Diesel Place banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have nearly 30K miles on my truck running Delvac 1300. I am wondering if it makes sense to switch to synthetic at this point? I have only 1200 miles on the current oil and boy does it seem black, worse than ever, not sure if I am just imagining it or what. I recently added a power box (Quad 135) and am wondering if that's a lot harder on the oil maybe?


I am planning on using Mobil Delvac One Synthetic 5W-40. The question is: Are the synthetics *really* any better than the dino's assuming both are changed at 3000-5000 miles? The Delvac 1300 I am running seems to be very good oil from what all I have read and am wondering just how much better the synthetic will be? I can buy a gal of 1300 for $6.00 and the synthetic is $24. Is it really worth the 4x price? Am I too late to change over?


Thanks,


Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,341 Posts
Tim,


With that few miles on a Diesel, it's not too late. However, if you plan on running a box and still have the "standard" oil filtration it probably won't do you much good. The oil is designed to "pick up" the soot and stuff, that's why it's black. The Syn will become black just like the 1300 Mobil in about the same amount of time. However, it won't loose it's additive package quite as quick, will flow at very low temps and withstands heat better, much better.


Get a filtration system that goes below 3 microns (2.78 is the key) and run the Delvac 1 for 10,000 miles or so.





Burner------->
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,570 Posts
I second Burner's comments ... I run the Oil Guard bypass and Delvac 1 for "planned" 10K changes. I say planned as I haven't got 10K on the truck yet and will do an analysis when I get there just to confirm 10K is soon enough.


As a note, I have about 6K miles on the Oil Guard/Delvac 1 and my oil still looks as though I poured it in yesterday ... still light brown and transparent ...also have run the Juice 90hp all along.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So assuming I don't install a bypass oil filtration system (not likely I am going to install this), then there is really no benefit to running oil that is 4x as expensive right? I change every 3K (sometimes as much as 5K if it's highway mileage only).


Should I worry about the fact that my oil seems to be blacker earlier than normal (i.e. 1200miles on new oil) or is it probably just my imagination? Could a power box somehow cause this? Just wondering...


Thanks,


Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,570 Posts
I personally would not be running Delvac 1 for 3 or 5K changes. Too expensive ... I opted for the bypass filter/Delvac 1 and extended drains just because I don't like changing oil anymore... don't have the time and would rather be doing something else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,341 Posts
Tim,


It just depends.... Look for the C4 stuff like Scheffers (Eric's post) or the Rotella stuff at Walley world and change it every 100 hours. Hours really show a true "wear" factor. If you are on the road then 100 to 150 hours is fine but "in town" driving .... don't go over 100 and your truck should last for 400 to 500+ miles before the light blue smoke starts. Yes, programs trash the oil.






Burner------->
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I hope you mean 400,000 to 500,000 miles right? :)


I have not seen anything before that leads me to believe that adding a power box/chip would hurt the engine oil. This is new news to me, but doesn't surprise me. The power boxes seem too good to be true. I am wondering if I should run a box at all now. I would rather have my truck last longer w/o the extra power rather than trash it early running a box just to get the extra power.


So 100 hours roughly equates to 3000 miles (city) which is what I normally change it at. I am wondering if I should be changing more frequently now that I have a box and the oil looks so black already? I think I will have an analysis done the next time I change it as well.


BTW, I have an early '02 with no EGR, no CAT (no extra soot generator). Is this all blow-by then, perhaps caused by the extra power from the addition of the box? Maybe it's running too hot? I don't have a gauge set, but I don't tow anything, no long grades, and I don't run above the 110 setting. I also have stock air intake and exhaust, again no CAT. Would an oil analysis show any of this? I don't have a baseline (pre-box) unfortunately to compare with.


Is the Scheffers and/or Rotella dino really any better than Mobil Delvac 1300? I have always believed Mobil was the best out there when it comes to motor oils. Anything I have read (so far) leads me to believe they are all roughly the same, they all have a CI-rating, and it's just a "my brand is better" argument from there. Am I mistaken?


Are there any comparisons (real comparisons not done by the manufacturers) to look at that prove one of these "C4" oils is better than Mobil Delvac 1300? By the way, what does C4 mean?


