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I was told today by a Commercial Vehicle Service Manager of a Chevrolet Dealer that "fuel suppliers are not winterizing the Ultra Low Sulfer Fuel"... that they can not do so and still meet the fuel spec.

Hence much more gelling than they have ever seen...

????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 

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Well we finally got winter around here. Not supposed to get out of the 30's all week. 8* tonight. That and the ULSD just recently started showing up around here. Guess I will find out how well the stanadyne and 2 stroke oil works. How can they not winterize it? Many places get cold for long periods of time.
 

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Id believe that there not winterizing fuel. My truck "i think" gelled up today. We hit -22 blow air temp. Friday when I put fuel in the truck I put 1/2 of a bottle of power service, the white stuff in it. 1 bottle should treat 300 gallons, I put 1/2 of it in my truck. Saturday night it was running kind of sluggish Didnt have much punch to it, so I put 1/2 a bottle of Howes in it. (mind you this is in what a 30 gallon tank.) Today on the way to work I let the truck warm up for pry 25 min. It had kicked off of high idle so it was warm. I figureed plenty of anti gel, and plenty of warm up to try to get some warm circulated fuel back into the tank. About 10 miles down the road lost all power, wouldnt go past 2000 rpm, check engine light on. I got 2 bottles of diesel 911 out from under my seat and dumped them in(1 bottle should treat 32 gallons, at this point im at 3/4 of a tank. Truck was still running like a dog when I got to work, woudnt run over 2000rpm and 40mph. I left it run all morning, and by the time I went out to to go to lunch, it was running fine, all the power and revvs i wanted, went to the stealer after work and pulled code p081 low rail pressure, and he cleared it. Stealer said they had over 30 durmaxes in the shop this morning. NO 6.5's (he said alot of park districts aroudn the dealer ahd 6.5's and either no problems or they werent trying to runt hem today. The stealer told me duramaxes suck for 3 reasons in the cold (and I can see why.) 1. Duramaxes dont have a lift pump, even if the fuel is just a touch thicker it has to suck that all the way from the tank and w/no lift pump (like the 6.5's had one on the frame rail) they ahve a tough time if the fuel gets just a touch thicker. 2. They suck because the 6.5's and 6.2's had a fuel heater on the filter/filter housing to warm the fuel up if it was a touch thick. 3.If you gel up, you cant put fuel in the filter and move it, get it running or get it farther off the road limp it home. These new d max filters you cant keep a squirt can or anyting in the tool box of straight #1 and suck the old stuff out, and fill the filter up w/ your squirt can and get farthe roff the road or home. Thee old ones you could fill the filter up and do that, these new one you cant. Anyone come up w/a way to combat the 3 above problems. Ive been thinking about a fass system and the dealer I talked to say a fass system woudl take care of no lift pump, he said itd pump tar out of a bucket and it woudl get gelled fuel up to and through the filter no problem. Anyone?
 

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Been running the ULSF for a while now and it's been around -5* w/ a wind chill of -20 for the last week and haven't had a problem yet.
 

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thejdman04;1574360; said:
Id believe that there not winterizing fuel. My truck "i think" gelled up today. We hit -22 blow air temp. Friday when I put fuel in the truck I put 1/2 of a bottle of power service, the white stuff in it. 1 bottle should treat 300 gallons, I put 1/2 of it in my truck. Saturday night it was running kind of sluggish Didnt have much punch to it, so I put 1/2 a bottle of Howes in it. (mind you this is in what a 30 gallon tank.) Today on the way to work I let the truck warm up for pry 25 min. It had kicked off of high idle so it was warm. I figureed plenty of anti gel, and plenty of warm up to try to get some warm circulated fuel back into the tank. About 10 miles down the road lost all power, wouldnt go past 2000 rpm, check engine light on. I got 2 bottles of diesel 911 out from under my seat and dumped them in(1 bottle should treat 32 gallons, at this point im at 3/4 of a tank. Truck was still running like a dog when I got to work, woudnt run over 2000rpm and 40mph. I left it run all morning, and by the time I went out to to go to lunch, it was running fine, all the power and revvs i wanted, went to the stealer after work and pulled code p081 low rail pressure, and he cleared it. Stealer said they had over 30 durmaxes in the shop this morning. NO 6.5's (he said alot of park districts aroudn the dealer ahd 6.5's and either no problems or they werent trying to runt hem today. The stealer told me duramaxes suck for 3 reasons in the cold (and I can see why.) 1. Duramaxes dont have a lift pump, even if the fuel is just a touch thicker it has to suck that all the way from the tank and w/no lift pump (like the 6.5's had one on the frame rail) they ahve a tough time if the fuel gets just a touch thicker. 2. They suck because the 6.5's and 6.2's had a fuel heater on the filter/filter housing to warm the fuel up if it was a touch thick. 3.If you gel up, you cant put fuel in the filter and move it, get it running or get it farther off the road limp it home. These new d max filters you cant keep a squirt can or anyting in the tool box of straight #1 and suck the old stuff out, and fill the filter up w/ your squirt can and get farthe roff the road or home. Thee old ones you could fill the filter up and do that, these new one you cant. Anyone come up w/a way to combat the 3 above problems. Ive been thinking about a fass system and the dealer I talked to say a fass system woudl take care of no lift pump, he said itd pump tar out of a bucket and it woudl get gelled fuel up to and through the filter no problem. Anyone?




Sounds to me like you have too much power service in a 30 gallon tank.
 

