How often will you be towing? That's the big question.

Just considering the fuel mileage - It sounds like you plan to save money by not investing in diesel but if you are going to tow a lot then you will make up the extra expense in lower overall fuel costs for the diesel. It may take a couple of years to get it back but it will eventually pay out if you tow enough. Plus you'll have much better towing performance. In short, if you are going to tow that kind of load on a regular basis then find a way to afford the diesel.

 

How often will you be towing? That's the big question.

Just considering the fuel mileage - It sounds like you plan to save money by not investing in diesel but if you are going to tow a lot then you will make up the extra expense in lower overall fuel costs for the diesel.

Potentially twice a month... but for light loads. Truly heavy loads (pulling 10k) would be a few times per year. Rare enough that I don't want to spend thousands more for a Cummins or a Ford SD.

A turbo would be planned, even if I could get 210hp with headers/cam/intake i'm worried about the altitude power drop and EGT's pushing fuel in thin air. I'd use a 6.2 with the 6.5 stock turbo parts simply because 6.2's seem more common/less expensive.

My biggest money saver will be hoping to run Straight Vegetable Oil in the future - i'm more willing to experiment with that on a 6.2 than a more expensive Cummins too. And from what i've researched IDI's are more tolerant of SVO even if there are direct injection engines which SEEM to work well so far... very few have run 100k on SVO to know yet but I plan to.

4.10's or even 4.56's are expected if i'm going to do 10k. Thanks for the advice, I guess maybe I can consider the 6.2's afterall.


So what do people think the safe tow limit of stock 6.2's would be for reference, assuming 4.10 or 4.56 gears? Would 7000lbs be too much?

 

I wouldn't do a 6.2 unless it's a turbo conversion. A good 6.5 (stay away from the known problematic block years) will do 10K just fine - I do 10-12K every weekend all summer long - dig through my pics and sig, and checkout one of my big trips (yep, into the mountains out west) at http://gowest.oshawapilot.ca.

A well setup 6.5 and a 4.11 geared truck will do your calling without any issues so long as you are willing to work within it's limits. It's not going to be a Duramax or perform/pull like one, but they're simple engines to work on and are reliable when setup well...and they WILL pull a lot more than many people think. One of our members (who passed away) was pulling a 16K fiver with his.

 

In the RV world, They always quote minimum HP requirement as 1 hp per 100lbs.

My RV follows that rule.

So your 210hp should be able to move 21,000lbs total weight (truck, trailer, fuel, passengers etc)

If your truck is 7k and trailer is 10k plus 1k for other stuff you are pushing 18k Thats close but should be doable.


JMHO

 

Shouldn't that rule considering torque? There are thousands of semi trucks with 450hp motors grossing 80k

 

Sounds about right. With my CCLBDRW and two trailers behind me I gross in around the 20,000lb-22,000lb (Depending on what gear I'm carrying at any point in time) range. With a freshly rebuilt 6.5 putting out basically stock HP (Maybe a little more) it's adequate for the job.

It won't rip up grades on cruise control, but it gets the job done.

 

What ever you go with make sure you have the 4:10's for a gear,makes all the difference in the world when towing.

 

gear will make all the difference. you can have a ton of HP and gears so high you can't get anywhere

Shouldn't that rule considering torque? There are thousands of semi trucks with 450hp motors grossing 80k

thats probably so they can sell big trailers to gassers with low torque lol

my cummins only runs about 250-270 hp, it pulls 11 k lb like nothing and i have to keep looking back to see if the trailer is there, it was a much different pull around 190 hp

 

I think you're asking the question the wrong way. 210hp is enough to move a 10k lbs trailer around, yes. The question is, are you willing to go slow enough to allow the gearing to let that 210hp get it done on big grades and is your truck capable of 210hp for long periods of time without any issues (EGT, coolant temp, oil temp, trans temp, etc.)? There's a difference between being able to move the trailer and going WOT for a few minutes up a grade.

If you're going on HP I've seen gassers with about 210hp move 10k lbs but they overheat on every grade and the trans hates them (lots of shifts and torque converter locking/unlocking means a lot of heat).

They say that when it comes to towing overkill is always the way to go, just keep that in mind. I never, ever go WOT towing and I like it that way.

-TJ

 

I think you're asking the question the wrong way. 210hp is enough to move a 10k lbs trailer around, yes. The question is, are you willing to go slow enough to allow the gearing to let that 210hp get it done on big grades and is your truck capable of 210hp for long periods of time without any issues

Actually that's EXACTLY what i'm asking, i'm aware the power should be enough (if someone else was moving 16,000lbs total vehicle+trailer up 6% grade at 68mph then clearly it was enough) but i'm wondering how reliable the 6.2 would be during those loads, so I was wondering what kind of experience others have doing heavy loads more regularily. Even though i'd only do a few times per year max I wouldn't want a breakdown a thousand miles from home.