Thanks,
Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
From Mobil's web site:

CI-4 has been developed to establish a standard for oils that are intended for EGR equipped engines as well as satisfying the needs of engines requiring CH_4, CG-4, CF engine oils. This new CI-4 engine oil category establishes the highest level of oxidation resistance, total base number (TBN) retention and soot dispersancy ever set for an API category.

CH-4 has been developed to address engine design changes required to meet new 1998 EPA emission standards. The performance requirements include handling even higher soot loading than CG-4 rated oils and passing a series of new engine test protocols.

CG-4 was developed for oils used in 1994 and later low-emission, high-speed, four-stroke cycle diesel engines. It is also typically used for diesel engines using low sulfur diesel fuel. Newer engines that are used for on-highway or off-highway applications may call for CG-4 quality oils. One of the main advances in CG-4 verses previous quality levels is the ability of the oil to handle high levels of soot that is generated by some of these low emission engines.

CF-4 was established in 1991 to specify oil quality for severe duty, low emission, four-stroke diesel engines produced in 1991 or later. Oils meeting this category offered improved control of oil consumption and piston deposits verses previous quality levels. CF-4 has essentially replaced the CE quality rating.

CF-2 was established at the same time to specify oil quality for severe-duty, two-stroke diesel engines. CF-2 has essentially replaced CD II.

CF was established for service typical of off-road, heavy-duty diesel engines and engines operating on higher sulfur fuels. The CF quality level essentially replaced the CD level.

CE was established in 1988 to specify oils for severe duty diesel engines with turbochargers. This rating is essentially obsolete and oils meeting CF-4 are now used in applications calling for CE oils.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Ok so C4 effectively means any diesel rated motor oil. Since Mobil Delvac 1300 is rated CI-4, then can I assume it has the best C4 rating? I assumed this is the case...


Since I run a power box, should I use better oil (i.e. synthetic) or would I be wasting my money? Perhaps I should change the oil more frequently than 3000 miles? Maybe I should consider a bypass setup but it seems like that would be just more dealer warranty voiding bait...


Must be the power box is causing the oil to turn black much quicker which leads me to believe it may be shortening the life of my engine. If that's the case, I will remove it from the truck.


Does anyone else have a power box on their truck w/o bypass oil filtration? Is your oil a lot blacker than when it was stock and sooner? This concerns me...


Thanks,


Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,570 Posts
I think it is relatively normal for new oil to turn black quickly. Everytime I change oil in my wife's 02 VW TDI (using Delvac 1) the oil is black as soon as I start the car and let it idle for a few minutes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
If I read those descriptions correctly, the different C ratings are designed to address different things, so you can't say CI-4 is the only rating that matters. For example, CE was designed for one type of application and then was replaced by CF-4, which is still a current rating. CD was designed for something else and was replaced by CF, which is still a current rating. CG-4 was designed for something else and replaced by CH-4 and then that was replaced by CI-4. So there are 3 chains of progression and they're for different things.

Just looking at the descriptions, my take is that for a Duramax, ideally you'd want an oil that carries BOTH CI-4 and CF-4. CF and CF-2 don't appear to apply to us.Edited by: ZFMax
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
Assuming you're running the correct oil, which it appears you are, the short drain intervals don't seem necessary. Unless you have oil analysis reports that suggest high levels of contamination you may be wasting money right now. You certainly would not want to run such short drains on the Delvac 1. Most "rules of thumb" stem from a time before oils of the quality that are available to us new were developed. Generally speaking, the 3,000mile change interval benefits no one but the Jiffy Lubes of the world and the oil sellers. It's rarely necessary.

Back to your original question about whether it makes sense to switch to synthetic after 30k miles, it does, but only if you're going to avail yourself of the longer drain intervals possible with the synthetics. By longer, I don't necessarily mean beyond the factory recommendations, just long enought to realize some of the benefits that come with the cost of synthetic oil. From what I've been reading lately, the Schaeffer products bring most, perhaps all, of these benefits at an even lower cost. I think I'll give it a try.

TC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
I think there are a couple of other considerations when deciding if synthetic is better for your truck.


One is operating conditions. I travel throughout the Rocky Mountains and the Southwest. I start at 6000', and have some kind of a climb no matter which direction I go. It would not be unusual for me to start a day at 0 F, and finish at 70 F. In between, I would have climbed to 8000' and descended to 2000', climbed back up to 5000' and descended as low as sea level. I run a synthectic because I feel that I get better lube protection for those conditions.


