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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
I holiday in British Columbia Canada in the summer and their enforcement is strong. The saying is if you can't pass all the restrictions leave your trailer and come back when you have a real truck.

The reason for the enforcement is dangerous mountainous road conditions and people traveling over the limits of their vehicle. Many had trailer brake failures which resulted in them not being able to stop with their tow vehicle alone.
 

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I holiday in British Columbia Canada in the summer and their enforcement is strong. The saying is if you can't pass all the restrictions leave your trailer and come back when you have a real truck.

The reason for the enforcement is dangerous mountainous road conditions and people traveling over the limits of their vehicle. Many had trailer brake failures which resulted in them not being able to stop with their tow vehicle alone.
I'm a firm believer that you should have a turbo brake if you tow any weight in the mountains. I even use it on steep downgrades empty to save on my brakes. Even with a 16,000 lb (actual weight) trailer I have no brakeing problems in the Rocky's.
 

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Bridge Formula Weights- FHWA Freight Management and Operations

This is the formula used by the DOT. Obviously I would not recommend loading our axles to 22,000 lbs (20,000 single axle plus 10% variance). I tow commercially with a CDL with the truck in my signature. I stop as required at all weigh stations and run a log. I've been inspected many times and always been found legal. I have towed a trailer as heavy as 21,000 lbs (actual not GVWR) and been weighed at the stations ( they did look at my tires).
I think the bridge formula applies to tractor trailer units, not 3/4 to trucks & 5th wheel combo's. I'm asking if you plow into the back of someone, when you are over your rated axle weight & kill or injure someone, are you legal? I mean, is your insurance going to be standing behind you, or running the other direction. Because being over weight is just a fine & inconvenience from a DOT point of view, but being over weight & running over someone because you couldn't stop is life changing, for both parties.
 

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I think the bridge formula applies to tractor trailer units, not 3/4 to trucks & 5th wheel combo's. I'm asking if you plow into the back of someone, when you are over your rated axle weight & kill or injure someone, are you legal? I mean, is your insurance going to be standing behind you, or running the other direction. Because being over weight is just a fine & inconvenience from a DOT point of view, but being over weight & running over someone because you couldn't stop is life changing, for both parties.
It is for ALL trucks, that is why it states a singe axle weight. If you don't believe the documents call the listed phone number for the state of your choice and ask the officer in charge, (go to the site home, lots more information) I did before I started doing this. Once again, trailers are engineered with brakes to stop their max GVWR so if your truck brakes are in order you will have no problem stopping.

Yes I am insured with a commercial policy, they have my vehicle VIN and are fully aware of what I tow. My truck is also legally tagged for 26,000 lbs.

Keeping the DOT happy is not a convenience thing either, you get stopped and placed out of service plus some nasty fines and the safety violations I previously mentioned for both you and your company. You are very naive if you think that is not a big deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
A big consideration with commercial trucking vs RV towing is Air Brakes when the fail they are full on. Electric brakes on the other hand are completely off if the electrical circuit fails. At that point the tow vehicle has to do all of the braking. Old engine braking systems on 3/4 tons are effective but they are not when the trailer starts push hard when it's brakes have failed. The electric emergency brake only works in a case of disattachment. I assume commercial vehicles have a emergency air dump valve?

For interest sake this is the guidelines for towing in BC
http://www.cvse.ca/vehicle_inspections/PDF/MV3230.pdf
notice this statement
"Motor Vehicle Act Regulations in British Columbia prohibit the operation of vehicles that are unsafe or improperly loaded and exceed either the Gross Axle Rating (GAWR) or the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)."
This means you leave your trailer until someone with a bigger truck can tow it for you. Note the GM and Ford Dealership in Golden do very well with unwitty American tourists
 

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All I can say is I don't tow in Canada and do not know their rules and never claimed to. In the US I am legal and do not feel unsafe with a perfect safety record.
 

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OK, this conversation is pointless, I really don't care what you do, all I know is that you are too heavy for a 3/4 ton truck. Every one has a "perfect safety record" until something happens, & if you're that "naive", I'm glad your in Florida, & I'm not.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Federal Bridge Formula made US federal law in 1974 to protect roads and bridges. Only still valid due to certain state governments lack of due diligence in creating new and adequate laws. I don't think law makers 41 years ago could conceive that in future horsepower ratings would go up high enough too make grossly overloaded vehicles not only movable but driveable.

P.S. Florida is limited by manufacture's stated Gross weight and NOT the federal bridge formula. Your not even legal in your own state!
 

