have power and start with no white smoke.

I did Replace the Computer With a Refurbished one :

It was cold outside 35°, engine temp was 100° Started it up... 10 seconds glow plug engine quit 3 times and a very large white cloud of smoke, low exhaust volume.
Replaced computer ....
same as before
It was cold outside 35°, engine temp was 100° Started it up... 10 seconds glow plug
engine started just like a new one....
NO WHITE SMOKE ! Idled real smooth, LARGE VOLUME EXHAUST AT TAIL PIPE. I thought I fixed it ! NO NO NO....
went 600 miles pulling trailer, computer learned, offset the timing because
engine running to lean. changed back to JUNK, White Smoke, Just like Before.


I have Made a Scan tool program in Visual Basic so I could see what was
going on with this White Smoke Problem.

any body know the engine calibration data ?
like what the engine fuel timing is for start up at different engine temps ?

 

[racer55]

Getting ready to work on it. NO WATER IN THE OIL!!!!! I am not sure what the froth at the oil filler was about - obvious moisture. I loosened the drain plug and 3 drips of water - really moisture. When the plug was removed - NO WATER!!! I drained approx 9 QTS of material out. It looks and smells like oil (I was running synthetic with an additive). Now the 9 Qts is about 2-1/2 qts of something additional - FUEL?

Could this be fuel?
Does fuel mix that well with oil (synth)?
COuld the bad timing have deposited oil in my oil?
The froth looked like that of a tired old gasser that never had an oil change. It was not a lot of white foamy stuff - just a little but it scared me along with the level of the oil on the dipstick.

It is likely fuel mixed with the oil.
There could be a problem with a seal in the front of the IP or you could have a bad injector.This time of year and during winter ther is higher humidity in the air and a small amount of froth around the oil fill is not that unusual.
My truck has dual t stats and even before I had the proper wrenches I was able to get at the drivers side nut,just very little swing of the wrench,I also had to add another short wrench for leverage to get it loosened. I did however remove the upper intake to get access to the IP.I just had to reinstall it before running the engine.

Using carcode identify where your TDCO is currently,do not relearn yet.

Loosen all 3 of the nuts when the engine is cold, then determine which way to turn the IP.
To get a higher negative value turn the IP towards the drivers side.
Then only tighten the top stud on the IP so if you need to make adjustments on a hot engine it is much easier to lossen 1 nut rather than 3,and run your engine up to over 180 degrees and proceed with the TDCO relearn.
When you have finished and are satisfied with the TDCO reading you have let the engine cool completly and tighten all 3 of the IP nuts and happy motoring.

 

[Bob_wewer]

Thanks so much

BOY I HOPE IT IS THAT EASY....I am afraid that I moved the crank and cam (when they were connected and the IP was loose - then I turned them back) too much when I did the timing chain. When I turned the cam sprocket nut, the cam and crank moved counter clockwise and I turned it back I think just a bit too far.

I could not get the car dode reader to work today because I am running Win7 Home Premium and it will not run. I called the CarCode company and the guy said I would have to get upgrade to win 7 professional. My wife just purchased it for me for $90. I hate microsoft. I tried to bring back an old XP laptopto no avail.

ANYWAY::
I did have to remove the Plenum-upper intake & I turned the IP all the way to the driver's side and the truck actually idles rough. I will get the reading and chime in. I am afraid it has to go further to advance and I have no room left. I guess this means that I will have to inevitably, take the front apart again and dismantle the IP cog and wheel and turn it back a little. I left the upper intake off to start it. I don't think that hurts anything. I just wanted to get a reading in case I had to move the IP again (I didn't want to put the intake back on and take it back off).

Does that sound right?? Either way I will wait to see where the timing is at 180 degrees.

 

[racer55]

The initial timing reading you get will be inaccurate since it is stored in the ecm from before the work was done.
So you are correct in letting the engine run up to temp and then do the relearn.
I would still begin with the IP centered just to see where you are.
Also the intake needs to be replaced when you run the engine otherwise you will set some codes and they must be cleared before you can perform the relearn.
Thats the reason for only snugging up the top nut on the IP when the engine was cold,so when its hot you only have to loosen 1 nut to move the IP.
Remember 1mm move on the IP is about equal to 2 degrees of timing change.
So if you begin at 0 dgrees on your first relearn a 1mm change towards the drivers side will get you almost perfectly in time.

When I did mine I used a desktop computer so I could not try setting the timing with the throttle as I have seen described with the tech II and some say carcode can do as well.
I hope to confirm this at a later date when privatepilot comes back my way since I have gotten a working laptop now.

 

[Bob_wewer]

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327013&highlight=timing+chain+turbo+replacement

Hey Racer,
Thanks for all your help. The above link is the post I followed to do the timing chain replacement. Although it is a great post, I took it as gospel and did not think to set everything to sync with the IP. Since I rotated the crank and cam independant of the IP (as it was unhooked) and then tried to turn it back but missed a little bit, I am sure I am going to have to remove the cover and get the IP in line again. Do you know a better source for information on this? I am very sure I messed up since I have to now rotate the IP all the way to advance to make it run less radically. I have not yet plugged in the computer as I just now have the XP mode working on my reliable Win 7 laptop.

