Diesel Place banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
"Ram Heavy Duty Cummins "600" is also capable of zero-throttle launches, enabling smooth drive-offs under load with the 6-speed manual transmission."


This was in a press release under the topic Hoot started discussing the rumor of a new transmission and Cummins 600 engine.


Reading it puts lots of thoughts in my mind. The little 555ft. lb. Cummins I now have does that and more. I just never knew if it was "too much" to include that feature in my praise of this Dodge/Cummins package. Here's how mine works.


I can start out in 1st through 3rd gear without touching the throttle, even under load. When slowing down in higher gears this truck will just not stall or buck. It just gets into some kind of computer control mode that throttles the engine automatically. It won't stall.


What is great about this is you can twist around while backing up large trailers and just use your left foot on the clutch. There is no need to throttle and it's like having an automatic that you throttle with the left foot. GREAT feature. I just did not know what to call it.


"Zero Throttle Launches" also means I don't use the throttle for parking lot maneuvers in any direction. I can also start out on steep hills with no worry of drifting back by keeping my right foot on the brake until the clutch catches and starts the rig to move. It's a manual transmission 'automatic' and I have been lovin' it.


WOW! I'm no longer going to be reluctant to praise this truck. The Cummins has torque in spades, quiet operation, simplicity, economy, ease of maintainance, and a history of reliability far superior to any other light truck diesel. The Dodge truck is far more stable, rugged in suspension, comfortable under towing conditions, higher, easier to operate controls, better paint, larger tires, and is just a far superior package compared to the GM/Duramax for the experience I have had so far.


There - I said it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,610 Posts
On second thought....


I'll save it for a rainy dayEdited by: Max Power
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Max Power, I read your post before you deleted it. My Chevy did the same thing.


MikeyB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,610 Posts
Maybe so, not in an arguing mood.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,262 Posts
That's great Mel

Hope things stay down the rosie path for you ..... If things should wilt let us know also ,as we know not everything is as purfect as it seems .... After all your truck is just a virgin ..... Wait till the rattles begin .....

How did you feel in your first few GM Duramax tows prior to any unseen issues,remember ??

Mac
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Mackin,


I loved the Duramax for 117,000 miles. My first out-west tow did have a fuel filter plug and a premature shut-down to limp mode. That was expensive as neither I nor the dealer in Kingman, AZ knew what to do. After that I loved the truck and, like the blind men and the elephant, thought it was just fine for towing.


After it became "unrepairable" I still tried to buy another one. GM loyalty is hard to rationalize. This Dodge/Cummins has really been an unexpected "eye-opener" so far. I just never had a truck that towed so effortlessly. I was so stupid that I did not even know towing could be easier than the Duramax allowed. It has been a pleasant surprise as I had, like so many on here, preconceived prejudices against the Dodge. I too wait for all these things that are 'going to happen'. And...I will be the first to tell you if they occur.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
My Allison has Zero throttle takeoff


Glad you're happy Mal although how do you figure GM went from 2% market share three years ago to 30% today in diesel? Not because of people with experiences like you.

At the same time Dodge went from #2 to #3 in diesel sales. How can that be? Give it time before jumping for joy. (been guilty in the past myself)

Happy shifting


Edited by: hoot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hoot,


You da man. I knew nothing about your statistics and am quite surprised. Do not know why but have an idea.


Dodge has a bad reputation. I bought into it for years. Still kind of believe it will be bad, except for the Cummins.


GM has a great reputation. I have never heard or read of any "Consumer Reports" discussing the horrors or the Duramax fuel system failures. There are very few people on the internet - like me? - taking the time and the flack to tell people just how bad the Duramax is. People just don't know. That could be reasons why they buy the Duramax?


Most people do not tow much with their trucks. Most people do not put a lot of mileage on their trucks. For them the Duramax is a perfectly acceptable choice. For all who tow on a regular basis, and I mean towing heavy loads on a commercial scale, the Duramax is a nightmare. I am not telling you anything you don't already know. It's just that so many can't relate to the problems in the Duramax design that cause all the high mileage failures.


Forget Brokers. Remember HD90Rider? He tows all the time and did have over 250,000 on his Duramax last I heard. He also had a variation of all the troubles and expenses I had.


Truck stops are where I live at night. There I spend evenings with other commercial haulers. We share our experiences with the trucks. The Powerstrokes often go high mileage - 300,000 or more. The lose transmissions, cam sensors and an occasional injector and pump. Some of the new 6.0's DO work. Many have been major dissapointments and the owners switched to Cummins.


