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Hi, a newbie here. However, I've posted stuff on many a forum about other stuff in the past and people are always super helpful, so thanks in advance.

My skill level is "okay" amateur mechanic and trouble shooter.

I'm posting maybe a little prematurely, but hoping it might yield an couple easy answers before I dive in too far.

I have a ~'94 K3500,about 80,000 miles on it, a fair bit of customization from previous owners. For years it's been started usually with a squirt of starter fluid on the air filter--probably just bad glow plugs since I just checked the controller. (I have a new set ready to install). Once it starts, it's always run pretty well. Until....

A couple weekends ago I started it after not having run for prob 6 mo. and checked everything to go do a haul run. However, in the process I ran it out of fuel out in the sticks and had to put some red-dye in it to get back to civilization. I did get it started okay after bleeding, etc. it ran fine, and it seemed ready to go. Fueled up.

On the run, maybe 50 miles in, at some point it started acting weird, surging, basically, as it turned out, full on and full off depending on whether I touched the pedal. This was on the highway mostly, no stopping, so the surging was a little subdued and I'd say manageable. (Later, looking around at diagnostic websites, that appears to be a sign that the fuel injection pump has a problem.) Anyway, I pull into a gas station a bit later and take it out of gear and foot off the pedal, and it goes full throttle. I had to turn the key off to make it stop. I fueled it up, and it managed to start again after a little fussing, got it in gear, and continued, with surging and fingers crossed that I could limp home.

So I keep going since I'm pretty close to my destination, and a few miles short the engine quits. Some cops happened by and pushed me out of the intersection, and I let it sit for a while, waiting for a buddy. When he shows up we got it to start with a lot of starter fluid, but the best it would do is idle really rough and inconsistently. I had a spare PMD (it's remote mounted) and that didn't do anything either, so I declared it dead and had it towed back to a local shop to diagnose. Oh, and my girlfriend, who was along, was not pleased, needless to say.....

A week later they apparently threw a code reader on it and all they told me was that it had a "bad injection pump" and "bad lift pump", quoted north of $3500, and charged me $130. I'm going to throw a reader on it again myself as soon as I get my hands on one.

Anyway, it's supposed to have a DS4 on it and I got a set of the parts including a reman at my disposal. I proceeded to watch some pump installation videos and whatnot, and I feel pretty comfortable with doing the job. However, and here's where my questions lie:

I saw snippets of repairs that suggest it could be the optical sensor in the pump (replaceable, though some don't recommend it), which would be a lot easier since the pump can stay installed and more or less correctly timed. Also, the master fuel solenoid could be faulty. So I pulled off the top cover off the pump, and I found that the fuel was not all the way to the top in the chamber. I'm used to seeing that on other pumps I've had apart. A footnote: the lift pump seems to be fine since the fuel bleeder knob spits ample fuel out when I open it and crank. There is also a brass "T" valve installed in a fuel line somewhere and opening that yields fuel (I don't know if this is a customization on this vehicle).

So, is the fact the fuel chamber wasn't full indicative of anything?

Anything else that jumps out?

Secondarily, the turbo is spitting relatively a lot of oil into the intake, since it's basically "damp" through and through. It's a reman turbo that's in there, with less than 10k miles on it. Worn bushings I'm guessing? Is it a critical thing to have a little oil coming in, or do I put it on the todo list?

Okay, thanks!! I'll post more tomorrow.
 

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1995 Chevrolet Silverado Z71 6.5 TD
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First mistake was using starting fluid. Only use WD40 or a non stick cooking spray as a starting fluid. Never starting fluid it could damage the engine but also detonate or blow up.
 

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Hi, a newbie here. However, I've posted stuff on many a forum about other stuff in the past and people are always super helpful, so thanks in advance.

My skill level is "okay" amateur mechanic and trouble shooter.

I'm posting maybe a little prematurely, but hoping it might yield an couple easy answers before I dive in too far.

I have a ~'94 K3500,about 80,000 miles on it, a fair bit of customization from previous owners. For years it's been started usually with a squirt of starter fluid on the air filter--probably just bad glow plugs since I just checked the controller. (I have a new set ready to install). Once it starts, it's always run pretty well. Until....

A couple weekends ago I started it after not having run for prob 6 mo. and checked everything to go do a haul run. However, in the process I ran it out of fuel out in the sticks and had to put some red-dye in it to get back to civilization. I did get it started okay after bleeding, etc. it ran fine, and it seemed ready to go. Fueled up.

On the run, maybe 50 miles in, at some point it started acting weird, surging, basically, as it turned out, full on and full off depending on whether I touched the pedal. This was on the highway mostly, no stopping, so the surging was a little subdued and I'd say manageable. (Later, looking around at diagnostic websites, that appears to be a sign that the fuel injection pump has a problem.) Anyway, I pull into a gas station a bit later and take it out of gear and foot off the pedal, and it goes full throttle. I had to turn the key off to make it stop. I fueled it up, and it managed to start again after a little fussing, got it in gear, and continued, with surging and fingers crossed that I could limp home.