WHat I need to know is how to set the IP to sync with the cam and crank. I am not sure how that is done. I have the valve timing right. That much I know. I am shooting in the dark if I can't figure this out. I know this probably sounds silly but tomorrow is my day to dig into this truck. I will put the intake back on and clear the codes and see where I am but I already expect that I am so far out that I can't recover without another partial teardown. Does this sound plausible? Thanks in advance to you, and anyone out there that can help.

Bob

 

[racer55]

It is certainly possable.
The link you followed is a very good 1 so review this particular part:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3455866&postcount=17

 

[Bob_wewer]

Yes! Whoops! "IP Drive Gear

-Put the new triangle gasket onto the IP studs in the Timing cover.
-Slide the pump back into the hole and tighten the 3 nuts.
-Rotate the motor until the timing mark on the bottom IP drive gear is up.
-Install the upper IP drive gear so that the mark lines up with the bottom gear. You may have to rotate the pump to get it right. Install the 3 bolts that hold the gear to the pump "

I think I goofed as I did not do this part. I feel like a moron. I have to look and find the mark. I think he is referring to the same mark on the top sproket that is alligned for the cam/crank. Is that right?

Nope I read it again. There must be a mark on the lower timing gear!

SO I blew up his photo and I think I see two marks. One on the top gear and one on the bottom. Now that makes perfect sence. Amen.

 

[racer55]

Yes the timing chain gears line up together at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock and so do the IP gears.
Do not turn the engine once you get those marks lined up-only turn the IP.

 

[Bob_wewer]

I updated the last post with a blow-up of his photo. Now I can see the marks! Thanks for helping me Racer! Now all I have to do is get the top gear in line with the bottom. I bet I find that I am off on the top gear. I neglected to line these two gears in the installation.

 

[racer55]

You should be on track now.
In the photo the marks are a bit offline, when you do yours have both sets of gears lined up exactly.

 

[Bob_wewer]

Yikes


That is what it looked like. I think my rough timing was a little too rough. Anyway it runs much better. Carcode gave me trouble and the folks over there always answer the phone and they helped me get it working.

I did the scan and TDCO was -2.48. I rotated the IP toward the passenger side quite a bit. I could not get another read other than the -2.48. I tried the relearn and I think it worked but the reading did not change even though other readings were changing. I am not sure what is going on there.

I have codes and I did make sure that I cleared them (with my handheld unit as I can't figure how to clear codes with the carcode reader. When codes were clear, no change in the TDCO.

Codes were PO303 C3MD & PO1214 ND

Now I have a thump on the right side and I am guessing that I have a bad injector as I am still throwing white smoke. The timing code is just that until I get it right. I guess until I can get the injector out and replace it with one of my array of old ones, I will not be able to make the truck run any better.

I am thinking that the carcode unit is not working because of stored codes. I am not sure. Is #3 on the passenger side toward the rear? That is where I am hearing the thud, thumping.

Anyway - Thanks for your help!

 

[racer55]

Cylinders are:
1357 drivers side
2468 passenger side

The relearn is a process for sure with carcode.
If you follow the procedure I posted on page 2 of this thread it should go just fine.
Remember you can't to tdco unless the coolant temp is above 180F and you have to use the L65 6.5 2002 option when attempting the relearn procedure.If you try using your year it likely won't work properly.

 

[Bob_wewer]

Thanks. So I continue the relearn on carcode and then reset on the pump till it gets closer to desired offset. Is that right?
I thought #3 was on that side.
I guess I have a couple bad injectors. Thanks for the info. I am waiting on a deep well. Mine must have gotten swiped or lost. I am just going to replace them all.

The thump on the right may be an after turbo leak and I am hearing #3 through the exhaust.

Much obliged,
Bob

 

[racer55]

I think you are on track,just not sure of the terms you are using.

 

[Bob_wewer]

Sorry

I am just a little confused about the Tdc relearn. The engine stumbles after I do the relearn but the number does not change from -2.48.

Does pHysically moving the pump change the tdco number?

What is the difference between relearn and physically turning the pump?

Thanks
Bob

 

[racer55]

You do have to physically move the pump to change the TDCO value,then do the relearn to see what the new value is.
In your case move the IP about 1/2 -1 mm towards the passenger side.
then perform the relearn again.
The relearn command is used to find out where the IP timing is physically in relation to the pistons.

 

[Bob_wewer]

Wow. 1/2 to 1 mm? I moved it a lot more than that. I will try the relearn again. After I moved it I could not get the new reading. I am guessing cause of codes but the sea light was not on but codes showed up and light came on after I tried the relearn.

Thanks for your help