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Discussion Starter #1
I know it's a lot newer, and we probably have not had enough time to tell about the long term service of the Duramax yet, but I still wonder. I want a truck mainly for long life. A lot of people tell me the Cummins is the best engine for that, but I still don't know. It was designed a long time ago, and it seems like some of the Duramax's newer technology would help it. I have heard of some already with over 400,000 on them, so I wonder which would be better for a long term engine.
 

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I think the core is as solid as it gets. The deisgn is not as mature as the Cummins, but I think just as good, and with every incremental upgrade, I think the future is Duramax.





Bill
 

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Boys I think the Duramax is going to be just fine.
 

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Just ask my uncle and his son about the longevity of the all mighty cummins.

97 12valve, 5 speed
5th gear went out (nut holding gear on shaft backed off)
5th gear went out (nut holding gear on shaft backed off)
headgasket
headgasket
tranny went out (only had 4th gear)

98.5 24 valve, 6 speed
burnt piston (scored #1 cylinder)
headgasket
cracked block (the famous #53 block)

this is just the major stuffEdited by: mtomac
 

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What good is the Cummins longevity if the truck its in is a piece of $h!7? Its only as good as the weakest link, which in Dodges case seems to be everything except the engine.Edited by: maynard9089
 

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Deep Skirt block design ; Fracture split connecting rods; Just to name a couple. The DMAX is a awesome built engine. As the miles roll on a lot of folks will come to appreciate it. I have a friend who drives Hot Shot and he is nearing 200K. I am tenatively watching his progress as he packs these hardworking miles on rather quickly. I know of one Dodge that is not providing good service. (Nothing but trouble) But I can't speak for them all. And all brands can break.
 

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Well check this little "nugget" out!!


http://www.osti.gov/fcvt/deer2000/beckerpa.pdf


I came across this item while searching for something else - I can't wait to supply this information to a Dodge Boy the next time he starts the "junk aluminum heads" smack! Seems that Cummins has been touting the BENEFITS of not only aluminum heads but ALUMINUM ENGINES since 2000!
Take this link to the TDP and War Rooms!
 

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With 15 Million Diesel engines under their belt, I think they have learned a thing or two.

http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/press/2001/p_1205.html

Isuzu first started to mass-produce diesel engines in 1938 at the Kawasaki Factory. It has taken the company 63 years to reach a total production figure of 15 million units, after expanding its production bases to Thailand, Indonesia, China, Poland and North America in recent years. The total number of diesel engines produced by Isuzu passed the 5 million units mark in 1985 and the 10 million units mark in 1994. The 15 million units mark has been reached in this, the company's 64th year of diesel engine production.

Fujisawa Factory <December 1962>* 9,110,000 units
Kawasaki Factory <August 1938> 2,970,000 units
Tochigi Factory <August 1990> 770,000 units
Hokkaido Factory <May 1987> 1,720,000 units
ISPOL (Tychy, Poland) <June 1999> 340,000 units
DMAX (Ohio, USA) <July 2000> 90,000 units


Edited by: Kendall69
 

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You can make any truck last forever if you replace enough parts. In the case of Dod#e the Cummins will out last the rest of the truck 4 to 1. I have owned one Dod#e two Fords four Jeeps and 8 GM trucks. I have owned over 40 automobiles. The Dodge beyond a doubt was the worse excuse for a truck I have ever known. I wouldn't buy another one if it had a Rolls engine with a lifetime Warranty on it.


Thats my story and Im stickin to it.
 

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Kendall69 said:
With 15 Million Diesel engines under their belt, I think they have learned a thing or two.

http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/press/2001/p_1205.html

Isuzu first started to mass-produce diesel engines in 1938 at the Kawasaki Factory. It has taken the company 63 years to reach a total production figure of 15 million units, after expanding its production bases to Thailand, Indonesia, China, Poland and North America in recent years. The total number of diesel engines produced by Isuzu passed the 5 million units mark in 1985 and the 10 million units mark in 1994. The 15 million units mark has been reached in this, the company's 64th year of diesel engine production.

