There is nothing Z Seventy Fun about this (yet)
6.5 BUILD
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Thanks
Also got a couple PM's to sell F-vin uppers from 20 and 40 bucks plus ship.
LESSON 1,348
DON'T GUT YOUR S-VIN UPPER IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. IT TAKES LIKE HOURS. And sucks. And the uppers can be had reasonable.
However, I will run the ported S-vin for awhile with the EGR to see if I get codes with how I have it for future reference.
paleyjim had a spare F-code ECU I will swap in later to see if I get any more grunt out.
Had a migraine last night so no work got done, Was hoping to get it running.
Whats left to do:
Run all the fuel lines and secure to the frame.
Install the tank and straps.
Hook up filler neck, vent, and filler neck ground
Remove fuel solenoid and IP fitting, document number of turns on IP fitting
Disassemble IP fitting
Port IP fitting
Reassemble IP fitting
Install FFM to IP and connect to fuel line
Install new hoses to T-valve
Clean out intake manifold bolt holes
reconnect IP harness etc
Install Intake Manifold gaskets and lower manifold
Reattach grounds and other misc, install FFM mount and clip in harnesses
Upper IM and turbo boot
Bleed system check for leaks
Role cole?
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You can probably save yourself some time and not bore out the IP regulator fitting holes.
I'm running a whole lot hotter tune without it.
I'm running a whole lot hotter tune without it.
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Hammered though everything up to the t-valve hoses... Sofar...Thanks to my GM dealer tech friend Robby! Ready for diesel almost!!!! Took good pics of the IP fitting porting I did a couple nights ago. Hoping to be done in the next few hours now. Getting ready to pressurize the fuel system and check for leaks and start putting the manifold in!!! Super excited, in fact I just peed my Pabst. :HiHi:
The chiropractor asked me how I wasn't in a wheelchair when I came in, my neck had 4 out of 7 vertebrae out of alignment ( similar to a car accident) in my neck form all this truck work under the truck. Pretty sore but no headaches now.
The chiropractor asked me how I wasn't in a wheelchair when I came in, my neck had 4 out of 7 vertebrae out of alignment ( similar to a car accident) in my neck form all this truck work under the truck. Pretty sore but no headaches now.
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So the other night I ported my IP pressure regulating valve.
Remove intake manifold.
Clean the top of the IP. Don't want crumb in the IP.
Remove fuel solenoid. 13 mm hex and a dangly bit of wire.
Special socket to clear the bump in the ip housing (made by 6.5 wizard paleyjim) Might not need it if you turn on the inlet fitting, but if I clicked the extension out of the detent and was able to clear the inlet barb. It's a 3/4" socket.
It's out. Pull off the last ditch screen. Just pinch the small end of the cone and wiggle and pull, it's seated on an o-ring that kind of forms into the screen, and with some wiggling will pull down.
Remove the inlet barb.
Using a hex hey, remove the orifice plug. A standard sized hex key worked fine don't remember the size.
Important, this orifice plug is retaining a spring that governs the internal pressure of the IP. You need to count the turns to take this plug out so you can remove it and reinstall with approx the same setting. Mine came out with 8.5 turns. I put it back in 10 turns after porting to increase case pressure in the pump. Removal of the internals was very easy and is critical for proper cleaning of the valve body before reinstallation.
Go to town enlarging the holes. I think I about tripled the size of them. The material is extremely hard, the carbide was pretty much junk on the tip of the cone right off the bat, had to use this fine, hard stone to get it started so the carbide could get down the cone and the edges wouldn't chip off. Went quick once it got to a certain size.
Clean valve body and deburr.
Reinstall the plunger slug, spring, and the orifice plug. I would not bump up the pressure unless you have an aftermarket lift pump that makes good pressure.
Install the last ditch screen.
Winner.
Remove intake manifold.
Clean the top of the IP. Don't want crumb in the IP.
Remove fuel solenoid. 13 mm hex and a dangly bit of wire.
Special socket to clear the bump in the ip housing (made by 6.5 wizard paleyjim) Might not need it if you turn on the inlet fitting, but if I clicked the extension out of the detent and was able to clear the inlet barb. It's a 3/4" socket.
