[killerbee]

1. where are the TPS, throttle position adjustments/scaling?
2. I also do not see the EGR % open values
3. Is there no Oil Pressure dependencies? I thought I had read that the truck will stop if oil pressure goes to zero.

learning curve:

 

[Idle_Chatter]

I don't have an LLY tune to look at, but on an LB7 I found oil values under: "system - warnings"

I've never heard of a low oil pressure shutoff - just pressure and level warnings.

AFAIK - we don't have electronic throttle control access or scaling - it's just a PID: GM.TP

Oh, the truck WILL STOP on low oil pressure - eventually! :lol:

 

[killerbee]

mostly, I'm stupidly confused with my way of thinking. For me everything begins with my foot. Yet I see no throttle position dependencies. What does my foot control/input?

Is there somewhere I can get an education of the "PID" concept.? I am hoping this answer question for others who are new to tuning, and breaking through conceptual barriers.

 

[Idle_Chatter]

I'm struggling with EFI, too. Your foot is involved in "throttle based injection" I think a PID, is a "parameter ID" an output or data point that influences actions or is monitored - like in the scan tool, where you assign and validate the PIDs to be monitored/recorded. Physically, there are actually FOUR rheostats in the accelerator that read a range of voltage from the pedal position. These are monitored and compared in the PCM for a number of actions and responses. I've got more "nuts & bolts" background from the service manuals, and that helps a lot in decifering what is up in EFI - now if I can only get my "man/machine" interface to EFI straightened out!

 

[cit1991]

1. where are the TPS, throttle position adjustments/scaling?
2. I also do not see the EGR % open values
3. Is there no Oil Pressure dependencies? I thought I had read that the truck will stop if oil pressure goes to zero.

learning curve:

1. For TPS, look in the fuel injection quantity folder. There's a table there "throttle based injection quantity"..or something like that. It has TPS, and RPM as axes, and the table values are main injection volume, which (mostly) sets output torque. The throttle sensitivity we feel is a result of that table.

Then most of the rest of the tables use the main injection volume as the indicator of power setting. From what I can see, TPS is only used in that one lookup...lots of other lookups use main injection (mm^3).

2. There are probably other tables not identified yet...like most of the EGR tables. My guess is: We download the whole flashram, and Ross scrounges the 1 MB of data for tables, and how they work, using experience from prior delphi ECU's or reverse-engineering the code. Then he adds access to the table and makes it look nice, with 3-d graphs etc. Not all the tables and/or flags have been identified and/or put into the program (yet). Correct me if I'm wrong, Ross.

I know we're still missing some lookups for the pilot injection volume modification, and some stuff related to idle.

I hope more tables will magically appear in the next update.

3. Probably same phenomenon. There is an oil pressure low-cutoff value in there somewhere, we just can't see it yet with the program.

 

[lakingslayer]

B0727 under the "Engine Operation"->"Fuel Injection"-> "Quantity". It's called "Throttle base injection quantity". At least I think that's what you are looking for.

 

[lakingslayer]

Damn. Beat me to it.

 

[killerbee]

Thanks guys

"...and all was right with the world again"

 

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

1. For TPS, look in the fuel injection quantity folder. There's a table there "throttle based injection quantity"..or something like that. It has TPS, and RPM as axes, and the table values are main injection volume, which (mostly) sets output torque. The throttle sensitivity we feel is a result of that table.

Then most of the rest of the tables use the main injection volume as the indicator of power setting. From what I can see, TPS is only used in that one lookup...lots of other lookups use main injection (mm^3).

2. There are probably other tables not identified yet...like most of the EGR tables. My guess is: We download the whole flashram, and Ross scrounges the 1 MB of data for tables, and how they work, using experience from prior delphi ECU's or reverse-engineering the code. Then he adds access to the table and makes it look nice, with 3-d graphs etc. Not all the tables and/or flags have been identified and/or put into the program (yet). Correct me if I'm wrong, Ross.

I know we're still missing some lookups for the pilot injection volume modification, and some stuff related to idle.

I hope more tables will magically appear in the next update.

3. Probably same phenomenon. There is an oil pressure low-cutoff value in there somewhere, we just can't see it yet with the program.

LLY and LB7 tables are almost identicle except for the Turbo Vein Tables and a few extra EGR tables.......

Pilot injection Quantity can be modified....... , not sure if it has much of an effect just yet, I know it can make the engine louder......

Throttle based injection Quantity does not change the TPS scale..... it is a simple reference table.

Start by understanding how Fuel Pressure Base and Throttle based Injection Quantity relate to each other.

The easiest way is to make some log files and replay them.

It will take some getting used to, but once you figure it out it is not a difficult thing to do..........

Good Luck,

T NY

 

[lakingslayer]

LLY and LB7 tables are almost identicle except for the Turbo Vein Tables and a few extra EGR tables.......