Fujisawa Factory <December 1962>* 9,110,000 units
Kawasaki Factory <August 1938> 2,970,000 units
Tochigi Factory <August 1990> 770,000 units
Hokkaido Factory <May 1987> 1,720,000 units
ISPOL (Tychy, Poland) <June 1999> 340,000 units
DMAX (Ohio, USA) <July 2000> 90,000 units

These stats are interesting, but a little dated. The D-Max is over 400,000 units now. (Maybe 500,000+) So I know the others are higher also. And besides that, Isuzu is the number one Diesel engine manufacturer in the world.


I am at 54,600+ as I type this, and if I don`t get at least 250,000 more miles before trading up, I will be looking at the other two (Maybe 3 or even 4 by then) brands of diesel equiped trucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Durabill-- What year Dodge did you have? Was it a recent model truck? I hear that a lot, even from some of the same people that say the cummins is the best engine. Form looking at the new Dodges, I don't really see that they are more cheaply built than the Chevys or Fords, but I guess looking cheap and using cheap parts that fail early can be two different things.


That link about the aluminum Cummins engines was interesting. I took it that they were only trying the aluminum for weight reduction, and I really think thats the only reason for the aluminum heads in the Duramax. I'm not saying they are worse, they have definitely proven that there is nothing wrong with them, but I just don't think they were used because they were better for long life or strength reasons. I don't think Isuzu uses them in their other truck engines. I think they needed to save some weight, so they used aluminum, and then as a side effect, they happen to conduct heat better, so they use that as an advertising point. But, I'm not saying its bad. I wouldn't be trying to decide which one I think is the best engine if I thought there was anything wrong with the Duramax heads.
 

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I've wondered whether the Duramax can last as long as a Cummins. What is it that is likely to wear out? People speak with awe about the longevity of the Cummins and I'm sure it's a fine engine, but last time I checked, it was still made with metal. The same sort of stuff used in the D'max. It has big, heavy internal parts, but that has its pluses and minuses. Heavy pistons require heavy rods, which require heavy cranks, which require robust journals and beefy bearings just to handle the stresses imposed by mass even before you address power induced stresses. The Duramax doesn't exactly seem wimpy. Has anyone ever broken a rod or lost the lower end on a D'max? There are some serious horse power and torque numbers being produced out there that ought to expose any inherent weaknesses in the units. So what will wear out on a Duramax before it would on a Cummins? Bearings, not likely with proper lubrication and maintenance. Rings? Valves? If so, why? Just asking. And by the way, not all Cummins last 1,000,000 miles.

TC
 

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My Duramax out lasted my son's Cummins. He got tired of me blowing him off on the big hill and traded it for a new LLY. Later! Frank
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thats very well said. Those are pretty much the exact same questions I have. I wonder exactly what would wear out on either engine before the other one. They both seem to be very strong engines that are not likely to break with power levels anywhere near stock. So it seems like it would come down to the one that will wear out first. So I wonder about the reasons why one would wear out before the other.
 

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One of my customers WAS a diehard Dodge Cummins man. The day before yesterday he comes into our shop. I asked him which motor oil he prefered and he wanted to know why I was asking. I told him about my new Dmax and he motioned for me to go out to the parking lot with him. There sat a new Dmax dually, I almost fell down, I asked why the change in trucks, his reply: I needed a diesel that could tow with an automatic, the dodges have not been doing the job for him lately. He pulls trailers up to 17,000 lbs. Also he is a former marine diesel mechanic!


Corsair
 

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The only archilles heel of our engines is an injector sticking open and torching a piston or leaking fuel in the crankcase and killing the turbo with the dilluted oil.
 

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I had to rent a dodge while my truck was in the shop. The dodge tranny broke with 11 miles on it. It was a brand new rental and it broke.
 

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The 5th slide of the Cummins presentation regarding fatique curves based on pressure cycles is interesting as aluminum (Al Alloy T6) fails in less cycles at high pressure than cast iron. Assuming T6 is similar to the Dmax's heads, that may not be good news for those applying max stresses to the Dmax. But the charts also show that those driving normal should experience fewer failures than a comparable cast iron head. Edited by: Ray403Dmax
 

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unless you get a lemon all of the diesels will out last the truck. get the one that looks and sounds like you want it to.
i have a perfectly good 92 diesel for sale. doubt i could get $700 for it because its wraped in poo-poo
 
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