[alleghenyrose]

My cousin who lives in Wash state, wants me to drive from MD to Florida, pick up 4 stacked boat trailers, and tow the lot to Washington. They stack the 3 trailers of course, and the total weight is less than 10K lbs but they are 35' long. So empty down, loaded from Fl to Wash, and empty back to MD. I will ignore any comments on the cost effectiveness of this because he is family, but would appreciate any comments on the barriers, like:
a. Do I need to stop at the inspection stations?
b. Do I need to have a CDL?
c. Do I need any special equipment, flares, fire extinguisher, log book etc?
d. Will my insurance company like this?
e. Am I legal doing this?
f. Am I under any driving time limits?

 

[moosecountry]

My cousin who lives in Wash state, wants me to drive from MD to Florida, pick up 4 stacked boat trailers, and tow the lot to Washington. They stack the 3 trailers of course, and the total weight is less than 10K lbs but they are 35' long. So empty down, loaded from Fl to Wash, and empty back to MD. I will ignore any comments on the cost effectiveness of this because he is family, but would appreciate any comments on the barriers, like:
a. Do I need to stop at the inspection stations?
b. Do I need to have a CDL?
c. Do I need any special equipment, flares, fire extinguisher, log book etc?
d. Will my insurance company like this?
e. Am I legal doing this?
f. Am I under any driving time limits?

If you claim you are doing it for family and "not for hire" then you are NOT commercial and exempt from any commercial requirements. I assume this is a one time thing, so you should have no trouble. Also the weight is below any CDL requirements anyway. Don't worry about any of the above issues.

Tim

 

[DnHolland]

You might get a bill of sale showing ownership of the trailers. You shouldn't have any problems, but if you were to get stopped that would prove this wasn't a "for Hire" type deal.

 

[BIGR]

• has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR)or gross vehicle weight (GVW) or combination weight (GCW)of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 lbs) or more in interstate commerce

If the above information is not correct, you may return to START and answer the questions again.
If the above information is correct, then your operation is subject to:

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs) and Financial Responsibility Requirements.

You might want to research it a little bit more. Just because you are not for hire doesn't necessarly mean you are expempt from the Federal Regulations.

 

[Idle_Chatter]

You may also consider that you are going to be liable (along with your cousin) for damages to the trailers and will be solely liable for any traffic incidents in transit and your personal insurance carrier will probably not step up for you.

 

[RayMich]

I would start by calling your insurance company to make sure you are covered and the trailers are covered in case of an accident. Make sure you have a bill of sale proving you own the trailers and you are not hauling them for hire.

Four stacked boat trailers would lead any highway patrol to assume you are hauling commercial so get ready to prove otherwise. I suspect you will get to meet a lot of state troopers on the way so practice up on your friedly demeanor and how to talk nicely to them.

 

[moosecountry]

• has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR)or gross vehicle weight (GVW) or combination weight (GCW)of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 lbs) or more in interstate commerce

If the above information is not correct, you may return to START and answer the questions again.
If the above information is correct, then your operation is subject to:

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs) and Financial Responsibility Requirements.

You might want to research it a little bit more. Just because you are not for hire doesn't necessarly mean you are expempt from the Federal Regulations.

The above states "...interstate commerce..." thus if he is not commercial he is exempt from those regulations.

A CDL and regulations are for COMMERCIAL transport, if he is not for hire he is not commercial. Falls under the same category as a person pulling their own 15K pound RV.

Why would he run into DOT unless he was doing something wrong? They have to have probable cause to detain you. They cannot just pull you over for the fun of it and check you out.


Tim

 

[BIGR]

The above states "...interstate commerce..." thus if he is not commercial he is exempt from those regulations.

A CDL and regulations are for COMMERCIAL transport, if he is not for hire he is not commercial. Falls under the same category as a person pulling their own 15K pound RV.

Why would he run into DOT unless he was doing something wrong? They have to have probable cause to detain you. They cannot just pull you over for the fun of it and check you out.