The Cummins lose automatic 47RE's around 150,000 miles and lift pumps about the same time. The rest of the package often runs upwards of a million miles.


The Duramax is always spoken of as a real mess. Simple as that. Those that have tried, like me, bailed out. Others we talk with just love their Druamax's but always they are recreational haulers with their own trailers on vacation and have low mileage.


The Cummins is the standard to measure commercial pickup hauling against. It's that way for a reason. Maybe the truck does suck? But remember, the motor sure does pull day after year after 100's of thousands of miles. Broken down along the road time after time with no real prospect of repair is far from fun and reduculously expensive.


Then there is the issue of mechanics at GM dealerships all over the country and clueless on how to fix them. Labor and parts prices are outrageous while they fool around hoping to stumble on the solutions. We don't all have the luxury of breaking down near Eric Merchant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Just to add to Capt. If a Dodge dealer can't fix the motor, if you have problem, you can take it to Cummins. They are located all across the country along major highways.


Capt. you must be able to read my mind. Like you said, the GM's maybe nice for weekend recreation haulers, or people that don't keep their trucks long, but if you are going to be using your truck for a living and hauling heavy loads day in and day out the Cummins/Dodge is the bench mark that others are compared with. (If only Dodge would make a crew cab or 4500-5500!!!!)


I know most here think Dodge is a POS, to bad you are missing out on a good product if you need a heavy duty high milage hauler. They are not perfect, but they have proven that they can go the distance.


My personal take: GM was not going after that focuss group but more for the rec. hauler/leasing person that trades up every 36-48 months or 50-70K miles. Makes more sense (larger group/high vehicle turn over=more sales) then going after the people that keeps their trucks for 300K-1 million miles.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Mal,

I don't think there are that many out there using the DMax for hard commercial hauling. I would more like to hear from fleet owners than single individuals about their experiences.

I ran into a guy a couple of weeks ago at a filling station. He had a nice black Chevy dually 6.5TD. Asked me how I liked my truck. Said he was thinking about getting one but some buddy of his up in NY that does commercial told him to stay away, they're having major problems with the aluminum heads. I said "Really, I've been exposed to a lot of information on the status of the Dmax over the years and head problems has so far not been a major issue". He insisted.

He hauls with his 6.5 TD and loves it. After an extended conversation, I walked away with a strong impression that he know absolutely nothing about diesels.

I found that to be true of many commercial truck drivers too. Half of them don't even know what engine is in their truck. I don't say that to draw negativism toward truck drivers.... they just don't seem to care what's under the hood.

Why do you discount Broker's experiences? Doesn't he own Dmaxes with great success?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Kinze said:
My personal take: GM was not going after that focuss group but more for the rec. hauler/leasing person that trades up every 36-48 months or 50-70K miles. Makes more sense (larger group/high vehicle turn over=more sales) then going after the people that keeps their trucks for 300K-1 million miles.

I believe the same. GM has turned the 1/2 ton pickup into a soccer mom vehicle. Can't even carry a 1/2 ton in the bed without it bringing the truck to its knees. After 5 years of trying to use my Chevy as a truck ended up de-arching the rear springs.



I don't know where the Dodge's tarnished reputation comes from. I have friends driving Dodge pickups that seems to very reliable, they do get crappy mileage (5.2, 5.9 gasser) and the common problem is weak intake gaskets (GM 5.7 has the same problem). And the Dodges seems to be much tighter at 80,000 miles than my Chevy did at 25,000 miles.


So as a gamble I switched to Dodge. I did test drive a Chevy 2500HD extended cab D/A LT as a comparison. It had the typical GM sloppy brakes and steering, just like the 1/2 ton. I wasn't impressed with the truck at all. The Dodge is more truck like, especially the ride, but the brakes are fantastic, and the steering is razor sharp, the handling is impressive for a heavy truck. And as a test I put 2k lbs of feed corn in the bed, and the truck acted like it wasn't even back there, other than making the ride smoother. I have 6500 miles on the clock now and time will tell, but so far I'm very happy with my decision.


BTW, I have a '03 Dodge 2500 Quad cab SWB 4x2 HO/6spd/3.73 Laramie with every option.


MikeyB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hoot,


We agree again. Quite a few of the people who literally 'live' in their trucks do not know much about them. They also do not participate in any kind of internet information and forums. That is both good and bad for me when I speak with them.