It's out. Pull off the last ditch screen. Just pinch the small end of the cone and wiggle and pull, it's seated on an o-ring that kind of forms into the screen, and with some wiggling will pull down.
Remove the inlet barb.
Using a hex hey, remove the orifice plug. A standard sized hex key worked fine don't remember the size.
Important, this orifice plug is retaining a spring that governs the internal pressure of the IP. You need to count the turns to take this plug out so you can remove it and reinstall with approx the same setting. Mine came out with 8.5 turns. I put it back in 10 turns after porting to increase case pressure in the pump. Removal of the internals was very easy and is critical for proper cleaning of the valve body before reinstallation.
Go to town enlarging the holes. I think I about tripled the size of them. The material is extremely hard, the carbide was pretty much junk on the tip of the cone right off the bat, had to use this fine, hard stone to get it started so the carbide could get down the cone and the edges wouldn't chip off. Went quick once it got to a certain size.
Clean valve body and deburr.
Reinstall the plunger slug, spring, and the orifice plug. I would not bump up the pressure unless you have an aftermarket lift pump that makes good pressure.
Install the last ditch screen.
Winner.
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So after a hard push Friday and Saturday, the truck was running by noon Saturday. I didn't take a bunch of pictures because it was reassembly ad nauseum. Tools everywhere. Stuff to zip tie. Forgotten connectors. Fishing all the dropped tools from the belly of the beast. Bleeding the fuel system.
I've only driven the truck about 10 miles to go get fuel and wash it.
The initial impressions are that yes, it runs, somehow i didnt screw anything up while having it apart that far.
There is not alot of difference in the acceleration. If any at all. Maybe I need to shake it down more. I'm optimistic that the truck won't stall any more but it's a spirit breaker to know it's still slow and didn't gain top power that I figured the egr stuff was killing.
Paleyjim lent me his spare F-code ecm, I'll pop that in next week sometime and see if it helps.
It's been a heck of a project, the Subaru has had to haul hay a few times and somehow didn't break down!. The black stuff on the side of the car is from losing a valve cover bolt and it crapping all the oil out on my way to work, luckily I didn't shell the engine. Super scary considering the truck was down for three more weeks after that, glad it's together now.
I've only driven the truck about 10 miles to go get fuel and wash it.
The initial impressions are that yes, it runs, somehow i didnt screw anything up while having it apart that far.
There is not alot of difference in the acceleration. If any at all. Maybe I need to shake it down more. I'm optimistic that the truck won't stall any more but it's a spirit breaker to know it's still slow and didn't gain top power that I figured the egr stuff was killing.
Paleyjim lent me his spare F-code ecm, I'll pop that in next week sometime and see if it helps.
It's been a heck of a project, the Subaru has had to haul hay a few times and somehow didn't break down!. The black stuff on the side of the car is from losing a valve cover bolt and it crapping all the oil out on my way to work, luckily I didn't shell the engine. Super scary considering the truck was down for three more weeks after that, glad it's together now.
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Paleyjim let me try out his spare F-code ecu. Firmer shifts, more eager acceleration, but it doesn't build speed any faster than with the S-vin. It feels like there is more power and inspires more confidence but doesn't make a difference getting to 50 mph. I never pulled the battery cable from the old ECU's learn on the poor quality fuel system either though. Might try to switch back to really experience the difference before making an official decision.
The truck stalled, transfer case in 4 low while idling in park. I'm not sure what is causing that, but it has always done that from time to time now I'm sure it's not fuel related. Frustrating.
Going to optic bump it once I get settled on an ECU.
Still haven't gotten the new drivers seat. Im down a few glow plugs the truck makes an insane amount of smoke on startup. Still need to do the trans fluid and it's due for an oil change and the rear diff is leaking worse.
The truck stalled, transfer case in 4 low while idling in park. I'm not sure what is causing that, but it has always done that from time to time now I'm sure it's not fuel related. Frustrating.
Going to optic bump it once I get settled on an ECU.
Still haven't gotten the new drivers seat. Im down a few glow plugs the truck makes an insane amount of smoke on startup. Still need to do the trans fluid and it's due for an oil change and the rear diff is leaking worse.
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Did you do a TDCO learn after swapping the ECU? Make sure to do that for an accurate comparison.
