[Jr.]

I have a C.C. LBZ with Allison and 265/75/16 Goodyear silent armor tires on PYO's. Recently while trying to drive through some deep snow ( about 10" to 14") the truck had bad wheelhop or maybe a severe shudder is a better way to describe it, as it was hunting for traction. T-bars are in the stock position with factory shocks.

I've owned several Dodge diesels with 285's and have driven through similar snow conditions and have never experienced anything this severe.
It was bad enough that if I did'nt back off, I was afraid I'd toss a front CV. Anydody ever experience anything similar to this and/or have any suggestions on how to possibly minimize the shudder, it was not what I had expected.

Also, what may have been the main contributing factor, ( Tire design,IFS,poor shocks "as in factory") ?

Thanks for any advice in advance, Jr.

PS: I hope this was the right forum to post this in.

 

[Antnee77]

Is this your first time driving the truck in snow?

 

[Jr.]

Yes, it was, at least anything deeper than a couple of inches. I had a set of 255/85/16 BFG Mud Terrains on for a few months with some fender trimming and T-bars cranked. Drove that through some snow that was wet and heavy and about 4" deep and the truck behaved quite well. I'd still have the BFG's on but I had a vibration in the steering wheel that I could'nt get rid of and it was starting to get on my nerves. Sold them and bought a set of these Silent Armor Goodyears. Could'nt wait for some decent snow to really try them out.

 

[ratlover]

Its called axel wrap. Your tire gets traction, your rear end rotates a bit and makes a S outa the rear springs, it breaks traction and slips till it bites and then it will wrap up again. The cure is either to not break traction(tires, less throttle etc) or controling axel wrap in the form of traction bars etc. Has nothing to do with your front end or IFS(although if you are in 4x4 and you break traction with the front tires your rears are now just 2 or 1 tire putting all that power to the gorund and more than likely it will slip and start the whole axel wrap deal) More than likely suspention shocks and front end wont make a hill of beans difference unless you at the drag strip.

 

[Jr.]

Yep, Mr. Axle wrap and I are pretty familiar with each other. Just never expeirienced it to this degree before. Some of my Dodges had some once in a while,mostly after lift kits with more arch and/or lift blocks. Built a few old school chevy's, '73 to '87 and could sometimes tame axle wrap with a few extra leaves in the spring packs.

This is my first IFS front suspension truck and was a little suprised at how much shudder there actually was, especially on a non-lifted stock rig. I didn't have this much with my last Dodge/Cummins with a 8" Skyjacker lift and 37" Parnelli Jones Dirt Gripz.

Thanks for the input, there's always a learning curve when dealing with something new and unfamiliar. I'm sure I'll be able to tame this beast also with a little more research and info.

Tell ya what though, on the street my D-Max outperforms the ol'cummins/ 6spd. hands down. First Automatic trans. I've owned in 24 years and absolutely love it!! Smooooooth!!

 

[ratlover]

I know when I put traction bars on my 03 my wheel hop and shuddering whent away. I could plow snow with the hammer down and never have to worry :grd: This truck you do have to watch sometimes........

 

[dmaxlover]

Just add enough weight to the rear so that the overload spring is in contact with the rest of the leafs. Wheel hop problem will be solved.

 

[Jr.]

Ratlover, Where did you get your traction bars from, and which brand are they, or did you fab some yourself ? Got any pics ?

 

[SSonnentag]

I installed a pair of Caltracs traction bars yesterday. It has eliminated my wheel hop in soft sand. I'm very happy with them after a short test drive through some sandy washes.

 

[2500hd05]

just peg it so they NEVER get traction. problem solved.

 

[Jr.]

Well, I think a set of caltracs will soon be under my truck. Was out on Lake Winnebago yesterday to retrieve my ice shanty and with some drifts 12 to 20 inches deep the truck shuddered and jumped so bad that for sure I thought that I would toss a U-joint unless I took my foot out of the bucket. But a loss of forward momentum resulted in a 15 minute shoveling exercise session.

 

[derekdsj]

mine does the same thing when i get it in snow what are the caltracs and what do they do ?

 

[dozerboy]

Traction bars and they stop wheel hop Trippin has them

 

[dmaxlover]

You will still get wheel hop with some sort of traction bar. The problem isn't entirely due to the axle rotating, it's mostly due to the soft leaf springs. I have traction bars on my truck, and the other day I was f'ing around in the yard, I decided to back into a large pile of snow in 2wd and let the tires start to spin. I got out of the truck with it still in reverse and the tires spinning. The truck started to hop, not violently, just enough to see what was going on. There was absolutely no axle rotation what's so ever, all of the bouncing was coming from the main set of leafs flexing above the helper.

