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Discussion Starter #1
I think that most on this forum understand our trucks suspension enough to see that green keys are a way to get more lift than the stockers will allow (on some trucks). I mean, any way you look at it, both methods change the preload of the torsion bar. There also seems to be a very common misconception out there that green keys by themselves will somehow improve ride quality over cranked stock keys. Why do some many people believe this?

I am trying my best to explain to the folks in this thread and set them straight, but to no avail. My posts start at the top of the second page.
http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=68930

If I'm off-base, somebody set ME straight... :rolleyes:
 

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One thing I have always wondered was why GM offers them. If cranking your T bars causes suspesion problems, why do they offer a part that allows you to crank them even more? Maybe I am confused too. I wish the darn things had IFS W/ coilovers. (I'm sure there are also a ton that like the current setup or wish for a straight axle) I guess Fabtech has a coilover setup now.
 

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Green Keys Let You Start Out Higher And Don't Put As Much Preload On The Torsion Bars As Cranked Up Ones Do. I've Done It Both Ways And The Green Keys Do Ride Better.
 

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Oh no not another one of these threads...
 

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Green Keys Let You Start Out Higher And Don't Put As Much Preload On The Torsion Bars As Cranked Up Ones Do. I've Done It Both Ways And The Green Keys Do Ride Better.
While the Green keys do not put more preload on the bars if set to same heiht, they DO put more preload on the bars if ride height is increased. Increased preload is what raises the truck...
 

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I Put Mine In And Just Had To Turn Them Enough To Keep The Bolts In.it Raised The Truck Almost 2 Inches. But I Understand If You Cranked Them All The Way Up. It Would Be The Same.as Stock Cranked Up
 

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Discussion Starter #7
SCQTT,
GM does not offer them for the purposes of raising the truck. The "green" keys are the stock keys on the K1500 series trucks. It just so happpens that they work can be used on the 2500 as well.

So, can anybody provide me with a logical explanation of why they would affect the ride of the truck, assuming the same height? Stock keys cranked up 2" versus the green keys set at the exact same height. Same exact ride, correct? Everything I have learned over the years tell me that there is no way the green keys will affect ride, assuming the overall height is the same. Am I wrong?
 

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It seems to me the amount of torsion (hence the name) is what lifts the truck. Therefore I do not see how the green keys can do anything other than allow it to be raised higher than the stock without the same amount of torsion at the same height and same ride quality as well. JMHO.
 

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The way I have always understood it is that the green keys re-index the torsion bar, so that you have more room to crank them up, there is still the same amount of force on the torsion bar, but with the green keys, the end of the key is more in the stock location, compared to a cranked up stock key, where you have like 1.5 inches of bolt between the key and the crossmember. I still takes the same amount of force on the bar to lift the truck.
 

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Changing keys is the equivalent of clicking back a ratchet or taking a new bit with a pipe wrench pure ans simple...
 

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I thought of an easy way to put this. If you take away the crossmember and the key, then you just have the hex shaped back of the torsion bar, and you put a breaker bar on it, it doesnt matter if you are at 90 degrees or 176, you still would have to pull just as hard to put the truck at the height that you want. i dunno, made sense in my messed up head.
 

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I have had torsion bars in and out of so many trucks I can do it in my sleep, and no matter what key you use, the higher the truck is from stock, the worse the ride will be.

If you take a stock truck and crank the bars all the way, and you get your truck to say 41" fender hieght. Then you put the green keys in the same truck and barley crank, but still get the 41" hieght, the ride will be 100% the same. All the green key does is allow you to twist the bar more than the stock key. The more you twist the bar, the more tension it puts on the lower control arm. It actually pushes the LCA down, raising the truck up. The more tension put on the bar the worse the ride becomes. Adding better shocks will help some, but IMO it is never going to be the same as stock.
 

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Green Keys Let You Start Out Higher And Don't Put As Much Preload On The Torsion Bars As Cranked Up Ones Do. I've Done It Both Ways And The Green Keys Do Ride Better.

:exactly: :agreed:
 

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:exactly: what 00sierra said, and most before him.
 

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One thing I have always wondered was why GM offers them. If cranking your T bars causes suspesion problems, why do they offer a part that allows you to crank them even more? Maybe I am confused too. I wish the darn things had IFS W/ coilovers. (I'm sure there are also a ton that like the current setup or wish for a straight axle) I guess Fabtech has a coilover setup now.
The green keys are not an aftermarket part, they are just the keys for a 1/2 ton 4x4 truck.
 

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Green Keys Let You Start Out Higher And Don't Put As Much Preload On The Torsion Bars As Cranked Up Ones Do. I've Done It Both Ways And The Green Keys Do Ride Better.
You could not be more wrong! They do the exact same thing, THERE IS NOTHING DIFFERENT! Well, the difference is the factory keys allow you to make adjustments from 0" to 1-2". While the 1/2 ton keys make adjustments from about 1 1/2" to maybe 3"

I was only able to get about 5/8"-3/4" with the factory keys, and the 1/2 ton keys gave me a minimum of 2 1/4"

If you raise the front suspension 2" (Or any other hieght!) with new keys or by adjusting the original keys, the ride will be exactly the same! That is all there is to it!

Where the bad ride comes in, is by raising the hieght to a piont where you lose upward travel, which causes a rough or harsh ride. (This can be due to the shocks topping out before the bonce would have topped out.)
 

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Where the bad ride comes in, is by raising the hieght to a piont where you lose upward travel, which causes a rough or harsh ride. (This can be due to the shocks topping out before the bonce would have topped out.)
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True!
 

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I've had the front end up with both the green keys and by cranking the stock keys. For an equal amount of lift the ride is the same.

Trucks with lift kits on them seem to ride better for the most part, I'm not sure if that is due to better shocks or to something else. My brother just put a Rancho 4" lift put on his truck, if it rides better than mine I think I'll be going the lifted route.
 

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The only thing green keys do is change the bolts for a given tension. If you want more height (tension) and your bolts are bottomed out - then you need to go with green keys.

There is no more or less preload on the bars (for a given height). There is no different ride for a given height (tension).

They don't ride better because they don't do anything differently to get to the prescribed height (tension). Any ride difference probably comes from your mind thinking that if I spent money and installed a part then it must ride better.

I bet the "lift kits" that consist of a $200 key--- ride lots better too!

Now- should we debate the Cognito leveling kit's value?
 

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Now- should we debate the Cognito leveling kit's value?
This is a totally different issue and there is merit to the statement that the Cognito kit makes it ride better. But the ride is not the reason most people buy this kit. I installed it last week and took some measurements. It gave me 1 7/8" more downward suspension travel. This means that the tire can travel down that much more before bottoming out. This is very important to the ride of the truck. The ride is better and alignments come out better too. Is it worth $480? I am not sure. This depends what you are looking for. I could not get a 6" lift because of height issues with 35" tires. I barely clear now with the cognito kit and the H2 wheels/tires. So for me, it was worth every penny.

I do agree with you on the green keys though. I installed the keys weeks before the kit and there was absolutely no ride change. it was actually worse because I cranked it up higher. The problem was that I could not get it aligned within factory specs. The cognito kit repositions the ball joint on the a-arm allowing better caster/camber.
 
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