So I keep going since I'm pretty close to my destination, and a few miles short the engine quits. Some cops happened by and pushed me out of the intersection, and I let it sit for a while, waiting for a buddy. When he shows up we got it to start with a lot of starter fluid, but the best it would do is idle really rough and inconsistently. I had a spare PMD (it's remote mounted) and that didn't do anything either, so I declared it dead and had it towed back to a local shop to diagnose. Oh, and my girlfriend, who was along, was not pleased, needless to say.....

A week later they apparently threw a code reader on it and all they told me was that it had a "bad injection pump" and "bad lift pump", quoted north of $3500, and charged me $130. I'm going to throw a reader on it again myself as soon as I get my hands on one.

Anyway, it's supposed to have a DS4 on it and I got a set of the parts including a reman at my disposal. I proceeded to watch some pump installation videos and whatnot, and I feel pretty comfortable with doing the job. However, and here's where my questions lie:

I saw snippets of repairs that suggest it could be the optical sensor in the pump (replaceable, though some don't recommend it), which would be a lot easier since the pump can stay installed and more or less correctly timed. Also, the master fuel solenoid could be faulty. So I pulled off the top cover off the pump, and I found that the fuel was not all the way to the top in the chamber. I'm used to seeing that on other pumps I've had apart. A footnote: the lift pump seems to be fine since the fuel bleeder knob spits ample fuel out when I open it and crank. There is also a brass "T" valve installed in a fuel line somewhere and opening that yields fuel (I don't know if this is a customization on this vehicle).

So, is the fact the fuel chamber wasn't full indicative of anything?

Anything else that jumps out?

Secondarily, the turbo is spitting relatively a lot of oil into the intake, since it's basically "damp" through and through. It's a reman turbo that's in there, with less than 10k miles on it. Worn bushings I'm guessing? Is it a critical thing to have a little oil coming in, or do I put it on the todo list?

Okay, thanks!! I'll post more tomorrow.
Welcome to DieselPlace

Scan for codes. Any auto parts store can do it for free. If you find any post them here.

Before you go throwing money away you need to properly diagnose things.
The Optical sensor cost is upwards of $300. you can find a decent reman for $400-600 with some searching.

First as mentioned above, never use starting fluid..
Using starting fluid in your IDI engine can cause thousands of dollars in damage..
If you need help getting it started use a quick shot of WD40 or a cooking spray in the intake to help kick it off.

Start by performing a lift pump test: Reference Material: Lift Pump/OPS
If your lift pump fails the test, replace it with AC/Delco EP158
Go through all of your grounds: Grounds-Grounds-Grounds The importance of good grounds.....
Remove each one, clean the contact areas, then reinstall.
One bad ground can cause a lot of issues in a 6.5L
Install a piece of clear fuel line on the return side of the Injection pump, as shown here: Question: - 1999 GMC Bluebird 6.5L TD - PMD &amp...
If you see any air bubbles in the line then you have an air intrusion in your fuel system and need to hunt the source.
If the problem continues then try another "Known working" PMD w/resistor installed.
If you have the PMD relocated, try connecting the PMD to the OEM harness on the injection pump.
This can eliminate a bad extension harness issue.
Replace your fuel filter.

For your turbo issue, change the CDR valve on the passenger side valve cover.
The excess oil into the turbo is the neglected CDR.
 

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Actually, since this is a 94, chances are the OPS is bad.
The OPS controls the Lift Pump when engine is running.
Change with ACDelco OPS ONLY.

That may not the only thing wrong with it but it is a good start.
 
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What are the chances the off road dyed fuel is / was messing with the optical sensor?

But I'm kinda with the others thinking that the long term continued use of starting fluid just isn't a good sign for the overall health and care of the engine. May be a lot of things going on here and it finally just decided enough is enough.
 
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Red fuel won’t hurt anything.
 

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They are over charging. I was quoted $1300 is for a new pump installed from schied diesel in Lafayette IN. I think they have locations across the US.
Definitely check the oil pressure sensor forst
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi everyone, thanks for all the suggestions.

Remarks:

- Did the lift pump test. It does produce fuel while cranking (the engine does not run, and I believe it does not continuously produce fuel while the key is in "run" but the engine is not--is this normal?). Fuel does come out of the t-valve and the bleeder on the filter with authority when cranking.

- Understood about starting fluid. Curious though, what does it do? I am presuming premature ignition would be the problem, which would maybe bend valves or cause some backlash that could eventually wear things? Anyway, it is what it is at the moment. I'm putting in new glow plugs as noted so as not to have the problem going forward.

