[LCAC_Man]

Sounds like an '06 Allison TCM would integrate into my 2006 DMax van, though

Would the GMT800 Allison and controls still work in the '07 LMM van, since the van is still using the older CANBus protocol?

the 06 allison tcm would need a truck based tune along with all the wiring changes to be functional, then you have to sort out the differences at the BCM or install the truck BCM....if you run the truck BCM your odometer won't work on your IPC...The list of things you have to fix is no joke...every time someone ask me if it's worth doing I tell them "no, buy a later van with a 6l90e and sink some money in it"

 

[turboawd]

THIS is the van that really needs an Allison: 2014 GMC Savana 1 Ton 3500 Armored Car/Van | eBay

~10,385# empty weight on the curb.

That's interesting. 6 years old and still new. Lol.
I wonder who ordered that originally.

 

[DarkSideofWill]

Description says State Department... Lots of places they could have been headed as well.

 

[DarkSideofWill]

the 06 allison tcm would need a truck based tune along with all the wiring changes to be functional, then you have to sort out the differences at the BCM or install the truck BCM....if you run the truck BCM your odometer won't work on your IPC...The list of things you have to fix is no joke...every time someone ask me if it's worth doing I tell them "no, buy a later van with a 6l90e and sink some money in it"

Has anyone here ever tried/done (or heard of) a segment swap? A friend of mine thinks the segment swap should be possible, since the vans and the trucks use the same ECM. That would put the pickup truck transmission interface for the Allison into the van ECM.

I guess I need to do more wiring research.

 

[LCAC_Man]

Has anyone here ever tried/done (or heard of) a segment swap? A friend of mine thinks the segment swap should be possible, since the vans and the trucks use the same ECM. That would put the pickup truck transmission interface for the Allison into the van ECM.

I guess I need to do more wiring research.

no one has done it(at least when I was researching it)...I reached out to some of the better EFI tuners...none were interested in attempting it, the difference in interface between the allison tcm and 4l85 tcm is massive it's like trying to make a flip phone function like an iPhone..

 

[DarkSideofWill]

Sooo... what's the configuration breakdown by year for the vans?
Sounds like there are about 4 different configurations of Duramax van, in terms of the network system used:
2006 LLY/4L85E - GMT800 based?
2007 LMM/4L85E - Bastard child?
2008-2009 LMM/4L85E - GMT900 based?
2010-2015 LMM?/6L90E - GMT900 based?

I'm asking this question with an eye toward the transmission segment swap mentioned above... the possibilities and method are going to be different based on the GMLAN version used in the vehicle.

 

[LCAC_Man]

all the 2007 vans I've seen are LLY/LBZ...so far as I know only the pickups made a mid-year change..they are all GMT 610

 

[DarkSideofWill]

All those apps are the GMT610 platform, but, as I understand it from reading this thread, the network architecture changed several times, lumping the vans into the four groups I listed above. Is that not accurate?

With four different network configs, there will be four different methods of getting the Allison TCM integrated and everything talking the same language.

 

[LCAC_Man]

All those apps are the GMT610 platform, but, as I understand it from reading this thread, the network architecture changed several times, lumping the vans into the four groups I listed above. Is that not accurate?

With four different network configs, there will be four different methods of getting the Allison TCM integrated and everything talking the same language.

I beleive there are only 3, I don't know of any LMM 2007s...but the rest looks to be correct.

 

[DarkSideofWill]

I beleive there are only 3, I don't know of any LMM 2007s...but the rest looks to be correct.

I passed on a 2007 diesel van on eBay before I knew which RPO had the DPF and which did not, so I didn't know to check which RPO that van had.

Isn't the van at the beginning of this thread a 2007 LMM and that was part of what made that swap hard? Or is it a 2007 LLY?

 

[LCAC_Man]

I passed on a 2007 diesel van on eBay before I knew which RPO had the DPF and which did not, so I didn't know to check which RPO that van had.

Isn't the van at the beginning of this thread a 2007 LMM and that was part of what made that swap hard? Or is it a 2007 LLY?

he does say that...I've just never seen one...maybe it was a late production unit...honestly it should have made the process easier, if it has the more current bcm then it could drive the more current IPCs but I would never attempt to splice in the allison to the van harness, it's a much better solution to use the truck harness as a whole..
Not that any of it matters, I just wouldn't do it again even if well paid...given the availability of the 6.6 gas engine this year I'm not sure I would bother with a diesel again (though I do love the duramax)..

 

[DarkSideofWill]

I was looking up the Duramax trigger wheels and came across a bit about the LB7/LLY using the Delphi ECMs have 57x (60-3) tooth wheels, while the LBZ, LMM & following using Bosch ECMs having 58x (60-2) wheels. I also ran into a reference that the '06 LLY's were different than prior LLY's. The control systems being vastly different between the two makes sense if what Wiki says about the LBZ emission system not being ready is actually the reason it wasn't released sooner. I think The Bosch ECM is the E35 and the Delphi ECM is the E54 (and maybe E60?)

