KGs6.2K5;1569539; said:well its time to get a new starter for my 6.2. what do you guys recommend? just a stock replacement? i have heard about a bosch gear reduction starter but i cant kind much info on it. what do you guys run?
Wire sizes and resultant voltage drops are the same now in 2007 Chevys as it was in the 80s with 6.2 diesels. Depending on the cable lengths, #2 or #4 cable is installed OEM. In regard to your claim of the "geared starter draws less current" - that is not true at all. The older direct-drive Delco 27MT has a maximum power output of 3.6 KWs. The newer Delco 28MT gear-reduction starter makes more power and draws more amps and is rated at 3.7 KWs. The big difference is - it draws steady amps - the later GR starter does not develop a huge surge of startup current when first trying to turn - and this is what makes more durable. And in regard to the new GR starters being slower?? In a 6.2 or 6.5 diesel, the direct-drive starter at 10 VDC spins the motor at approx. 110 RPM, and the GR starter at 10 VDC spins it at 130 RPM.High Sierra 2500;1573842; said:I do know why GM went to a geared starter on the later trucks (and it wasn't because they are better starters). It was a cost-cutting measure. The geared starter draws less current and therefore can use smaller wiring which is much less expensive. In addition, it is cheaper to use the small motor the geared starter uses.
I guess I'm not sure what we're "agreeing to disgree" with? I've seen a few people post here - including you - saying they don't like GR starters - but I haven't seen a single person state, specifically what starter they are dissappointed with. There are many variations on the market.High Sierra 2500;1574080; said:JD, we have discussed this before. I agree to disagree on this topic.
No, not all the weaks points from the DD starter exist in the GR starter. DD starters can suffer meltdown from overcranking and subsequently commutator meltdown, field wire meltdown, etc. Also, the high shock load of initial cranking tends to hammer out the starter-drive stop on the end of the armature. The GR reduction starter is more resistant to those problems. I was working as a HD diesel mechanic when companies e.g. Deere, Case, IH, etc. began to change over to GR starters to improve reliablitiy. That was not cost-cutting - the GR starters made by Nippo Denso cost more than the DD Delcos - not less. And, they held up to abuse much better. With the chronologly of diesel starting systems - I saw it go from gas pony motors - to 24 volt fine-wire DD starters, to 12 volt DD starters - and eventually to 12 V GR starters in many applications. And, reliability got better every step of the way.High Sierra 2500;1574920; said:In my opinion, the direct drive starter is more durable than the later geared starters. The direct drive starter is built to be extremely tough and it is very durable. The main weak points in the design are the mounting points, the brushes, and the solenoid. All of those weak points are incorporated into the geared starter (all of them, not just certain brands) and the brushes are usually smaller on the geared starters.
You and others with bad GR starter experiences have not yet specificed exacty what make and model starter you find to be inferior.High Sierra 2500;1574920; said:I don't think the geared starter actually functions as well as the direct drive unit. I do understand, however, that some people do have better luck with them, so that may simply be due to my own personal experience. Personally, I have never liked them.
I've had some bad experiences with cheap Chinese and Indian made parts. Also had some very good sucess - like anything else - you have to pick and choose. Take a brake master cyliner - for example. Rebuilts are a waste of money. Go to buy new - even from the major U.S. companies - most now will be from China and are excellent quality. If you do find a new one made in the U.S. it will be close to $100 instead of $50.High Sierra 2500;1574920; said:On the subject of imported parts, I haven't had good luck with them and I do buy USA made parts for my truck. I have, on occasion, bought foreign parts for it, usually because I could not afford the USA made parts, but I can't remember one occasion when I wasn't impressed by the poor quality of the imported parts.
The battery cables don't run anything once the engine is running.High Sierra 2500;1574920; said:GM did go with geared starters for cost reasons. With more and more electrical equipment on vehicles there are greater and greater electrical requirements and using a gear reduction starter is just one more way of getting by with the same cable (which was a little too small to begin with in many cases) or a smaller one to run more and more stuff. The '07 Chevy may use the same cable as an '80s Chevy with a 6.2, but the '07 has to run a whole lot more stuff in addition to the starter.
Hey, I'm just attempting to separate fact from fiction. Too many people read something on the Internet that sounds good, believe it and spread the mis-facts. With starters on diesels - they often get abused - that is expected. Diesels start harder than gas engines. I've never made any general or blanket statement about any of the starters being all bad. The direct-drives though - as far as I know - are no longer being made new - whereas the GR starters are. There have been several comments on this forum stating that the GR starters are all inferior - which is simply rediculous. Now, maybe someone HAS had a bad experience with a certain make or model - but I've yet to see a single poster provide that information.farmer0_1;1575717; said:ease up on the coffee you two! i have ddrive starters on the farm yet in all the 6.2s here. weather stays 10 or above so not to hard to start. i allways address starting issues and do not overheat the starters just cranking them. as far as rebuilds i do them my self and always try and get the best parts i can. my brother has a gear reduction starter and he lives in cold country and his 6.5 crate motor always starts and is never plugged in.
You have to watch for deals and buy carefully. Most of the new gear-reduction starters for sale - all over the place including Ebay - are referred to as "high torque model 6468."BKinzey;1579598; said:Jdemaris.
Could you give us more info on the 28MT starters to look for? There are many sellers on eBay and I'd like to avoid the low quality ones.
I've mentioned it many times in many posts -going back 10 years. But . . . many people reply with general statements saying the GR starters are "slow and no good" which is rediculous. Not a single person yet - who complains about them - has responded with any specific facts about what actual starter they've had bad experience with.dieselgrinder;1579658; said:I wish this would have been discussed earlier . .