Tim

I beg to differ on that. They have the authority to pull over vehicles like his to investigate further, to see if the regulations do apply. How else would they be able to determine if he was in commerce. Also it would look pretty obvious to an officer to see a truck towing a stack of trailers. Even if he does not need the CDL, he could still fall under the federal regulations. Trust me if he falls under the regulations then he has to have the log book, fire extinguisher, triangle reflectors, medical card, federal inspection and higher insurance coverage as required by the feds.

 

[moosecountry]

I beg to differ on that. They have the authority to pull over vehicles like his to investigate further, to see if the regulations do apply. How else would they be able to determine if he was in commerce. Also it would look pretty obvious to an officer to see a truck towing a stack of trailers. Even if he does not need the CDL, he could still fall under the federal regulations. Trust me if he falls under the regulations then he has to have the log book, fire extinguisher, triangle reflectors, medical card, federal inspection and higher insurance coverage as required by the feds.

I am not trying to argue with you, and for repeated trips I would agree he should consider following commercial guidelines even he does not technically need to.

As to pulling someone over at will. I don't see how the Troopers are above the Constitution prohibiting illegal search and seizure. That is like a police officer walking into random houses and investigating to see if there is drug activity going on. It would certainly be a pain in the *** but it would never stand up in court.

I have a big 34' enclosed trailer that I use for work. I have been stopped under similar circumstances and just said it is empty even though it is well over 12K pounds loaded with tools and materials. They asked to see inside and I said "NO". That was as far as they could take it.

I guess they could try, but if you stand your ground and know your rights there isn't much they can do. If he forced his way into the trailer nothing he could find would be permissible for him to prosecute me.

I wish the original poster luck in his travels!

Tim

 

[blizzardplowman]

I am not trying to argue with you, and for repeated trips I would agree he should consider following commercial guidelines even he does not technically need to.

As to pulling someone over at will. I don't see how the Troopers are above the Constitution prohibiting illegal search and seizure. That is like a police officer walking into random houses and investigating to see if there is drug activity going on. It would certainly be a pain in the *** but it would never stand up in court.

I have a big 34' enclosed trailer that I use for work. I have been stopped under similar circumstances and just said it is empty even though it is well over 12K pounds loaded with tools and materials. They asked to see inside and I said "NO". That was as far as they could take it.

I guess they could try, but if you stand your ground and know your rights there isn't much they can do. If he forced his way into the trailer nothing he could find would be permissible for him to prosecute me.

I wish the original poster luck in his travels!

Tim

Glad that works by you, Around here if the trailer is over 10,001 LB, you need a CDL, no questions, RV's are exempt. I paid that fine, I don't want to do it again......Oh and I was empty at the time, so all I got hit was for no CDL when pulling a trailer taged @ 20K.

 

[BIGR]

I am not trying to argue with you, and for repeated trips I would agree he should consider following commercial guidelines even he does not technically need to.

As to pulling someone over at will. I don't see how the Troopers are above the Constitution prohibiting illegal search and seizure. That is like a police officer walking into random houses and investigating to see if there is drug activity going on. It would certainly be a pain in the *** but it would never stand up in court.

I have a big 34' enclosed trailer that I use for work. I have been stopped under similar circumstances and just said it is empty even though it is well over 12K pounds loaded with tools and materials. They asked to see inside and I said "NO". That was as far as they could take it.

I guess they could try, but if you stand your ground and know your rights there isn't much they can do. If he forced his way into the trailer nothing he could find would be permissible for him to prosecute me.

I wish the original poster luck in his travels!

Tim

State Troopers and DOT in most states have special authority to pull your truck over and check it. The ones that are certified to do inspections can break seals on trailers and go inside the trailer and check for load securement. They are not specifically looking for drugs, but checking the load for hazmat and other materials. If I were you I would'nt get in a pis*ing contest with them, beacuse you might find out different. After 911 things even got stricter in certain areas of the regualtions, especially hazmat.
No argument here, but have you ever done much towing out of state that would be considered in commerce? It is a whole different situation when you cross state lines.