GM E54 ECM Programming Harness Duramax LB7

LOCKED ECM RESTORATION (GM AND DURAMAX) | ECMCustoms

www.ecmcustoms.com

GM Engine Control Module E35 for Duramax Diesel 6.6L LLY and LBZ - MRK Motorsports Official Site

Engine control module (ECU/ECM/PCM) for Druamax Diesel 6.6L (LLY and LBZ). See Fits section for details. Some units may have a generic VIN already programmed in from the assembly plant, but are 100% new and re-programmable. We can program the PCM with your supplied VIN for an additional charge of

www.mrk-motorsports.com

This will be relevant to figuring out any segment swaps or software mods for the Allison.

 

[LCAC_Man]

or you can just run a truck harness and ecm/tune..I believe you are grossly underestimating how much wiring has to be done to remove the 4l85 wiring and patch in the allison 80 conductor TCM pigtail..

 

[DarkSideofWill]

Ehh... I've built 150+ wire engine harnesses and a 230 wire dash harness before. I worked in a place that built 500+ wire harnesses for communications satellites.
Yeah, it's a PITA but not a project killer.

You are correct in that I have not paged through the diagrams and assembled the wire list yet. When I do, I'll share it here.

However, if the software doesn't work, the wiring is irrelevant. That's why I'm interested in figuring out a way to make the software workable first.

Even a complicated formula can be followed. Right now, there's not even a formula.

 

[artementy]

Sooo... what's the configuration breakdown by year for the vans?
Sounds like there are about 4 different configurations of Duramax van, in terms of the network system used:
2006 LLY/4L85E - GMT800 based?
2007 LMM/4L85E - Bastard child?
2008-2009 LMM/4L85E - GMT900 based?
2010-2015 LMM?/6L90E - GMT900 based?
I'm asking this question with an eye toward the transmission segment swap mentioned above... the possibilities and method are going to be different based on the GMLAN version used in the vehicle.

Well there is more to that.

1) Built between 08/2005-12/31/2006 are LLY vans. This includes 06 and some of the 07 model years. 8th of VIN = 2.
2) Built between 1/1/2007-08/2007 are 2007 model year LMM vans. All LMM vans have DPF. You can tell those by the 8th digit of VIN = 6. Those vans also have the old style dash and IPC, and the Diesel Text fuel above the odometer (LLY vans did not). See pic. Those still use Class 2 comms for IPC/BCM/ABS stuff.
3) Between 08/2007 - 08/2009 are your regular model years 2008 and 2009 LMM/4L85e vans. From this point on, all are GMLAN, no more Class 2.
4) 08/2009 - 12/31/2009 is the only short period of time where you could get the 6L90e behind the LMM. Because of short run, those are hard to find. Those vans would be calendar year 2010, 10th of VIN = A, 8th of VIN = 6. Or look at the driver door sticker for xx/09 production date. In other words, 6 speed without the DEF. They were still rated at 460lbft, unfortunately. Although perhaps can be tuned to go 525 to match the rated 6L90 torque limit.
5) 01/01/2010 and until end of production in the middle of 2016 are LGH/6L90e vans. 8th of VIN = L.

 

[DarkSideofWill]

Well there is more to that.

1) Built between 08/2005-12/31/2006 are LLY vans. This includes 06 and some of the 07 model years. 8th of VIN = 2.
2) Built between 1/1/2007-08/2007 are 2007 model year LMM vans. All LMM vans have DPF. You can tell those by the 8th digit of VIN = 6. Those vans also have the old style dash and IPC, and the Diesel Text fuel above the odometer (LLY vans did not). See pic. Those still use Class 2 comms for IPC/BCM/ABS stuff.
3) Between 08/2007 - 08/2009 are your regular model years 2008 and 2009 LMM/4L85e vans. From this point on, all are GMLAN, no more Class 2.
4) 08/2009 - 12/31/2009 is the only short period of time where you could get the 6L90e behind the LMM. Because of short run, those are hard to find. Those vans would be calendar year 2010, 10th of VIN = A, 8th of VIN = 6. Or look at the driver door sticker for xx/09 production date. In other words, 6 speed without the DEF. They were still rated at 460lbft, unfortunately. Although perhaps can be tuned to go 525 to match the rated 6L90 torque limit.
5) 01/01/2010 and until end of production in the middle of 2016 are LGH/6L90e vans. 8th of VIN = L.

Awesome info! Thank you!

 

[DarkSideofWill]

Wondering if there are parallels to be drawn between the 8.1 gasser offered w/ 4L85E vs. Allison and the 6.6 with 4L85E vs Allison.

did all 8.1 come standard with the Allison?

as far as an automatic tranny, did you have an option for a GM tranny or was the Allison required?

www.dieselplace.com

It's doable as it has been done. For an 8.1L you need the 6 speed trans, 6 speed TCM, and all of the associated wiring. The 01-05 8.1L ECM talks using the same data coms as the 06 8.1L does, so it can be done. The major differences between the 5 and 6 speed trans is the valve body, and the C1/C2 drums. There other differences, but most of the internals are still the same.