The S timing curve is actually more responsive and tailored to the smaller pre cups. I wouldn't be surprised if you like your original one with an optic bump more than the F. But then you'll have EGR codes maybe.
The S timing curve is actually more responsive and tailored to the smaller pre cups. I wouldn't be surprised if you like your original one with an optic bump more than the F. But then you'll have EGR codes maybe.
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I did not learn TDCO. Haven't taken the time to learn that whole TDCO learn/adjustment gig, will read up on that.
Didn't have EGR codes when I ran the S-code a couple days with how the intake is ported... EGR is hooked up normally just doesn't do anything. AFAIK, you can just cap off the solenoid vac to the EGR valve and you won't get EGR codes...
Thanks for that tip on the S-code, will give it a very discerning second chance. Want to get it fingered out so you can get an OBD2 ECU to play with.
Last tank over the past week was approx 15.5 mpg.
Didn't have EGR codes when I ran the S-code a couple days with how the intake is ported... EGR is hooked up normally just doesn't do anything. AFAIK, you can just cap off the solenoid vac to the EGR valve and you won't get EGR codes...
Thanks for that tip on the S-code, will give it a very discerning second chance. Want to get it fingered out so you can get an OBD2 ECU to play with.
Last tank over the past week was approx 15.5 mpg.
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Definitely do the TDCO learn on both so you have a real comparison. The F you swapped in is still set to the value from the last truck it was in and is injecting at a different time. Could be a subtle or huge difference.....depends on what value it has learned :thumb:
And yea you won't get EGR issues until you go vac pump delete (as long as you have the lines connected like you do)
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An update.
Swapped the S-vin back in. The transmission response became mushy and soft. The truck is quick to downshift, and makes no power when it does. SOMETIMES it makes more power (probably during theoretical EGR events), but most of the time, it doesn't. In otherwords, it sucks. Alot. It feels like a 4.3 V6 truck pulling a loaded trailer all the time. I am going to do a TDCO learn on it when I get the sequence right. If it still sucks, quadstar can play with it, maybe set it on fire in a Denny's parking lot.
The truck is still stalling-both at idle and while rolling down the road, at roughly the same rate as before I did all the work. Have one more ground strap to get at before I set the truck on fire in a Denny's parking lot. The bolt is rounded off and siezed on the frame and the downpipe is in the way of getting to the firewall. Will have to pull the downpipe and maybe the airbox to work on it.
Swapped the S-vin back in. The transmission response became mushy and soft. The truck is quick to downshift, and makes no power when it does. SOMETIMES it makes more power (probably during theoretical EGR events), but most of the time, it doesn't. In otherwords, it sucks. Alot. It feels like a 4.3 V6 truck pulling a loaded trailer all the time. I am going to do a TDCO learn on it when I get the sequence right. If it still sucks, quadstar can play with it, maybe set it on fire in a Denny's parking lot.
The truck is still stalling-both at idle and while rolling down the road, at roughly the same rate as before I did all the work. Have one more ground strap to get at before I set the truck on fire in a Denny's parking lot. The bolt is rounded off and siezed on the frame and the downpipe is in the way of getting to the firewall. Will have to pull the downpipe and maybe the airbox to work on it.
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That's interesting. They must have made more changes in OBD2 between the trucks. Just go inside and get some pancakes to cool off a little bit :HiHi:
That ground strap by the downpipe is the important one since the PCM and trans both ground there along with the engine sensors. Just run an additional strap or something instead of pulling all that crap out of the way. It's just a ground, doesn't have to be fancy.
BUT, jiggle your PMD harness connector (s) with it idling and see if it shuts off. That was my latest issue that had me scratching my head...actually had to replace the factory piece of harness that goes between the lower intake wiring and the IP/Fuel Solenoid. Also do your troubleshooting without an extension cable to eliminate that from the puzzle.
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Sucks that it is still giving you problems. Does it fire right back up again when it stalls or do you have to crank a bunch, or wait a while, or cycle the key, or ???? Does your WTS light and check engine light function normally when cycling the key after a stall? Is the check engine light on when it stalls?
How long is your extension harness? If you want, we can swap extension harnesses sometime and see if your problem moves to my truck. I believe mine is 6'.