I wouldn't go with the 4.56 gearing - it's really too short for being useful as a commuter vehicle the 95% of the time you're not pulling. Even the 4.11's are too high - at 62MPH (What I cruise at all the time) my 6.5 is above it's peak fuel economy range by a few hundred RPM, and you pay the price. With 4.56's you'd be screaming

What would be just about right for economy, 3.73's? 62mph seems just fine to me. Even 55mph is probably fine for me, 10k is heavy and I wont be doing it often enough to be used to it, slower is safer. Do you tow in overdrive or is that 1:1 ratios? One reason i'd consider even steeper gears is possibly having steep overdrives to go with them, one potential tow vehicle might have a T-56 transmission which has either a 0.62 or even a 0.50. Another reason might be if I end up with less than 210hp afterall fearing it's too hard on the engine to sustain, or if I don't go full throttle uphill fearing the same but consider the power more reserve...

 

I wouldn't go with the 4.56 gearing - it's really too short for being useful as a commuter vehicle the 95% of the time you're not pulling. Even the 4.11's are too high - at 62MPH (What I cruise at all the time) my 6.5 is above it's peak fuel economy range by a few hundred RPM, and you pay the price. With 4.56's you'd be screaming - the engine won't care, but your wallet will...and I'm not confident that the difference in pulling power would be that great in the end.

A turbo'd 6.2 isn't that dramatically different in power versus a stock 6.5, so by that guideline you should just consider what the 6.5 guys are pulling and go from there. 7000 is nothing to be concerned about in the least, and as I mentioned in my last reply, there have been guys pulling 15K+ with their 6.5's. LOTS of guys are pulling 10K+ with them on a regular basis, myself included.

That's my setup - 30' 5er with my 2 Jetskis behind it.

 

Based on your goal I would find a 7.3 Ford and be done with it.

 

I say if ur asking can I do it with this much and such then the answer no. If a guy on a chevy forum told u to get a 7.3 that says something

Sent from my HTCEVODesign4G using AutoGuide.Com Free App

 

Given your username I'd suggest your just a little biased.

As due gearing, go with 4.11's. 6.5 trucks are readily found with them and they're perfect for the speed ranges you mention. 3.73's will not yield a result you will be happy with at the higher weights and you'll experience EGT issues.

 

If you can keep the engine cool and EGT's in check you can reliably run a 6.2/6.5 at 100% power for long periods with no issue.

The key is gauges. A pyro is essential and a reliable (aka, more accurate vs the dashboard) coolant temp gauge is also handy. I use a dashboard OBD scanner to read iat and CTS from the ECM, as well as monitor engine load percent, etc etc.

Water injection is also another big help. With mine running this summer I pulled some long and nasty grades with the go-pedal held hard and fast right to the floorboards this summer and never overheated or exceeded EGT safe ranges.

You need to do your homework to accomplish that though. Taking an old truck all stock with a worn out rad, stock exhaust, inop fan clutch etc etc and putting it in the same scenario is a recipe for problems, without doubt.

A 6.x truck will NEVER pefrorm like a newer diesel so don't expect it to. You won't be able to put the cruise on when pulling heavy and sitting back to relax - you have to drive the truck, work it manually to its limits, and be prepared to slow down on the hills....because on the big ones, you will.

I've been up and over the Rockies with my 6.5 and trailer, as well as over greybull pass in the bighorn mountains east of Yellowstone - I have a picture of us creating the nearly 10,000' summit. We didn't set any time records, but I passed a few gassers, and we did just fine.

 

I tend to agree about the Ford 7.3 as well... and I'm obviously a Chevy guy! When I worked concrete for a buddy's company they used all Fords. We had a few 7.3Ls and they were really good trucks. They towed ~8k every day from day one with another 500-1000lbs in the bed. The trans is the weak link for sure, but if you treat it right it should last only towing 10k occasionally. We did have one 7.3L truck that went through a few transmissions but it was my buddy's personal truck in addition to being a work truck and he had some mods on it (tuner, full exhaust, bigger turbo, etc.) and he beat the ever loving hell out of it. These were all Super Duties btw, but a 7.3L PSD in a OBS is a great buy too (just be sure it's not the earlier 7.3 IDI or whatever). Once my buddy started getting 6.0L and later trucks it was nothing but trouble. They've downsized (like most folks in construction) and just have a '99 7.3L with about a gazillion work miles on it that is basically all original and works great and they're '08 6.4L that's been pretty good to them (it is still a double duty work/daily driver and also gets 5th wheel duty with their ~33' Toy Hauler).

What sort of budget are you actually working with, that might help as well.

-TJ

 

Not really biased actually my first truck was a 94 cummins auto only reason I traded was cause of the junk auto . I got a 96 powerstroke built basically how I would build it with a built auto for the cummins also owned and traded a 6.2 burb for a 6.5 mechical dually 5speed so not really I look at all trucks with a open mind