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I am very aware how you people drive since for some strange reason some of you feel the need to come out here and show us. Some days I am in city traffic and have to pull on/off the interstate multiple times sometimes in bumper to bumper traffic. I easily get up to speed limit without impeding traffic. I have talked to people who live in urban areas with basically the same van as you and they have no problems with how the transmission shifts. So either you have a problem with your transmission or you need to adjust your driving style.

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I've driven in Montana. Any city there the traffic is no comparison to someplace like Chicago or New York City. It is a different world. When I was out West, or anywhere away from a city, I have a different driving style. I have zero issues with either of the Allisons in my pickups. It is a 6l problem, and one that the transmission guy at the dealer acknowledges. There is no programming update from the factory so I've had to live with it. Dealership has driven it, knows there is a problem, and has no authorized fix for it. That is why I've been looking for someone that can tune the 6l aftermarket in a diesel
 

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Discussion Starter #43
I know your a legend in your own mind but here's a few stats for you Montana 4th largest st in the country with pop of a little over 1 million
My st ate #27 in size with over 20m conn ,mass ,nj etc go down from therein state size 33 ,44, with next nearest state pop is 4m 7m 9 m and on and on
so you have no idea what traffic is. I don't care how many people move out there
 

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I've driven in Montana. Any city there the traffic is no comparison to someplace like Chicago or New York City. It is a different world. When I was out West, or anywhere away from a city, I have a different driving style. I have zero issues with either of the Allisons in my pickups. It is a 6l problem, and one that the transmission guy at the dealer acknowledges. There is no programming update from the factory so I've had to live with it. Dealership has driven it, knows there is a problem, and has no authorized fix for it. That is why I've been looking for someone that can tune the 6l aftermarket in a diesel
You do own EFI Live correct ? If so then tune it yourself and show GM what they did wrong.
 

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I know your a legend in your own mind but here's a few stats for you Montana 4th largest st in the country with pop of a little over 1 million
My st ate #27 in size with over 20m conn ,mass ,nj etc go down from therein state size 33 ,44, with next nearest state pop is 4m 7m 9 m and on and on
so you have no idea what traffic is. I don't care how many people move out there
Stats are for losers. You want to do stats ok fine here is one. Bozeman is one of the fasting growing areas in the country. The current roads cannot support the large influx of people so they get the same type of traffic you do. Here is another one, when the Bakken was booming we had a huge number of people come in that all those little 2 lane roads and even the interstate could not handle. It does not matter where you are at on this planet if you have to many people on roads that cannot support it than we all can share in a similar driving experience. We both will have people frustrated and get in a hurry and some that will clog up traffic by driving under the speed limit. During those times I refuse to drive like an idiot just because everyone else is.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
You say stats are for losers and then you want to give me stats?
Well my point is we have much smaller States with 3 to 20million more people on the same size roads not just a few congested spotstjeres times around here you can drive from maine to penn and are lucky to get up to 55 the trip and if you try your hyper coasting ,cruising,slowing down 5 miles out of town drivers here would be running you off the road just the way it is.
50 million people crammed into an area roughly size of your state there just isn't many times you can use your driving style here which even out thete I'm glad I'm not driving behind you
And my van doesn't have an allison it has the 6l and with the diesel there are all the afore mentioned problems and sorry I'm not a computer whiz that I can tune my own stuff when a billion $ company couldn't or didn't want to spend more time and$ on it and thought good enough for a small section of sales, but there is room for improvement thats what im on here to see . Also your 4l isn't a 6l and neither are Allison's and all are tuned different and the vans are different than the pickups and my van is 4x4 on top of it so I have also have a different set of problems on top of a 2 wheel drive diesel van
 

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You say stats are for losers and then you want to give me stats?
Well my point is we have much smaller States with 3 to 20million more people on the same size roads not just a few congested spotstjeres times around here you can drive from maine to penn and are lucky to get up to 55 the trip and if you try your hyper coasting ,cruising,slowing down 5 miles out of town drivers here would be running you off the road just the way it is.
50 million people crammed into an area roughly size of your state there just isn't many times you can use your driving style here which even out thete I'm glad I'm not driving behind you
And my van doesn't have an allison it has the 6l and with the diesel there are all the afore mentioned problems and sorry I'm not a computer whiz that I can tune my own stuff when a billion $ company couldn't or didn't want to spend more time and$ on it and thought good enough for a small section of sales, but there is room for improvement thats what im on here to see . Also your 4l isn't a 6l and neither are Allison's and all are tuned different and the vans are different than the pickups and my van is 4x4 on top of it so I have also have a different set of problems on top of a 2 wheel drive diesel van
"Stats are for losers" is a funny quote that coach Choate uses all the time when people bring up pointless info. I find it funny when you people like to get all excited about traffic and feel the need to go to great depths to explain it. When in heavy traffic I do not do the extreme hyper whatever stuff but I also do not stomp on the pedals like an idiot.