There is a 3 pin connector near the PCM that you should check out. I think is has a red and 2 black (or maybe 2 red and 1 black) wires. I found that one of the pins in this connector was not making good contact when I had an intermittent stall. Should only take you a few minutes to pull your glovebox, locate this, and inspect it.
Clean or replace that last ground. Maybe it isn't the problem, but taking care of it is good PM anyway on these old trucks.
If all else fails, we can probably try swapping trucks for a bit. Maybe I'll notice something you didn't. Maybe not.
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No stalling Friday or Saturday. Ran the truck hard (beat the piss out of it) and it didn't skip a beat both days
I got a nasty cold and have been undergoing therapy for an injury I got working on this truck (possibly) but after laying on a heating pad for 20 hours I decided to work on the truck some more. Pulled the downpipe. The SS hardware I used on the downpipe flange was seized and I had to physically break one bolt off. Wrecked my 9/16 gearwrench in the process using it as a backer. The others were just fine. Super annoying paying for SS and having it be the same crap as steel anyway... I did have a major exhaust leak at the v-band that is now fixed.
Redid the ground. It appeared fine, still had bright metal on both rings to the frame. Ive seen much much worse. That was a huge pain and tough to get a dremel in there to clean up the ground stud or the frame. You can't physically see either of them while dremeling them.
Put it all back together and it went together without a struggle. Took it down the road and it stalled hard in the middle of the road. With ignition cycles, I had intermittent lift pump, sometimes it would fire other times not but no glows. Finally I was getting the service engine soon light flashing and alot of clicking under the hood. I noticed that the AC compressor clutch was rapidly cycling. I turned off the defrost, cycled the igniton and I had LP and glows and the truck restarted. Stalled for about 10 minutes.
Once the truck started to run again it seemed like I picked up some power and the idle sounds more like Jim's truck now, but I'm just glad I got it home.
But now I trust it even less than before.
I got a nasty cold and have been undergoing therapy for an injury I got working on this truck (possibly) but after laying on a heating pad for 20 hours I decided to work on the truck some more. Pulled the downpipe. The SS hardware I used on the downpipe flange was seized and I had to physically break one bolt off. Wrecked my 9/16 gearwrench in the process using it as a backer. The others were just fine. Super annoying paying for SS and having it be the same crap as steel anyway... I did have a major exhaust leak at the v-band that is now fixed.
Redid the ground. It appeared fine, still had bright metal on both rings to the frame. Ive seen much much worse. That was a huge pain and tough to get a dremel in there to clean up the ground stud or the frame. You can't physically see either of them while dremeling them.
Put it all back together and it went together without a struggle. Took it down the road and it stalled hard in the middle of the road. With ignition cycles, I had intermittent lift pump, sometimes it would fire other times not but no glows. Finally I was getting the service engine soon light flashing and alot of clicking under the hood. I noticed that the AC compressor clutch was rapidly cycling. I turned off the defrost, cycled the igniton and I had LP and glows and the truck restarted. Stalled for about 10 minutes.
Once the truck started to run again it seemed like I picked up some power and the idle sounds more like Jim's truck now, but I'm just glad I got it home.
But now I trust it even less than before.
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Jim is a good guy! Hope you can collaborate and get these weird electrical issues figured out. Probably some strange ground or connection issue...we've all been there before.
Everything you have done so far is good work. Once you get the original issue sorted, it'll be a strong runner for sure.
Everything you have done so far is good work. Once you get the original issue sorted, it'll be a strong runner for sure.
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Quadstar, Jim is a great guy, and he's smart to boot. I'm not sure where he picked up all this technical support stuff.
I am hoping for a good runner... Now that I have 10k in it... I'm still hoping for a good runner. Should have bought a ****ing gas truck!!!!
So I was hoping to drive the truck around in the daylight and fight with it and get it to replicate the issue but passed out with a migraine when I got home till about 9pm. Thank
The 3 pin connector is for the blower motor. The pins were corroded from mouse piss but the blower still worked, I cleaned them up anyway. I did not find any evidence of mouse chewed wires at all. I disconnected all of the connectors and laid it out on the floor and carefully inspected for bad wires or mouse chewed wires. Did not find any suspects. Or smoking guns.