Pilot injection Quantity can be modified....... , not sure if it has much of an effect just yet, I know it can make the engine louder......

Throttle based injection Quantity does not change the TPS scale..... it is a simple reference table.

Start by understanding how Fuel Pressure Base and Throttle based Injection Quantity relate to each other.

The easiest way is to make some log files and replay them.

It will take some getting used to, but once you figure it out it is not a difficult thing to do..........

Good Luck,

T NY

You can make quite a jerky ride by messing with this table the wrong way also.

 

[Flashscan]

Sorry guys, been a little busy!

There is no TPS scaler as such, really there is almost no point as everything is based on the amount of fuel to deliver. So, that then point to your TPS Fuel Quantity table {B0727}. If you want touchy throttle response alter the values in there.

We don't of course have everything out of the 1Mb mapped, there was mention of the EGR table, the reason we don't include things like that is 'most' users turn it off anyway!. There are others along the same lines.......do you want to alter the table or just eliminate the table entirely.

Oil Pressure shut down, do you ever want to alter that?.

Cheers,
Ross

 

[killerbee]

Ross, for me EGR is not an important table to have. You are correct, most, like me, are just interested in being able to defeat it. But to see it, would give me grasp of what the engineers were thinking.

Same with Oil pressure shut down: and other parameters: I may not change them, but it would be nice to see what the PCM is doing/thinking.

My main difficulty in internalizing this process, is that I became aware that it is less than "intuitive" to learn. A real cobweb of dependents. Not a critisism of the program, mainly just realizing that I am learning a new language. I feel like Neo trying to read a construct. My whole learning process usually has structure, a manual or such. Not having one is just slowing me down. But I love what I have learned so far. I hope to be able to speak the language soon.

Perhaps, some type of illustrative "tree" that pictorially illustrates the dependencies would make my visual oriented learning process a little easier.

Excel has a feature that helps me troubleshoot complex spreadsheet errors. It is called "trace dependents" and "trace precedents". It quickly locates all the locations that depend on a value or variable. Maybe something like that would be useful here.

LOL, isn't there always someone that's not quite happy?

 

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I think I know the problem,

Engineers are very regimented people, they have to have the details and understand them before they will delve into something.

I have known and worked with many engineers, they give me a scaled print for tile installation down to +/- .25"......

You really need to learn by doing, what I mean is make a small change, drive the truck, see what it does.

I tune by what it feels like and how my gauges respond to the pedal input from the driver, I then look at the logs and attempt to understand why or why not the truck is doing what I want it to do.

After you get a better grasp on the tables you will get a better understanding of why things do what they do.

It is more trial and error at first than anything, kind of like learning to walk, you need to fall down and hold onto things at first, once you get your balance you will walk, jog and learn to run......
.
.

 

[killerbee]

My parents said I skipped walking.

But you are right about engineer types. Disect to death

 

[killerbee]

Thought I should add:

Engineers aren't the only class that is skiddish about lawn dart trial and error. There is something to be said for reading the directions carefully on the back of the dynamite box. Just ask roadrunner. (Though somehow Wyle E. manages to avoid selective reduction nonetheless.)

No critisism intended. I am not trying to short the pioneers. Quite the opposite. We are just a bit apprehensive about blowing something up. A good trait to have if becoming older is a goal.

 

[killerbee]

Is there a way to "compare" 2 tunes, with 2 different OS's?

Essentially identical trucks.

 

[killerbee]

We don't of course have everything out of the 1Mb mapped, there was mention of the EGR table, the reason we don't include things like that is 'most' users turn it off anyway!.

Come to think of it, how do I do that? I see I can disable "diagnostics" but not egr function. Liability?

 

[cit1991]

Move the EGR operating range to something high, like 4000-4100 RPM.

There is probably no disable bit.

 

[killerbee]

again, thanks

 

[Flashscan]

Killerbee, I understand you points entirely.
We as a company are in a difficult position in that we are really a software company, we are not a bunch of Diesel tuners who write software, we are software developers who write software for Diesel / Gas tuners.
On a similar level when you purchase Visual Basic or C++ for programming, they don't teach you how to write your first killer application!, it gives you the ability to do so 'if' you have the knowledge. That's where the comparison ends because you can get onto Amazon and purchase one of thousands of books on the subject, not so with EFILive.
I think with the product in it's infancy things can certainly appear daunting to all as there is no reference to head toward as a starter, that is starting to change though as guys like yourself just tinker away until they start getting a real handle on it.

The company EFI-101 is one of the only companies I know of that actually runs training course on tuning EFI motors (gas), who knows, maybe down the track they might offer a Diesel course if the demand is high enough?.

Just remember, we all started off knowing nothing about tuning, I first delved into tuning when I got so fed up with aftermarket 'experts' sending me crap tunes for my 1983 TransAm, figured I'd do it myself.......10 years on here I am writing software to allow others to do the same thing.

Cheers,
Ross