[GREASE FIRE]

i am getting ready to install a new starter and someone on this forum said i would need a starter brace and gave me the part number so i bought it - it is just a little thing a few inches long with two holes in it.
the old starter, like the new one, was a 28MT and i have removed it in the past but never saw this starter brace - just those two main mounting bolts. The new starter, however, does have a small bolt coming out the back of it that the old one did not. Can anyone explain how the starter brace get mounted? i assume it must be in this bolt but then where does the other hole in the brace attach?
thanks,
Paul

 

[High Sierra 2500]

The other end of the brace bolts to the engine block next to the starter as I recall...

If that brace was missing you are very lucky you haven't had any problems with the starter breaking off its mounting bolts...

 

[oil pan 4]

My starter brace was all the way loose and the brace was not doing any thing.
After the "help my starter broke off" thread I got up under there to check it and tightened it down and replaced the rusted bolt with a grade 8 bolt.
It helps about 100x if you put about an extra foot of starter and ignition wire on so you can install the wires while the starter is on the ground and reduce the number of nuts and bolts that are hard to install.
My truck starts about 4x faster now that I tossed the factory 4ga starter cable and installed a 00 gauge starter cable.

 

[Abrown8100]

Yeah your are lucky, The brace broke on my 6.2, i didnt know it, then my starter broke off. Snap the bolt right off. Thank god for the easy-out tools.

 

[Abrown8100]

My starter brace was all the way loose and the brace was not doing any thing.
After the "help my starter broke off" thread I got up under there to check it and tightened it down and replaced the rusted bolt with a grade 8 bolt.
It helps about 100x if you put about an extra foot of starter and ignition wire on so you can install the wires while the starter is on the ground and reduce the number of nuts and bolts that are hard to install.
My truck starts about 4x faster now that I tossed the factory 4ga starter cable and installed a 00 gauge starter cable.

I had the Factory cable one replaced also with a 0/2 gauge from my local Mack truck garage. And it does make a world of difference in starting my truck also.

 

[oil pan 4]

I went with the 3/8'' thick conductor 00 gauge wire because of the extra foot.

 

[GREASE FIRE]

wire questions...

thanks for the replies.
i don't know anything about the wires you are talking about - can you get them at any auto part stores?
can anyone tell me exactly what size wires i would need and how much of each to do this?
i did notice that at least one wire was totally fryed - it was one of the thinner ones, not the heavy wires, and i could not tell if it was in such bad shape from too much cranking or if it was from rubbing against the exhaust manifold just above it (the wire was long enough to be touching it).

On my van the starter can be removed and rested on the I beam axel with all the wires connected so maybe that will make it easier to replace them all. But i really want to fix all these wires the way some of you have suggested, i just am not exactly sure how to.
thanks again for any help!
Paul

 

[J.Peart]

my truck has never had this brace either, and i havent had the thing break off in the year and a half ive owned it, but just in case do you still know that part number grease fire? maybe i should find one and put it on.

 

[Gerald yelland]

The brace is a $5 part any good GM parts guy should be able to find it. I went for a year without it and after the horror stories I won't go without it again.

Gerald

 

[farmer0_1]

one of the bolts that hold your starter together should have a stud on it coming out the end of the starter case that face the front of the vehical and at the 12 oclock position . any starter shop will sell you one . it will be a very long bolt that threads completely thru the starter then has a short stud on the front end for mounting this brace. the other end of this brace goes to the block , you will see a mounting boss below the exhaust manifold that has , i believe a metric bolt hole.

 

[High Sierra 2500]

my truck has never had this brace either, and i havent had the thing break off in the year and a half ive owned it, but just in case do you still know that part number grease fire? maybe i should find one and put it on.

The brace on GREASE FIRE's van will be a different part than the one you will need unless you have converted to a geardrive starter. I don't know the part number, but if you go to a GM dealer and tell them what you need they should be able to find it.

i don't know anything about the wires you are talking about - can you get them at any auto part stores?
can anyone tell me exactly what size wires i would need and how much of each to do this?
i did notice that at least one wire was totally fryed - it was one of the thinner ones, not the heavy wires, and i could not tell if it was in such bad shape from too much cranking or if it was from rubbing against the exhaust manifold just above it (the wire was long enough to be touching it).

On my van the starter can be removed and rested on the I beam axel with all the wires connected so maybe that will make it easier to replace them all. But i really want to fix all these wires the way some of you have suggested, i just am not exactly sure how to.
thanks again for any help!