Another consideration should involve the design of our engines. One reason we can run 1300+ EGT's for long periods of time is that our pistons are oil cooled. Each cylinder has an oil jet plumbed into the main oil gallery, and this jet squirts a stream of oil into an inverted "u" channel cast into the crown of the piston. It would not surprise me that the temperature of that return oil pushes the point where it begins to break down. Many of us, running stock, have much higher EGT's that we realize, so oil has a further important job in keeping the mice out of the pistons.


Finally, in my service, I sometimes have to exceed my oil change interval, and the synthectic give me a bit of extra protection.


My nickles worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Tim,


The vast majority of us running boxes/programmers are not running additional oil filtering. Any fuel added over stock will shorten the life of the oil due to soot loading IMHO. It's also reasonable to assume that if you substantually increase the HP output of an engine you will shorten it's life some what, how much I don't know. My opinion is that a well maintained Dmax will probably outlast the truck it's in even with a little extra power. But if your after the absolute longest life you can get I'd sell the box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,341 Posts
The motor was designed as a "350HP"... I think. The engine is "set" to 300 HP to keep the Allison alive for 200k or better...well, that and emmissions. You can run a 60HP box all you want, just avoid high EGT's. 60Hp is about all you can run in a "set and forget" mode. Keep the box and adjust it to a safe setting, the motor will hold.
If you are truly concerned about the longivity, get an oil flitration system. The most you'll pay for a system is 500 bucks.


---> Oil per quart = 6.00


---> Oil per change = 10 quarts { 60 bucks. }


---> 3k changes in 99k = 33 Oil changes or 1,980 bucks.


---> Filter system cost 500 bucks and will tripple that drain interval.


---> 9k changes in 99k = 10 Oil changes or 600 bucks


---> no "extra" filter and changes cost 1,980 bucks and with the filter...600 + 500 = 900 bucks spent on oil in 100K.


---> "standard oil" costs...??? 2 bucks? Oil cost per change = 20 bucks.


---> Oil cost in 99k with "the cheap stuff" = 660 bucks


---> New Duramax motor install = 14,000K


........... If you want the truck to last and don't want to worry, use "The Good Stuff" (Kenny Chesney) and buy a filter. After the first 100k you'll be saving money on Oil.


I did not include service or filter costs because they vary too much and I don't know if you it yourself.
If you have the service performed at an Oil shop your costs will be much higher using the standard oil.





....... This is just the way I see it. Just looking at it from a business point of view.
Long term savings as well as longer service life, not to mention not having to drop the plug so much.


Burner's .02 worth------>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Burner, 3K changes with synthetic?? I don't think so. Syn or dino oil such as Delvac 1300, Chevron Delo 400, or Pennzoil Long Life WILL go 10K miles with no problem in a Duramax. They cost $6 a GALLON. No doubt syn is better for the engine, it will go 10K no problem also. You can always change the filter at 5K and top off oil to keep the additive package fresh. UOA will prove my point. Or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,341 Posts
Pick,


I agree that the oil can go longer but not 10k with a box. Heck, you could run the same oil for 50k if you wanted. We both know the additives would be toast and the oils ability to pick up dirt and soot would be exasperated but the oil would not be "worn out" just useless........Luvdiesel said something about 3 to 5k oil changes with "standard" 1300 oil. I used a direct comparrison so it would be easy to follow. My "set-up' will be installed shortly and I'll run the Delvac 1 for 20k or so. Remember, oil does not break down very much. It may "dry out" or start to "thin" but the main problem is dirt and soot. The C-5 rated stuff just works better on extended drains...and heat...and cold...and evaporation...and warranty.


luvthesmellofdiesel said:
I am planning on using Mobil Delvac One Synthetic 5W-40. The question is: Are the synthetics *really* any better than the dino's assuming both are changed at 3000-5000 miles? The Delvac 1300 I am running seems to be very good oil from what all I have read and am wondering just how much better the synthetic will be? I can buy a gal of 1300 for $6.00 and the synthetic is $24. Is it really worth the 4x price? Am I too late to change over?


Thanks,


Tim




Burner------->
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Burner, OK, I see where your coming from. I did not take using a box into consideration. I think I am going to run Delvac 1300 to 10 or 15K, then switch to Delvac 1 or Amsoil, and do 10K or yearly oil changes, with 6 mo. filter swap. I only run 7-10K myself.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top