It's good in that they mostly do not have the prejudices we have after hearing reports of failures. They only relate what their own history is. I like that.


It's bad in that they often do very poor maintainance and literally run their trucks into the ground. They also fall prey to rumor...ie: the aluminum head issue. Then they quote what they "heard" to me. I dispell that issue but rumors die hard, both positive and negative ones.


I still feel Brokers is a scam. See...."rumors die hard". He cost me over $100 to buy and carry around an extra belt and tensioner because he said they always broke. At the end, my original belt and tensioner were still like new. Then I read all the 'other things' and drew my own conclusions. Hd90rider was the only high mileage operator I believed. To this day I have yet to meet a single Duramax operator with high mileage that tows on a regular basis. Not one. I have met some who claimed to have tried and they no longer were running that truck. It might just be my circumstances but the next high mileage Duramax operator I speak directly with will be the first.


Remember, "high mileage" and towing are the keys. When you tow lots of fuel goes through the motor for the indicated mileage and there is far more drive-line strain that solo or light recreational haulers get into.


Read what Kinz just said at the end and I agree, based on my personal experiences. I also realize that I know just a tiny microcosm of the whole issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
994 Posts
Capt,


BTW - Good post from Cummins on fuel filtration and fuel injection systems. At least the individual wrote what his view was instead of some "corporate bs". Some of those words should be included in every owners manual (Dodge, GM & Ford)


I think what really came out in the above posts is that there are many different uses for trucks produced by the manufactures. People use these things for construction, personal transportation, farming, recreational towing, hot rodding, soccer mom vehicles, heavy towing, delivery, picking up Christmas trees, whatever,,,,,,, It is impossible for one truck to be the best at doing them all. It looks like you have found the engine/truck that fits your needs (high mileage, heavy towing). What makes these forums entertaining is all the debate on which brand does the best in which category. (There does seem to be a concensus on different forums that the Cummins engine excels at high mileage, heavy towing.)


I still feel the biggest unknown moving forward for you is the new fuel injection system. The DMAX and Cummins fuel systems have a similar heritage, which is Bosch. While the injection systems may not look exactly the same on the outside, if you look at the internal workings they are probably very similar (this is just my opinion as an engineer). I also think the Bosch fuel injection system can go the distance, given good fuel filtration. Cummins is most likely more aggressive on filtration (than GM) given their heritage of building engines to go 500K miles as you and others mention above. The remainder of the engine package seems well suited for your needs of pulling heavy loads with high frontal areas.


Keep us posted as you roll-up more miles. By the time I'm ready for a truck replacement in early 2006, you should be around 250K miles
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Captmal...

In that case... with your last post... I don't think we have enough to go on at this time. Your personal experience and the experiences of the masses, with regards to the Dmax and commercial operation are two different things. I personally believe it's still too early to make brand switching decisions at this stage.

Especially when the other engines are untested for the long haul.
Edited by: hoot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
"Especially when the other engines are untested for the long haul"


I think the Capt tried to make the long haul with a Dmax but found out that it couldn't make it. He also mentioned that others like him have found the same thing.


I guess if GM paid him to be a beta tester maybe he might have stuck it out and not gotten stuck with the bills he tallied up.


If I were him, and I am not, I would go with a company that is tested in making long lasting engines designed around comericial use not a GM joint jap. start up company.


Look at the problems Duramaxs are having, reguarding injectorsand its fuel system, on trucks over 100K. GM makes them to go to warrenty and thats it.


Like I said before, they are nice engines (duramax) as long as it is under warrenty. After that.....you couldn't give me one, especially if it needed injectors



Hoot, out of curiosity, do you or any of your family work for GM?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Kinze said:
Hoot, out of curiosity, do you or any of your family work for GM?
Nope. No affiliation whatsoever. None of my family does either. One brother drives a Dodge gasser.

Do you own a Dmax?Edited by: hoot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Hoot,


Cool.


You could be my idol but I learned long ago never to worship gods with feet of clay.


Maybe I ment you could be my idle?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Looks like it's time to exit the Dodge room.... give this a year or so. Believe me, I have no wishes for anybody to have failures. Edited by: hoot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Hoot,


This forum needs more Dodge owners active and entering this room. It seems that most posting here are Duramax owners. Thank goodness for that or it would be quite inactive.


I'll keep trying.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
I agree. The more the merrier.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top