What you are looking for is a bigger starter cable (the big wire that comes from the batteries). I don't know whether an auto parts store would have it because it is mainly used on the old 6V systems and now on big rigs and heavy equipment. A heavy truck supply shop would probably have it. Personally, I haven't upgraded the starter cables on my truck, but I'm guessing it would help a bit.

You are lucky to have a starter that has a place to sit while you hook up the wiring... The rest of us have to wrestle the starter into place and hold it there with one hand while connecting the wires with the other. By the time you're done you feel like your arm is going to break...

 

[oil burner]

Part # for the brace for the reduction starter is 23502557 GM #, as mentioned should not be more than $5.00 at the dealer. Yes it mounts to the stud on the front of the starter and the other end mounts to a threaded boss/hole on the side of the block. You may have to run a tap in the hole to clean out the threads in the block if there has'nt been a bolt in it for a long time the threads may be rusty,you don't want to snap off this bolt as it would be hard to drill/easy out the remains.

 

[farmer0_1]

high sierra i just set mine on the front drive line. then i just have to balance it. or knock my self out. you think this one is special i had to pull dad's dmax starter yuck.

 

[GREASE FIRE]

starter wire

at the auto parts store they had some heavy starter wire - the owner said it was not 00 gauge but i think it was about 1 gauge and looks to be the same size as the heavy wires running from the batteries. He said 00 would be overkill for my application anyway.

the thing i can not figure out, though, is how to connect the new wire. does it just run from the positive terminal on the battery closest to the starter to the large bolt on the starter?
On my present setup, the largest wire from the starter runs along with a cluster of wires inside conduit and i have no idea where it goes from there, but i am sure it does not go directly to the battery because i don't see any wires like this at the battery. It looks more like it goes to the alternator.
Is it possible that the heavy wire from the battery goes to the alternator and then a seperate wire from that same terminal on the alternator goes to the starter?
thanks,
paul

 

[High Sierra 2500]

the thing i can not figure out, though, is how to connect the new wire. does it just run from the positive terminal on the battery closest to the starter to the large bolt on the starter?

No, it goes to the junction block which should be right next to the radiator on the passenger side at the top. It is probably under a piece of white plastic. I suppose it could be in a different location on the van... If it is, just follow the + lead from the passenger side battery and it will lead you right to it.

00 gauge wire is overkill... That's the idea.

high sierra i just set mine on the front drive line. then i just have to balance it. or knock my self out. you think this one is special i had to pull dad's dmax starter yuck.

I tried that... It doesn't quite work with my truck for some reason. I did find that I can set one end of the starter on the A-arm and then I only have to hold half of the weight...

 

[GREASE FIRE]

i think i know where the confusion was - those very heavy wires coming from the battery do go right near the starter but there must be some kind of connecting block just above the starter that i can't see from under the truck, because the main wire does not actually connect to the starter. There seems to be a smaller one that travels that short distance (only about 6") to the terminal on the starter. That must be the thing High sierra was talking about that is near the radiator on his truck - on mine i think it is just above the starter.
Paul

 

[farmer0_1]

my positive cable to the starter runs from the passenger side battery positive terminal down to the frame in front of the fuel pump then back to the starter solinoid on the starter. the small wires run down the rear of the engine around the back of the passenger exhaust manifold to the starter solinoid. this is on a pickup.

 

[oil pan 4]

Over kill works for me.
It was ether use the 00 gauge I have or buy some thing else.
I also soldered the connections, chafe wraped the part that touches the frame and RTVed over the soldered parts then put heat shrink wrap over the RTV after it cured, yes over killed.

 

[High Sierra 2500]

my positive cable to the starter runs from the passenger side battery positive terminal down to the frame in front of the fuel pump then back to the starter solinoid on the starter. the small wires run down the rear of the engine around the back of the passenger exhaust manifold to the starter solinoid. this is on a pickup.

Where does the cable from the driver's side battery join the one from the passenger side battery?

think i know where the confusion was - those very heavy wires coming from the battery do go right near the starter but there must be some kind of connecting block just above the starter that i can't see from under the truck, because the main wire does not actually connect to the starter. There seems to be a smaller one that travels that short distance (only about 6") to the terminal on the starter. That must be the thing High sierra was talking about that is near the radiator on his truck - on mine i think it is just above the starter.
Paul

Possibly.... If that is the junction block there will be a cable that goes to it from each battery and a cable that goes to the starter from the junction block.

If pictures or maybe a diagram of what I'm talking about would help I can see if I can come up with something...

 

[farmer0_1]

the positive battery cable on the drivers side leaves the positive lug on the battery and travels the top of the radiator to the passenger side battery and stacks on the pos lug there.