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RPM for the LBZ

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7.2K views 47 replies 13 participants last post by  MarkBroviak  
#1 ·
Well, I guess I'll post this up for everyone's benefit (if it really is a benefit). I was contemplating the problem of not being able to rev the LBZ past the 3500ish area under load. I came up with a somewhat unorthodox way of getting some more RPMs out of these motors. I can't say how well it pulls in the higher RPMs or how it shifts. I have never actually tested these theories on my truck. It isn't because I am afraid to; it is due to the fact that I am a loooooong way away from my truck right now. Okay, now on to my method.

The first thing I did was went into table B1102 and raise the torque based fuel numbers from 3400 and 221 Ft-Lbs and higher to 120. I did the same thing with 4800 RPM except I started at 74 Ft-Lbs. I thought this alone would cure the defuel problem, but there is another table somewhere that drops commanded fuel independantly of this table.

In order to work around the unseen table I went first to table B0720. What I did there was modify it so that my max fuel in the 180 and 190 MPa columns extended all the way down to 30 mm3. I then went to table B1001. What I did there was make the any block in the 3600+ RPM range and 35+ mm3 range be 190 MPa. This would ensure that above 3600 RPM I would have 180 MPa of rail pressure and should keep my injector duration at my highest desired level all the way down to a commanded 35 mm3 of fuel. I also dropped anything at 3400 RPM or less and 95 mm3 or less to 170 MPa. This should push the duration to the 170 MPa column and allow the truck to defuel if it is at 3300 RPMs or less so the transmission should be able to shift. Like I said, I've never been able to try this out so I can't say for sure if it works or not.

The next things I addressed were boost and timing. Since the truck thought it was getting less fuel it was dropping boost and timing. To fix this I just went into the timing tables and extended my max timing at 3400 RPM and 4800 RPM all the way down to 35 mm3. To fix the boost I did the same thing I did to the timing.

You will also need to go into table B1118 and B1119 and make the corresponding block for whatever you want to be your max RPM, and anything higher than that, "0".

Just as a final disclaimer, I have personally never tried this and cannot vouch for how well it pulls, shifts, smokes, revs or anything. The only thing I have is a log that shows it going 70 mph in 3rd gear at 4300 RPM.

If you try any of these mods and get a satisfactory result I would love to see a log of it. I would also be interested to hear if you try this during a sled pull to see if it allows you to get some good RPMs while you are under a heavy load since that was my main motivation for trying to get more RPMs in the first place.

Attached are some screen shots of the tables I modded. Good luck.









 
#2 ·
I like the idea, but what may work best is to log a normal tune, see what area it falls off into and adjust from there.

I did a simular adjustment the other week, no real gain after 3500 rpms, thats when I decided that logging first and then adjusting will probably work better. I didnt have time to log anything then and havnt played with it since then, but might this weekend.
 
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#3 ·
Too bad your log wont show durration or some other nice to know values :( ;) Gota get on Ross and Paul about that as someones OS sucks the big one :D

While not a fix I dont think......the above does make a 100% improvment over the BS it does if you dont do this. Only issue is if your trans dosnt complete the shift when its supposed to it shifts like poo. If it does it when its supposed to its not bad though :D

And a slight warning......if your going at a high rate of rpm its like a switch and it goes to WOT. Means you wont be able to pedal it much if your spinning the crap outa her.....close to off or on. And be carefull that you dont extend the fuling all the way up in the upper R's

Great idea though and thankyou for sharing Josh. :)
 
#7 ·
I haven't personally tried it yet, but I know of a few trucks that have. I wish I could try it so I could fine tune it a little more, but like Steve said I'm on the other side of the planet.
 
#9 ·
redws6rocket;1999944; said:
do i need to make transmission adjustments as well or will that let it rev up!
From what I have seen this works best for pulling. Because you let get in to a gear and than rev it out. For drag racing I not sure how it would work. When i tried to get it to shift above 3200rpm it did weird stuff. I got all worried because I thought I hurt my converter. But I think now that is a TCM defuel.