The 6l90 and 6.6 Duramax was available in the van from 2010-16. You 2 are the first I am hearing from that feel there is a problem. There are way more that are happy and say there is no issue with the transmission. If the programming was so bad you would think these people would be complaining also. Maybe you 2 have a hard part problem that is causing problems that needs to be addressed ? Maybe it is just your personal taste that would like it to be better ? When I hear heavy whining about a mfg I question if there is really a problem.

13 years ago I knew nothing about tuning either. I spent many hours learning and asking a lot of stupid questions. Eventually I learned enough to accomplish some small things. I am by no means a tuner but I can learn enough to take care of my own vehicles.

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You do own EFI Live correct ? If so then tune it yourself and show GM what they did wrong.



You must not have ever tried to tune a never vehicle. ECM is locked. No read possible. That is why we use guys that can build a program based on experience that worked for the older generations. The van with the 6l and duramax is rare enough that no tuner has worked on the trans program. If GM got them perfect there would be no need to tune the Allison either. Market shows there is a need.



If you are so sure that GM makes no mistakes in their programming I have proof for you. I have an 06 6.0 4l gasser. Trans was always weird in it. It would slip on takeoff, not every time, but would free rev quite often, like the tires were sitting on ice. Same deal as on my 6l now, dealer tech felt it do it and had no explanation or fix. I had Blackbear tune the engine and trans. It was better after that but not fixed. He was able to see it on the logs but didn't know why it was doing it. I had a shift kit and line pressure kit put in the trans. Transmission guy felt it and couldn't figure it out. He checked for programming updates and found none. 6 years later transmission is gone. He rebuilds trans, and when I went to pick it up I had him check for programming updates. Wouldn't you know GM released one for that exact issue. It took GM 7 years to admit there was a problem and to fix it. Their own update said it didn't affect all of the 6.0 4l combos. Just a select few.



There are 2 other guys local to me that have the 6.6 and 6l combo in vans. Both of them have the same issue. You can blame it on our "driving" if you want to. It is an issue with something in the trans. Whether or not it is a bad hard part or in the programming I can't say. But programming is a good place to start.


I have talked to the programmers making the 6l live in high horsepower gas engine applications. They start talking about shifting and cutting spark. Then I remind them I have a diesel. Silence. Then they all say they aren't sure how to tune it then.



You may have got a very good trans in yours from the factory. They are not all created equal. At one point in my life I was the manager of a delivery service running 50 or so vans anywhere from 1000 miles to 3000 miles per week. I tried Ford, Dodge, and Chevy vans. Fords and Dodges were done around 200,000. My Chevy vans were mostly going 600-700 thousand and being sold after that still running. All the vans were treated the same, oil change every 5-6 thousand and trans service 25-30 thousand. All of those vans had the original engines, and a couple made it on the original trans. Most had one or two rebuilds on the trans. I had a few that the trans went about every hundred thousand miles. Didn't matter what we did to them they went. Change the driver in the van to one that was getting a ton of miles on a trans and same thing. 100,000 or so and putting another trans in it. It isn't the driver. There are good ones and bad ones right off the assembly line. It's luck of the draw.



If I have a bad hard part then several others do too. I bought this with 5 miles on it so it was brand new. Again, dealer admitted there is a problem. They just don't know how to fix it. That is the reason this van is deleted. 4 dealerships around here couldn't fix the emissions system and told me to get rid of it. The diesel van is just the odd bird out and there isn't much corporate support for it.
 

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The ECM for LML/LGH is not locked from the factory. The tuner locks it so people do not share his tunes. The L5P is locked but it is a whole different animal. Also here a few years back EFILive remove the capability for us end users to have the capability to do any emissions related tuning.

For the transmission you would tune the TCM not the ECM.

ECM/TCM tuning is a drop in the bucket to all the millions of vehicles racking up millions of miles completely stock. There is money to be made and hype to be built up on many products just like this. If you look at the high end smart people in this business across the country they do less rather than more like the flashy companies trying to sell you $$$ in parts.