- I'll put in a new CDR valve. Thanks for the heads up on that.

- will scare up a code reader today and report back. (It doesn't drive so Autozone isn't any use there).

Thanks again!
 

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Hi everyone, thanks for all the suggestions.

Remarks:

- Did the lift pump test. It does produce fuel while cranking (the engine does not run, and I believe it does not continuously produce fuel while the key is in "run" but the engine is not--is this normal?). Fuel does come out of the t-valve and the bleeder on the filter with authority when cranking.

- Understood about starting fluid. Curious though, what does it do? I am presuming premature ignition would be the problem, which would maybe bend valves or cause some backlash that could eventually wear things? Anyway, it is what it is at the moment. I'm putting in new glow plugs as noted so as not to have the problem going forward.

- I'll put in a new CDR valve. Thanks for the heads up on that.

- will scare up a code reader today and report back. (It doesn't drive so Autozone isn't any use there).

Thanks again!
Starting fluid causes premature ignition and can pop the precups out of the heads, bend rods and blow apart pistons.
A great example can be seen here: Info: - Ether and the 6.2

If you are looking at fuel flow instead of the listed lift pump test, your lift pump should produce 1/2 pint of fuel in 15 seconds if you open the t valve and let fuel flow into a container.
If it is less than that your lift pump is to weak
 

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Can do, but how does the oil pressure sensor come into play? If it's bad does it shut down the PMD or such?
The OPS supplies power to the lift pump. If the OPS goes bad you lose lift pump power.
The rule of thumb for a stock system is, if you replace your lift pump, replace your OPS as well.
There is a Mod you can do to add a relay to take the load off of the OPS to help it live longer.
 

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96+ the lift pump works like it does on a gasser where it runs for a few seconds when the ecu comes on but then will shut off if it doesn't sense the engine is cranking or running.

I thought the red fuel was an issue with these? Seems like I have heard people saying that they had issues from just 2 stroke oil because of its color and 2 stroke isn't nearly as dark as the off road stuff is sometimes. I don't have easy access to off road fuel and don't use 2 stroke oil in my diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Okay, so it's an OBD1 and I did the paperclip trick (short A&B) and counted flashes. I saw elsewhere in multiple places that it's supposed to throw three 12's, the codes (3x each), followed by three more 12's. However, it just throws a 62. 62 is apparently low turbo boost pressure, but that's because I have the upper manifold disconnected at the moment.
Am I missing something?

I checked the fuel again and in "run", I get plenty out of the T-valve hose. I can measure it I suppose, but it looks quite ample. 1/2 pint/15 sec? That's a cup, so one quart/minute. Yeah, probably.
So if the pump is good, I imagine the OPS (sorry, didn't get the acronym earlier) is good, no? It registers oil pressure on the gauge fwiw.
 

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96+ the lift pump works like it does on a gasser where it runs for a few seconds when the ecu comes on but then will shut off if it doesn't sense the engine is cranking or running.

I thought the red fuel was an issue with these? Seems like I have heard people saying that they had issues from just 2 stroke oil because of its color and 2 stroke isn't nearly as dark as the off road stuff is sometimes. I don't have easy access to off road fuel and don't use 2 stroke oil in my diesel.
The 96+ has the OPS relay installed already from GM. Prior to 96', the relay mod needs to be done.

Adding too much fuel additive like two stroke oil has caused Optical Sensor issues. When adding any fuel additive in a 6.5 you must get the ratio correct in a DS4
The red dye or farm fuels have not caused any issues I am aware of.
I am in an area where it's sold like water ( everyone has it). I have used it a few times with no issues.
 

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Okay, so it's an OBD1 and I did the paperclip trick (short A&B) and counted flashes. I saw elsewhere in multiple places that it's supposed to throw three 12's, the codes (3x each), followed by three more 12's. However, it just throws a 62. 62 is apparently low turbo boost pressure, but that's because I have the upper manifold disconnected at the moment.
Am I missing something?

I checked the fuel again and in "run", I get plenty out of the T-valve hose. I can measure it I suppose, but it looks quite ample. 1/2 pint/15 sec? That's a cup, so one quart/minute. Yeah, probably.
So if the pump is good, I imagine the OPS (sorry, didn't get the acronym earlier) is good, no? It registers oil pressure on the gauge fwiw.
You can add a jumper wire to the lift pump to help force prime the fuel system: Fuel Pressure oddity
It's very important to go through all those grounds and do the other things listed within the post I provided above.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm going to check the wiring again, but I'm not seeing anything that suggests the lifter pump isn't working properly.