Anybody else?
 
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#11 ·
JOHNBOY;1999964; said:
From what I have seen this works best for pulling. Because you let get in to a gear and than rev it out. For drag racing I not sure how it would work. When i tried to get it to shift above 3200rpm it did weird stuff. I got all worried because I thought I hurt my converter. But I think now that is a TCM defuel.

Anybody else?
You're exactly right JOHNBOY. I only intended this to be used for pulling. The shifting would still need to be done at the normal time, but it will allow you to wind out 3rd gear instead of sitting on the 3500 RPM limit.
 
#12 ·
That it does very well!;)
 
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#13 ·
Do you have to let it get into 3rd before going into WOT or will it shift fine through first and second while pulling if you nail it from the start?
 
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#14 ·
JoshH;1999988; said:
You're exactly right JOHNBOY. I only intended this to be used for pulling. The shifting would still need to be done at the normal time, but it will allow you to wind out 3rd gear instead of sitting on the 3500 RPM limit.
Right now the tune I have in my lbz allows the engine to rev to 4400 rpm under load pulling a sled in 3rd gear. At schieds I ran 3rd gear 43?? rpm. Mine does not stop at 3500rpm and pulls hard past it. By no means am I bragging, just trying to figure out what this whole rpm limit thing is about. Are you guys reving past 3500rpm and it's cutting back fuel hard or can you just not rev past 3500 rpm under a load. I'm just trying to figure out if somehow the tune gets around this rpm limit or if I still have the same problem as everyone else. And no I did not write the tune.
 
#15 ·
jneal,

my lbz pulls fuel out when the rpms approach 3500rpm. i would love to see the 4000 rpm level. it will rev to 4000+ but it is pulling fuel all the time.

i have tried JoshH's set up and it helps but did not fix the problem for me. perhaps i have missed something, i will have to double check.
 
#17 ·
jneal;2010804; said:
Right now the tune I have in my lbz allows the engine to rev to 4400 rpm under load pulling a sled in 3rd gear. At schieds I ran 3rd gear 43?? rpm. Mine does not stop at 3500rpm and pulls hard past it. By no means am I bragging, just trying to figure out what this whole rpm limit thing is about. Are you guys reving past 3500rpm and it's cutting back fuel hard or can you just not rev past 3500 rpm under a load. I'm just trying to figure out if somehow the tune gets around this rpm limit or if I still have the same problem as everyone else. And no I did not write the tune.
You must have some special ECM then because you're the first person I've heard of that can rev that high and still make power with an LBZ.
05Smoker;2010541; said:
Do you have to let it get into 3rd before going into WOT or will it shift fine through first and second while pulling if you nail it from the start?
If it shifts before 3400 RPM you'll be fine. If it tries to shift above that you'll have problems.
 
#18 ·
JoshH, I'm not saying I have anything special at all. I just stated what my truck does during a pull with the current tune. I was just wondering what the whole defuel thing was, because it seems that I do not have this problem and was just wondering. My truck does pull hard the entire time, if it was pulling fuel over 3500rpm wouldn't it stop smoking and stop building power. My truck does neither. Like I said I am in no way bragging, I didn't write the tune so I have nothing to brag about.
 