The best source of correct information for him would be from the Sate Troopers or DOT. They are the ones that enforce the regulations and laws. Also a person can read all about it at www.fmcsa.dot.gov/

Have a great evening

 

[moosecountry]

Glad that works by you, Around here if the trailer is over 10,001 LB, you need a CDL, no questions, RV's are exempt. I paid that fine, I don't want to do it again......Oh and I was empty at the time, so all I got hit was for no CDL when pulling a trailer taged @ 20K.

Aren't CDL requirements consistent across the country?

It clearly says if you are over 26K GCWR and towing over 10K then you need a cdl. If you trailer is tagged at 20K then you would be over the 26K combined rating unless you are driving an S10. But I am not over 26K combined. (9200 on the truck, 14K on the trailer)

Tim

 

[blizzardplowman]

Aren't CDL requirements consistent across the country?

It clearly says if you are over 26K GCWR and towing over 10K then you need a cdl. If you trailer is tagged at 20K then you would be over the 26K combined rating unless you are driving an S10. But I am not over 26K combined. (9200 on the truck, 14K on the trailer)

Tim

Its the 14K on the trailer, 10k your fine, 10,001 you're not. The law cares not if it personal or what, it's the weight. Was a major pain to get it all sorted out. Asked 10 different agencies and got 10 answers. But the 10k is the rule, plated for 10k good to go. I have the book and could scan it, but its 30 pages IIRC.

 

[moosecountry]

Its the 14K on the trailer, 10k your fine, 10,001 you're not. The law cares not if it personal or what, it's the weight. Was a major pain to get it all sorted out. Asked 10 different agencies and got 10 answers. But the 10k is the rule, plated for 10k good to go. I have the book and could scan it, but its 30 pages IIRC.

Here is the law right from the nh law books

(a) Operation of any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the vehicle(s) being towed has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more, shall require a class A commercial driver license. Holders of a class A commercial driver license may, with the appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within class B and C.

I was under the impression that this was consistent across states. Some mandate back in the '80's for CDL's. So unless I have a gross combined weight rating of 26,001 it does not matter how much my trailer weighs as long is that weight in combination with my truck weight is less than 26K. My truck is registered for 9200, so I could have a trailer with a rating of 16,800 and still be under the 26K cutoff.

I don't know how else it could be interpreted, but I am curious to hear more.

Tim

 

[BIGR]

Aren't CDL requirements consistent across the country?
It clearly says if you are over 26K GCWR and towing over 10K then you need a cdl. If you trailer is tagged at 20K then you would be over the 26K combined rating unless you are driving an S10. But I am not over 26K combined. (9200 on the truck, 14K on the trailer)
Tim

Tim, you are 100 percent correct on the CDL part. Here is the bummer though. Federal Regulations kick in just over the 10,000 LB. GVWR, if that vehicle is crossing state lines (which means interstate) if the vehicle is engaged in commerce. You gota understand that the regs. still apply to smaller non cdl type (box trucks etc.) vehicles.
1. You ask what is the federal definition of commerce?
Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition.
2. What is the federal definition of a commercial motor vehicle?
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle that has any of the following characteristics:
(1) A gross vehicle weight (GVW), gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), gross combination weight (GCW), or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 4,537 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more.
(2) Regardless of weight, is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers, including driver.
(3) Regardless of weight, is used in the transportation of hazardous materials and is required to be placarded pursuant to 49 CFR part 172, subpart F.
You think thats mind bogling you ought to be in an operation like some of these RV Haulers on here. They will tell you about all the crap they have to keep up with. The regs. book is over 2 or 3 inches thick.