The only way I can replicate the issue is to disconnect the blue pcm connector. There is another connector that was bundled up with the blower connector... This bigger connector thats visible in this pcture. If I disconnect that the wait to start light is dimmer but not "out". It's only out if I disconnect the blue PCM connector. So whatever the problem is it has something to do with the wires to or from the PCM. And it only ever seems to stall if the truck is to temperature or is warm. I haven't had a cold no start since I bought the truck and had a bad lift pump ground.
Jim and I both think it is a ground issues, so his suggestion is to splice in new ground paths into the ground wiresfloorhe PCM connector. He made me up a nice sheet and everything showing the wires to splice, but I don't mess with wires after midnight. Always turns out bad.
I am hoping for a good runner... Now that I have 10k in it... I'm still hoping for a good runner. Should have bought a ****ing gas truck!!!!
So I was hoping to drive the truck around in the daylight and fight with it and get it to replicate the issue but passed out with a migraine when I got home till about 9pm. Thank
The 3 pin connector is for the blower motor. The pins were corroded from mouse piss but the blower still worked, I cleaned them up anyway. I did not find any evidence of mouse chewed wires at all. I disconnected all of the connectors and laid it out on the floor and carefully inspected for bad wires or mouse chewed wires. Did not find any suspects. Or smoking guns.
The only way I can replicate the issue is to disconnect the blue pcm connector. There is another connector that was bundled up with the blower connector... This bigger connector thats visible in this pcture. If I disconnect that the wait to start light is dimmer but not "out". It's only out if I disconnect the blue PCM connector. So whatever the problem is it has something to do with the wires to or from the PCM. And it only ever seems to stall if the truck is to temperature or is warm. I haven't had a cold no start since I bought the truck and had a bad lift pump ground.
Jim and I both think it is a ground issues, so his suggestion is to splice in new ground paths into the ground wiresfloorhe PCM connector. He made me up a nice sheet and everything showing the wires to splice, but I don't mess with wires after midnight. Always turns out bad.
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If I'm not mistaken, disconnecting the blue connector should remove all the power and ground to the PCM. That will certainly kill your check engine and WTS lights as well as the lift pump and prevent starting.
Additional grounding will typically never hurt and it is a lot easier than trying to track down all of your power and ground wires to the PCM to verify they are ok.
Additional grounding will typically never hurt and it is a lot easier than trying to track down all of your power and ground wires to the PCM to verify they are ok.
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Ran the redundant PCM ground and cleaned a small chassis ground by the passenger side battery.
The truck still stalled when I turned on the HVAC fan (could be unrelated). Hard, 5min plus with no start/no glows but lift pump is working on key cycles. This time it wasn't as haywire seeming didn't have the flashing and clattering of the A/C compressor. Finally it was like BING lets go again, and I drove it for 30 minutes no issues.
Some observations:
Rushing sound when fuel cap is opened. Cant tell whether pressure or vac. Due to the Swiss cheese nature of the old fuel tank its possible I have a bad fuel cap. Next attempt is going to be running with the fuel cap off. Fuel related issues before killed the lift pump AND the glows (and fuel heater) at the same time because the PCM breaker kicks off. This is just run/glows.
The truck stalls hard at roughly the same temperature like 180 ish when warming up. Once it stalls once, it seems like its done, cant get it to do it again. Beating it, babying it whatever. The way its been stalling for months is just sort of random, when its good and warmed up and cruising down the road or idling.
Yep stumped...
The truck still stalled when I turned on the HVAC fan (could be unrelated). Hard, 5min plus with no start/no glows but lift pump is working on key cycles. This time it wasn't as haywire seeming didn't have the flashing and clattering of the A/C compressor. Finally it was like BING lets go again, and I drove it for 30 minutes no issues.
Some observations:
Rushing sound when fuel cap is opened. Cant tell whether pressure or vac. Due to the Swiss cheese nature of the old fuel tank its possible I have a bad fuel cap. Next attempt is going to be running with the fuel cap off. Fuel related issues before killed the lift pump AND the glows (and fuel heater) at the same time because the PCM breaker kicks off. This is just run/glows.
The truck stalls hard at roughly the same temperature like 180 ish when warming up. Once it stalls once, it seems like its done, cant get it to do it again. Beating it, babying it whatever. The way its been stalling for months is just sort of random, when its good and warmed up and cruising down the road or idling.
Yep stumped...
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