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You guys are hopeless. What part of call the DOT numbers do you not understand? Call Florida I did. If you read all the information on the site you will read Congress passed a law, States cannot override federal DOT standards. When I drive I am required to weigh, I have NEVER been found overweight, some states require permits to pass through them the weight is clearly listed and they WEIGH me. Some states that require pass through permits are Nevada, Idaho, Arizona, and Wyoming. Saturday I towed through Idaho and Nevada. Thursday I towed through Idaho on my way to deliver to Washington. I have towed over 92,000 miles this season alone.....folks that's a lot of weight stations, I specialize in CDL loads because alot of drivers feel it is too hard on their trucks this keeps me busy, even during this year that was very slow. I pulled the heaviest trailer I have pulled as a rescue mission for a friend who's truck tranny expired, it was in Florida. I went through two WEIGH stations on I10 that is where they came out and checked the load rating of the tires. They passed me. Trailer was a car hauler with the broken dodge dually and a Buick GS, the rest of the slots were emty but it still weighed 21,000 lbs. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachments/76-speciality-forums/222-towing/392009d1444006773-pictures-what-you-tow-haul-20151004_172450.jpg http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachments/76-speciality-forums/222-towing/375185d1438729164-pictures-what-you-tow-haul-20150804_091313.jpg http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachments/76-speciality-forums/222-towing/371089d1437108242-pictures-what-you-tow-haul-img_0269.jpghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachments/76-speciality-forums/222-towing/371089d1437108242-pictures-what-you-tow-haul-img_0269.jpg
 

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I think part of the problem is you are all comparing apples to oranges. Commercial regs
are different than rv regs. Also, the file Can Yeager posted was for motor homes and
the topic is 5th wheel towing. This topic is discussed all the time, and there is never going to be a consensus :(
 

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Well I was assuming he would be towing a fifth wheel RV, and was honestly trying to help out the OP.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Well I looked into what the DOT transportation had to say and they provided this document.
From NHTSA National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
DOT HS 809 433 April 2002
Have a look at page 4
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwi4pfnx1uHIAhVJO4gKHWprBDQ&url=http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/towing/Towing.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF88OXjPEJU2d3CxJatbJkhoxpoMA

I suppose your are going to tell me this DOT document is just advisory material.
 

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Well I looked into what the DOT transportation had to say and they provided this document.
From NHTSA National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
DOT HS 809 433 April 2002
Have a look at page 4
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwi4pfnx1uHIAhVJO4gKHWprBDQ&url=http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/towing/Towing.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF88OXjPEJU2d3CxJatbJkhoxpoMA

I suppose your are going to tell me this DOT document is just advisory material.
As a matter of fact it is advised, for the hobbyist. I do not see anything that mentions illegality or says "you are not allowed". Go to this link: Bridge Formula Weights- FHWA Freight Management and Operations

This has all the latest updates for commercial towing and is " THE" website. For your edification, FHWA is Federal Highway Administration. If you go through the whole site you will find when Congress standardized the weights and regulations.

If I am doing everything illegal why am I passing all my inspections and passing on every time I scale? You do realize all commercial vehicle are required to stop at all WEIGH stations?

I've posted all relevant data now if you can't grasp it and still think I'm wrong then fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Simply stated I am not using or interested in commercial vehicle ratings. The bridge formula is just as it sounds a formula to prevent damage to a bridge or road. As you can see by the motorhome chart not all states use the bridge formula. Now that is not to say you don't have to comply to the federal standards but the State laws are in addition to the federal laws.
Regardless of how you choose to load your 3/4 ton I have my chart which will accurately and legally tell me my limits in all states and all provinces which was intention in the first place.
 

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obviously there is a difference between the manufacturers weight ratings and the
govts weight ratings. It just depends on whose you intend to follow.
 

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obviously there is a difference between the manufacturers weight ratings and the
govts weight ratings. It just depends on whose you intend to follow.
The government is all that matters as far as legality. Point is moot if he isn't going to be towing that large a fifth wheel. Don't understand why he is arguing:confuzeld
 

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I found this on the California dmv site:

(c) The maximum wheel load is the lesser of the following:
(1) The load limit established by the tire manufacturer, on the tire sidewall.
(2) A load of 620 pounds per lateral inch of tire width, as determined by the manufacturer's rated tire width on the tire sidewall. The steering axle, however, must go by the load limit by the tire manufacturer.

so by his chart, he can not exceed 2843lbs on the rear axle, at least by California law.
 

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I found this on the California dmv site:

(c) The maximum wheel load is the lesser of the following:
(1) The load limit established by the tire manufacturer, on the tire sidewall.
(2) A load of 620 pounds per lateral inch of tire width, as determined by the manufacturer's rated tire width on the tire sidewall. The steering axle, however, must go by the load limit by the tire manufacturer.

so by his chart, he can not exceed 2843lbs on the rear axle, at least by California law.
620 x 5.5" tread width is 3415 lbs x two tires = 6830 lbs on rear axle.
Our tires are generally wider than this which is the tire manufacturers "margin of safety".

However if the sidewall states a lower weight that is the limit.
 

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What is the minimum/maximum single axle weight limit that States must enforce on the Interstate System?
It is 20,000 pounds or a higher grandfathered weight.

May States set weight limits on the Interstate System at less than the Federal maximum weight limits?
No. When Interstate System weight limits were raised to the current levels in 1974 (20,000 pounds single axle, 34,000 pounds tandem axle, 80,000 pounds overall gross weight limits, plus bridge formula limits), States were not required to raise their limits accordingly, although most did. However, six contiguous States in the Mississippi Valley, referred to as the "barrier States," did not and effectively limited the weight for all vehicles moving across them to their own limits. This was changed in 1982 when Congress established Interstate System weight limits as minimums as well as maximums.

Pulled this from the FHWA sites link I posted. There is way more information about commercial towing and what is allowed and expected. Also covers logs, resets, etc etc.
 
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