This is why I previously stated to add enough ballast to the rear to make the help spring come in contact with the rest of the pack.

 

[hdd-max]

Airbags will also stop the wheel hop. I have the recomended 10psi in the bags. Since I put these on I have never had wheel hop.

 

[McRat]

Was this with or without chains?

Wheelhop can be fixed two ways, suspension modification, or more traction.

You might even play with reducing inflation pressure.

I'll admit my snow/ice driving experience is limited to ski trips, but I've had wheelhop in low traction conditions a lot. Usually sand over hardpack.

 

[Jr.]

Kind of hard to add weight to the back of truck when I already have my portable fishing shanty in the back with my other ice fishing gear.

The wheelhop is a result of tire traction being lost momentarily,then re-established at a fast rate, causing the springs to store and release this energy rapidly. Traction bars that work properly keep the springs from flexing fore & aft,and eliminate the shudder and jumping. (USUALLY).

Sometimes trucks with a lot of spring arch or large lift blocks add extra leverage to the suspension system and WILL make matters worse. Also large tires ( 35" and larger) with lots of sidewall can compound the problem.

Back when I always had to lift every truck I owned, from old chevy big block trucks to Dodge Cummins diesels with 8" to 12'' of lift and 40'' tires, wheel hop was a constant nemesis. Usually stiffer springs and ladder bars were used to help, but then the ride was rather harsh.

I've noticed though that my 1-ton Dodges had more leaves in the pack and they seemed to sit tighter together, where as I can see daylight between some of the leaves on my 2500 HD when the truck is unladen.

I wish I would'nt have sold my 255/85/16 BFG Mud-Terrain pizza cutters so soon, Would like to see how they would have handled the deep snow.

 

[BigStu128]

I have a C.C. LBZ with Allison and 265/75/16 Goodyear silent armor tires on PYO's. Recently while trying to drive through some deep snow ( about 10" to 14") the truck had bad wheelhop or maybe a severe shudder is a better way to describe it, as it was hunting for traction. T-bars are in the stock position with factory shocks.

I've owned several Dodge diesels with 285's and have driven through similar snow conditions and have never experienced anything this severe.
It was bad enough that if I did'nt back off, I was afraid I'd toss a front CV. Anydody ever experience anything similar to this and/or have any suggestions on how to possibly minimize the shudder, it was not what I had expected.

Also, what may have been the main contributing factor, ( Tire design,IFS,poor shocks "as in factory") ?

Thanks for any advice in advance, Jr.

PS: I hope this was the right forum to post this in.

Jr, I had the same thing happen to me earlier this year.
I have 285's on my CC/SB
The road had about 6 to 8 inches of snow on top of ice.
While driving up the road, the truck started shuttering severely. Rather than let off, I used some more go pedal and it went away. I figured it was just the truck loosing and grabbing traction. But now that I see everyone's opinion about axle wrap, that makes lots of sense.
I took the tire pressures down from about 50 to about 32 and the problem went away. Even though we didn't have many more chances for me to check it out. So that would be one thing to try first.

 

[Brandt51]

Traction

You will still get wheel hop with some sort of traction bar. The problem isn't entirely due to the axle rotating, it's mostly due to the soft leaf springs. I have traction bars on my truck, and the other day I was f'ing around in the yard, I decided to back into a large pile of snow in 2wd and let the tires start to spin. I got out of the truck with it still in reverse and the tires spinning. The truck started to hop, not violently, just enough to see what was going on. There was absolutely no axle rotation what's so ever, all of the bouncing was coming from the main set of leafs flexing above the helper.

This is why I previously stated to add enough ballast to the rear to make the help spring come in contact with the rest of the pack.

Traction bars are for going foward hot rod. Wheel hop is caused by axle wrap. When the tires get traction the axle walks up the leaf springs. It can only go so far and then unloads, snapping back to it's original position causing the wheel to hop. Sometimes manufactures have solved this problem by placing the shocks on either side of the axle, but not in the 2500HDs case. Loading down the rig to level the spring pack with the thick overload spring is sort of simulating a tractoin bar.

 

[serpa4]

I have the same problem. So far it doesn't happen enough to deal with, yet.