 

[moosecountry]

Tim, you are 100 percent correct on the CDL part. Here is the bummer though. Federal Regulations kick in just over the 10,000 LB. GVWR, if that vehicle is crossing state lines (which means interstate) if the vehicle is engaged in commerce. You gota understand that the regs. still apply to smaller non cdl type (box trucks etc.) vehicles.
1. You ask what is the federal definition of commerce?
Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition.
2. What is the federal definition of a commercial motor vehicle?
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle that has any of the following characteristics:
(1) A gross vehicle weight (GVW), gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), gross combination weight (GCW), or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 4,537 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more.
(2) Regardless of weight, is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers, including driver.
(3) Regardless of weight, is used in the transportation of hazardous materials and is required to be placarded pursuant to 49 CFR part 172, subpart F.
You think thats mind bogling you ought to be in an operation like some of these RV Haulers on here. They will tell you about all the crap they have to keep up with. The regs. book is over 2 or 3 inches thick.

I guess I did not realize that above the CDL for state licensing, that there were additional laws that must be followed.

So under that definition, how are RV'ers exempt from following the guidlines in that book?

So much damn regulation!

Tim

 

[jodavis]

I guess I did not realize that above the CDL for state licensing, that there were additional laws that must be followed.

So under that definition, how are RV'ers exempt from following the guidlines in that book?

So much damn regulation!

Tim

All the CDL laws have specific exemptions written into them for a person pulling an RV that is theirs or a person who is completing agricultural buisness. That is how I dont get a ticket every time I haul peanuts to town. We haul them three trailers at a time ~15k lbs in each one (yes thats 45k lbs). You just go slow and hope no one is stupid enough to pull out in front of you.

 

[DnHolland]

Being that your GCW is not over 26,000 lbs. and your trailer weight is not over 10,000 lbs. and these are "your" trailers, You shouldn't have a problem with needing a CDL. However in order to take a trailer across state lines it must be tagged. Make sure that the trailer rolling on the ground has a tag on it and it is current. It should be registered to the person who signed the bill of sale, or better yet, you. That way if you get stopped there is proof for why you have these trailers. And if any of the stacked trailers have tags on them I would remove them. The only real issue you might have is with your insurance company. If the trailer on top falls off and crushes a $100,000 Mercedes, who's going to pay for it?

 

[Fuller Johnson]

Well.... It's going to be Kinda Hard to tell them that you are hauling 3 trailers for your Personal use.... And thats what everybody is going to do and they are used to it.... Good Luck on that one...

Now if you were haulling One Vehicle on a trailer or Other personal items they will likely believe that you are truley Non Commercial and the merchandise is for your own personal use....

Another thing... If you are hauling anything that you are going to sell thats Interstate commerce.... They have been giving the Flea Market guys Fits...

If you bought something for your own Non Commercial use and are taking it home it is already your property so it don't qualify as a Bussiness...

I know a guy that was haulling a Bunch of Salvage tractors and they ran out of paper to write tickets.... No CDL, No proper equipment, Over 26,000.... Ect... Ect...

Now if he would have had ONE hobby Tractor and was taking it home for His HOBBY I bet there would have not been a problem...

If you do get stopped be Very Carefull what you tell them...

 

[RayMich]

If you are still set on hauling these trailers for your cousin, I would suggest that your cousin should travel with you and have all the paperwork showing that he is related to you and HE owns all the trailers and that they are NOT for resale and you are not being paid to haul them. If the trailers are for resale, you are by default hauling for business and I would think that you will have to meet all DOT regulations, including a chauffeur's license from your home state, a current logbook, safety inspection, DOT number and approved insurance, medical card, fire extinguisher, safety triangles, fuel permits, etc.

As stated earlier, whether you fall uner DOT regulations or not, your insurance company will have a big stake on this trip so I would contact them and check to see if you are covered.

All these regulations really suck, but the last thing you want is to be thrown in jail in some "Podunk" town in BFE with no way to get your truck out of hock. (Watch out in Louisiana, their laws allow them to confiscate your rig.)