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My '05 gelled up today. Air temp got down to around -10F and wind chill temps were -30F. Finally got the truck inside (with the loader tractor) and will have to change the filter in the AM.
 

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problem is a lack of ultra low sulfur kerosene to blend with the ulsd fuel.. some places have it, some don't and aren't winterizing, and some are using high sulfur kerosene because that's all they have.
 

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addicted;1574443; said:
Sounds to me like you have too much power service in a 30 gallon tank.
Can you elaborate????????? I put 1/2 bottle in which should treat 150 gallons, when I put in 20 gal of fuel. I put in extra because I knew a cold snap was coming and I did ask attendant waht the feul was good for cetane etc and she had no clue. It was from a frequented truck stop so should be current fuel and good fuel but I had no clue so I put in extra knowing it was gonna get super cold (from 20's to -20's, when your drive 55mph cools down fuel real bad and quick) so I put some extra in. Never known or heard that too much is bad. Everyone Ive talked to say you cant hurt anything by putting in extra, jsut costs alot, and wont hurt anything at all. Many guys say when they change fuel fitlers on clogged semis etc sometimes all they have is mpower service or howes and pour that directly into the filter fill the whole filter w/that stuff and never heard of one blowing up because of that. Like I said I put that much in, running sluggish so added some more howes which cleared it up until this morning which i put in more pwoer service red bottle. I think I may have gotton some straight number 2 although the pump was marked winter blend.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Power Service

addicted;1574443; said:
Sounds to me like you have too much power service in a 30 gallon tank.
According to Mfgr (Power Service) you can not put too much in... Now I am sure an extreme of 50/50 might be too much but... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
LowNox;1574473; said:
problem is a lack of ultra low sulfur kerosene to blend with the ulsd fuel.. some places have it, some don't and aren't winterizing, and some are using high sulfur kerosene because that's all they have.
This is easy to believe - also some are adding additives - IE GE Betz is added by a fuel company in Wash. State...

Just sucks to be on the short end... I gelled with fuel from a FastTrack that sells a lot to big trucks and from a Mobile station... MOBILE - I paid the extra 11 cents per gallon ASSuming they would do it right... GE Betz ReFlow got me going yesterday... Dealer suggested HEET - and said that PS 911 sucked...
 

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rags963;1574119; said:
I was told today by a Commercial Vehicle Service Manager of a Chevrolet Dealer that "fuel suppliers are not winterizing the Ultra Low Sulfer Fuel"... that they can not do so and still meet the fuel spec.

Hence much more gelling than they have ever seen...

????????????????????????????????????????????????????


I am positive that where I live they have the winter blend. Talk in length with the owner of the station where I fuel up. He stated that his winter blend with the new ULSD was good to at least -11F. I have driven diesel for over 30 years and when it gets as cold as some are now seeing, there will be problems with fuel gelling. Use a good additive and hope for the best.


The Kerosene that they use to make the blend must also meet the new standards, and maybe where you are at they can not get the kero. But they can be made to winter blend and meet the EPA standards.
 

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-27 yesterday here in minnesota, no gelling issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
rtquig;1575390; said:
I am positive that where I live they have the winter blend. Talk in length with the owner of the station where I fuel up. He stated that his winter blend with the new ULSD was good to at least -11F. I have driven diesel for over 30 years and when it gets as cold as some are now seeing, there will be problems with fuel gelling. Use a good additive and hope for the best.


The Kerosene that they use to make the blend must also meet the new standards, and maybe where you are at they can not get the kero. But they can be made to winter blend and meet the EPA standards.
Just read on Howe's web site that the ULSD has more wax...
http://www.howeslube.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/429
"Additionally, it has higher wax content and is expected to have increased problems in cold weather."

So more antigel is probably needed than prior years...
 

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I've been running diesels for over 20 years - currently LBZ, previously Ford, M-B, VW, - always add 15 to 20% kerosene when the weather gets cold. Helps a lot with preventing gelling problems.
 

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Unblended ULSD clouds at +10F. Stations should be blending (and distribution stations should be adding lubricity additives). But there are a LOT of things that SHOULD be happening these days and I'm not so trusting. I add FPPF Total Power to every drop of fuel BEFORE the swap to ULSD and I'm also adding 2-stroke oil at 1:200 since the swap to ULSD. Peace of mind for me.
 

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rags963;1575368; said:
According to Mfgr (Power Service) you can not put too much in... Now I am sure an extreme of 50/50 might be too much but... :)

White bottle is a cetane booster. I would think you could add too much cetane.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
MGlickLBZ;1576121; said:
White bottle is a cetane booster. I would think you could add too much cetane.
I would agree - just passing along what they said... I assume they do mean that within reason you can not add too much... as in twice the recommended... or twice the amount needed...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Idle_Chatter;1575612; said:
Unblended ULSD clouds at +10F. Stations should be blending (and distribution stations should be adding lubricity additives). But there are a LOT of things that SHOULD be happening these days and I'm not so trusting. I add FPPF Total Power to every drop of fuel BEFORE the swap to ULSD and I'm also adding 2-stroke oil at 1:200 since the swap to ULSD. Peace of mind for me.
After gelling with Power Srevice White bottle I am switching to Stanadyne... Anyone use their Lubricity Additive?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
BigRedD/A;1575398; said:
-27 yesterday here in minnesota, no gelling issues.
What are you adding? Schools here are closed because they can not keep busses running... Most assuming ULSD and not enough additive... your fuel supplier must do a nice job...
 

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-33C and using ULSD. No one having problems up here.
 
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