The LGH is just a detuned LML nothing special or oddball about it except being put in the van. Still uses the same parts and ECM. Those 4 dealers that could not fix the emissions issues could be for a variety of reasons. I have been in shops all my life and have seen spectacular work and flat out horrible work. To be blunt and totally honest the #1 problem I see today is dumb/lazy. Nobody wants to take the time to learn and diagnose any problems. Nobody wants to think just slap a part on go without taking a couple of minutes to figure out how something works. It is easier to just stomp your feet, cry/whine that the big evil mfg are bad. We are all created equal and we all have the capability to learn if we want to.

6l80-90 has been out since 2005 so find a reputable transmission shop that does nothing but transmissions and have them look at it. To help them and you make sure to be totally honest with the mods and how you drive it and towing # and etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
One foot on the brake ,one one the gas! Thanks Sammy h. Amen to that, you comments are right on the money , all the same stuff I'm going through, and where guys who do this for a living and gm can't figure it out , this guy wants me to grab my laptop and solve it myself? Lol that's why I'm on here ,guys have waayyy more experience at this than me and I was hoping to talk to one of them not someone out in the countryside calling himself a specialist and didn't know yoy had to pull the trans to install the transgo kit then telling me i dont know how to drive.
when he doesnt even have the same vehicle with the same problems we're talking about, I'm like you looking for a cure not criticism that has nothing to do with problem. I have a 2011 chevy cutaway box van 6.6 6l and that has the same problems but since it's pretty heavy 13k plus all the time I don't drive it fast enough to worry about the squirrelly behavior most of the Time but out on the highway at speed takes a little planning if your going to get on it or need to pass
 

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One foot on the brake ,one one the gas! Thanks Sammy h. Amen to that, you comments are right on the money , all the same stuff I'm going through, and where guys who do this for a living and gm can't figure it out , this guy wants me to grab my laptop and solve it myself? Lol that's why I'm on here ,guys have waayyy more experience at this than me and I was hoping to talk to one of them not someone out in the countryside calling himself a specialist and didn't know yoy had to pull the trans to install the transgo kit then telling me i dont know how to drive.
when he doesnt even have the same vehicle with the same problems we're talking about, I'm like you looking for a cure not criticism that has nothing to do with problems
Let's not derail this thread. Keep the personal jabs out and stay on topic.


..:back:
 

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One foot on the brake ,one one the gas! Thanks Sammy h. Amen to that, you comments are right on the money , all the same stuff I'm going through, and where guys who do this for a living and gm can't figure it out , this guy wants me to grab my laptop and solve it myself? Lol that's why I'm on here ,guys have waayyy more experience at this than me and I was hoping to talk to one of them not someone out in the countryside calling himself a specialist and didn't know yoy had to pull the trans to install the transgo kit then telling me i dont know how to drive.
when he doesnt even have the same vehicle with the same problems we're talking about, I'm like you looking for a cure not criticism that has nothing to do with problem. I have a 2011 chevy cutaway box van 6.6 6l and that has the same problems but since it's pretty heavy 13k plus all the time I don't drive it fast enough to worry about the squirrelly behavior most of the Time but out on the highway at speed takes a little planning if your going to get on it or need to pass
I was wrong about the Transgo at first and came back to make sure you had the correct info which you did not know anything at all. If you know everything and GM and all shops know nothing then lead by example and fix it yourself. This is a perfect example of what can go wrong with these forums. People come on here demanding we give the fix to any and all problems ASAP. Then argue and complain when they are given advice that it is all wrong. They go on to explain how they know so much and we know nothing, GM cannot fix anything, all the shops cannot fix anything, etc.

This transmission has been out for 15 years so the aftermarket and independent shops know them very well. If there is a known common issues that GM will not address then the aftermarket would be more than happy to find a fix and take your money.

If you just want to cry/whine and complain that we, GM, independent shops are stupid and know nothing then take that garbage elsewhere. There are several people in this van section that put in countless hours of personal time to help people for no $$$. We are here to help if you are willing to learn.
 

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I have talked to the programmers making the 6l live in high horsepower gas engine applications. They start talking about shifting and cutting spark. Then I remind them I have a diesel. Silence. Then they all say they aren't sure how to tune it then.
GM uses torque management during shifts to help the transmissions live. This should be a signal to everyone that the transmission actually can not handle full engine torque through a shift, unlike the older 3 and 4 speeds with Simpson gearsets.
Not a knock on the transmissions... That's just the way they are. That's how they have to be to squeeze that many gears into a small enough case to use the transmission in normal size vehicles. Ridden in a bus with an Allison recently? It shifts VERY hard, but the shift is cushioned by the weight of the vehicle. That's what it takes to help a transmission live in a heavy vehicle with a lot of torque... have to minimize slip and keep the temperature under control.
 