#19 ·
05Smoker;2010541; said:
Do you have to let it get into 3rd before going into WOT or will it shift fine through first and second while pulling if you nail it from the start?
Get right after it off the line or roll it out. Just let it shift on its own like Josh H says. I tried running it up in 2nd then shifting but it was not good. Nasty defuel. Was not sure what it was. Almost called MikeL. Thought I might have whipped out the converter. But I tried it again letting it shift normal and it works fine.

jneal;2010804; said:
Right now the tune I have in my lbz allows the engine to rev to 4400 rpm under load pulling a sled in 3rd gear. At schieds I ran 3rd gear 43?? rpm. Mine does not stop at 3500rpm and pulls hard past it. By no means am I bragging, just trying to figure out what this whole rpm limit thing is about. Are you guys reving past 3500rpm and it's cutting back fuel hard or can you just not rev past 3500 rpm under a load. I'm just trying to figure out if somehow the tune gets around this rpm limit or if I still have the same problem as everyone else. And no I did not write the tune.
I can get over 4000RPM also. The 3500 limit is with stock tuning not mine.;)

isudiesel;2010837; said:
jneal,

my lbz pulls fuel out when the rpms approach 3500rpm. i would love to see the 4000 rpm level. it will rev to 4000+ but it is pulling fuel all the time.

i have tried JoshH's set up and it helps but did not fix the problem for me. perhaps i have missed something, i will have to double check.
If you want send me your tune and I can take a look. Do you have a lift pump?

Cobra#3747;2010845; said:
The way I test, put the truck in 2nd or 3rd gear depending on how fast the road you are on is, and hit it, my tuck will go past 3500, but it really makes no power at all doing it.
Your not going to make a lot of power but you will gain ground speed you would not with the stock style defuel.
 
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#20 ·
jneal;2010906; said:
JoshH, I'm not saying I have anything special at all. I just stated what my truck does during a pull with the current tune. I was just wondering what the whole defuel thing was, because it seems that I do not have this problem and was just wondering. My truck does pull hard the entire time, if it was pulling fuel over 3500rpm wouldn't it stop smoking and stop building power. My truck does neither. Like I said I am in no way bragging, I didn't write the tune so I have nothing to brag about.
I didn't take it as bragging at all. I didn't mean to come across like that at all. I was just saying that if whoever did your tuning didn't do some trick stuff like I posted about then you do have something special because I haven't heard of anyone being able to get these to rev by just using the tables as they were meant to be used. I think there's a table hiding somewhere that EFI has yet to find. Once they get done with all the pesky gasser stuff I'm sure it won't take them too long to get it figured out.
 
#21 ·
JoshH;2010973; said:
I didn't take it as bragging at all. I didn't mean to come across like that at all. I was just saying that if whoever did your tuning didn't do some trick stuff like I posted about then you do have something special because I haven't heard of anyone being able to get these to rev by just using the tables as they were meant to be used. I think there's a table hiding somewhere that EFI has yet to find. Once they get done with all the pesky gasser stuff I'm sure it won't take them too long to get it figured out.
No offense taken. Had a data log done and without a load just driving it does not start to defuel until 42??. No thats without a load just driving. With a load it will defuel at a higher rpm.
 
#22 ·
jneal;2011181; said:
No offense taken. Had a data log done and without a load just driving it does not start to defuel until 42??. No thats without a load just driving. With a load it will defuel at a higher rpm.
Who tuned your truck? When you say it isn't defueling, what are you watching to see when it is or isn't defueling? That's pretty good to be able to fuel hard at those RPMs.
 
#24 ·
4239 Rpms

Here is the log. I'm watching ENGTRQREF_DMA in NM which shows net engine torque. You can look at the log and watch the torque drop between shifts etc, and the load also helps to show you that the data is accurate. If you look at the vertical line it shows 4239 rpms. This is just running 3rd gear out on the road in 4lo.

Notice that just after that rpm the load and torque sharply drop off.
 

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#25 ·
Brayden, did you ever log the fuel the truck is getting? As you can see from this log the torque reference stays about the same as your log, but the commanded fuel still drops despite what the program says. I'm just curious about how well the truck actually fuels above 3500, and what was done to get it to do it.
 

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#26 ·
Well it's hard to say how well it fuels, you would just have to see it pull. It will usually put a foot or two on well tuned LLY's that should be right around 500rwhp.


Speaking of that.. Hey Ed... Post Jared's pull at Scheids on Youtube for us!
 
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