Does anyone know what actually is going on inside this injector pump? What is the PMD actually doing? Normally there is a mid-pressure input (i.e. it's at lifter pump pressure), a fuel cutoff solenoid, the high pressure pump. and some throttle controlled valves (usually mechanically ganged together) that allow high pressure fuel to go to the injectors. This thing also has the optical sensor, which I'm not sure what feedback it's giving to what (I'm guessing it's a precision crankshaft angle by way of an optical encoder on the pump drive shaft). Apparently one can disconnect the optical sensor and the engine is supposed to run in some sort of limp mode. Tried that fwiw). The pump also has two fuel ports aside from the injectors, one input and one low pressure return. I suppose I can troubleshoot those. However, I did already see fuel coming out of both when I had fuel lines disconnected.

Where I'm going with this is a process of elimination. If the injector pump is getting fuel, how can I test that it's pumping fuel to the injectors?

Things that could be wrong:
- PMD module not opening the injector's valves for whatever reason such as:
- PMD shot
- bad wire/gnd/etc
- some other electrical glitch
  • injector's valves not working? (I would think this is unlikely)
  • fuel not actually getting to the pump? (it seems to be)
  • injector pump's high pressure pump shot?
  • fuel shutoff solenoid valve not disengaging?
  • lift pump not 100% (it really seems to be though)
  • ??
I suppose injectors could be shot as well, and pump is actually fine. I'm going to loosen a few fuel line nuts as well just to check if anything is coming out.

Can anyone confirm that the 62-62-62 codes I got are normal, as opposed to 12-12-12 62-62-62 12-12-12 ? I also read in various places that the injector pump is suppose to be quite self-diagnosing, but I'm not getting any codes to that effect.

Thanks
 

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I'm going to check the wiring again, but I'm not seeing anything that suggests the lifter pump isn't working properly.

Does anyone know what actually is going on inside this injector pump? What is the PMD actually doing? Normally there is a mid-pressure input (i.e. it's at lifter pump pressure), a fuel cutoff solenoid, the high pressure pump. and some throttle controlled valves (usually mechanically ganged together) that allow high pressure fuel to go to the injectors. This thing also has the optical sensor, which I'm not sure what feedback it's giving to what (I'm guessing it's a precision crankshaft angle by way of an optical encoder on the pump drive shaft). Apparently one can disconnect the optical sensor and the engine is supposed to run in some sort of limp mode. Tried that fwiw). The pump also has two fuel ports aside from the injectors, one input and one low pressure return. I suppose I can troubleshoot those. However, I did already see fuel coming out of both when I had fuel lines disconnected.

Where I'm going with this is a process of elimination. If the injector pump is getting fuel, how can I test that it's pumping fuel to the injectors?

Things that could be wrong:
- PMD module not opening the injector's valves for whatever reason such as:
- PMD shot
- bad wire/gnd/etc
- some other electrical glitch
  • injector's valves not working? (I would think this is unlikely)
  • fuel not actually getting to the pump? (it seems to be)
  • injector pump's high pressure pump shot?
  • fuel shutoff solenoid valve not disengaging?
  • lift pump not 100% (it really seems to be though)
  • ??
I suppose injectors could be shot as well, and pump is actually fine. I'm going to loosen a few fuel line nuts as well just to check if anything is coming out.

Can anyone confirm that the 62-62-62 codes I got are normal, as opposed to 12-12-12 62-62-62 12-12-12 ? I also read in various places that the injector pump is suppose to be quite self-diagnosing, but I'm not getting any codes to that effect.

Thanks
Again, if you go through the items I posted in post #3 and follow the others advice, you can start figuring out things...
Injectors are not the issue atm..
Try another "Known Working" PMD w/resistor installed as I mentioned in post 3
Install the clear line on the return side of the IP as mentioned
You can gut the fuel shutoff plunger Info: - Can you bypass fuel shutoff solenoid on injector...
You must be absolutely sure about the lift pump. read the test link in post 3 and follow it.

You cannot cut corners trying to get it to run. follow through with the advice given and you won't have any issues
 

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Th e running away is caused by the armature screw which is broke off or loose. A new IP is the normal fix, A PMD can cause a runaway but you changed that . If you dare to try and fix the armature screw take off the solenoid cover to get to it. Quantum mechanic did one one time with a little tutoring from me. It's hid in the search files some where.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Th e running away is caused by the armature screw which is broke off or loose. A new IP is the normal fix, A PMD can cause a runaway but you changed that . If you dare to try and fix the armature screw take off the solenoid cover to get to it. Quantum mechanic did one one time with a little tutoring from me. It's hid in the search files some where.
Ah. Good to know. Would that be related to a no-start after as well? If I do pull this pump to replace it I'm going to open it up first.

I haven't changed the PMD, but I have a spare in unknown condition and the shop that I paid for a diagnostic also did have a working spare and didn't report that it was bad. However, they did tell me it was throwing codes for the fuel injector pump and lift pump, but I don't know how they got those... I don't get them.

I did check continuity and for shorts in the extension harness and it checked out fine.
 
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