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For the record I'm not insinuating that my transmission is broken. It just has larger tires than it did at stock and the tuning I got for the engine didn't address the trans as far as I know. So, its just a little off but nothing really bad. I just know it could better. When I run it in tow/haul it shifts great. Just looking for a point in the right direction of a trans tuner for this somewhat unique combination of Duramax plus 6l90...as of yet I've not found anyone.
 

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For the record I'm not insinuating that my transmission is broken. It just has larger tires than it did at stock and the tuning I got for the engine didn't address the trans as far as I know. So, its just a little off but nothing really bad. I just know it could better. When I run it in tow/haul it shifts great. Just looking for a point in the right direction of a trans tuner for this somewhat unique combination of Duramax plus 6l90...as of yet I've not found anyone.
Find a shop who tunes the caddy cts-v or zl1 as they use the 6l80-6l90 trans.
You could also use 6l90etuning.com
 

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My ECM is the same part number as an LML ECM. That is one of the few things they share in common. The programming is completely different. That is why Edge only gets a few PIDs from the my ECM. The ECM is locked so it can't be flashed, but it is locked so nothing can be read from it. In order to tune trans the torque management needs to be written in ECM and TCM, at least according to the guys that I have talked to that tune these for gassers. That makes tuning out of my reach. Without the torque management this trans would have a very very short lifespan. Not saying torque management is a problem, it's just what needed to happen to have the trans hold up. I know they made these to shift nice and smooth and gave up wear on the clutches to do so. Personally I'd rather have a much harder shift and longer life. I have a 5 ton military truck with the Allison in it. Empty it will about give you whiplash. Get a load on it and it is about perfect. I think we all know the manufacture can't make it perfect for every situation and load.



Shop I agree with you on the quality of dealer "mechanics". But when it is under warranty, and especially for emissions crap that they should be liable to fix to 100K, you would think they would know how to fix it. In my case they said my van DEF injector was spraying DEF like crazy. I never put more than a couple gallons in it in 36K. All the dealers claimed the same thing and told me I'd be paying for any more shop visits for the same issue since it worked, at least according to them. Not using DEF seemed to have plugged up my DPF because it was in regen for over an hour every time at 70mph on the expressway. I tried emissions intact tune. That didn't work at all. Tuner is on here and quite reputable. It was going into short regen periods every 100 miles or so, sometimes 20 minutes after doing a full 45 minute burn. Because Edge hasn't made the monitor to read the LGH ECM we weren't able to monitor soot loads or other factors to figure out what was going on. That meant a full delete because I was tired of the regen issues and the massive fuel loss caused by them. And as was stated, EFI removed the capability to screw with emissions stuff even if I could read my ECM tune.



I've talked to several shops that do nothing but trans work. They can help with hard parts, but not any tuning since it is diesel. None of them have been able to explain the rev up or flare in between some of the shifts that only happens sometimes. I had thought of the Transgo to see if it would help. I've used that in other vehicles. I didn't know the trans had to come out in this case though. I'll wait till it explodes before pulling.



My trans doesn't give me as many problems with tow/haul on. My normal shift point is around 1800rpm though and driving with tow/haul on will raise all the shift points and hold higher rpms at lower speeds. One shop had mentioned doing something with the pump to create higher line pressure. I may try that till I can find someone that can fix the issues I am having.


I'm not saying GM did a horrible job on this. They just didn't fine tune it as much as one would have liked. It's just like my gas van that had the 4l80 and did a weird flare on takeoff, everything wasn't perfect and took several years to find out what was causing it. I'm not complaining about it, just stating facts.



6l90etuning.com appears to be invalid site? Any further info? I may do some more digging on a local level. All I have found so far can help with hard parts, torque converter and clutches and such, not with any actual programming. I've even had shops tell me the van never came this way and someone installed the 6l90 and took the Allison out. That tells you how much they know!
 

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The programming is not completely different. I started with EFILive in the early years before anyone knew you could not just a load a truck tune into a van with no issues. The main structure is the same but the small differences are things like prime pump, BCM, etc. Back in 2007 I spent countless hours comparing stock van/truck tunes to mod truck tunes learning what I needed to do to have a safe reliable tune. Your tuner locked your ECM but have you even looked at your TCM ? Go look at your TCM and see what is available to be changed. You are overthinking this so keep it simple and start small.

A good scan tool and a subscription to Alldatadiy you should be able to solve any emissions problems or any other issue. With a good scan tool you can watch a large amount of trans data to see if there was something obvious. Some shops flat out do not want to work on any vans and might give you a line of BS instead of being honest. A huge problem I see at some dealerships with the younger generation is they do not want to diagnose and learn. Instead they go to the end of the flow chart and replace the easy part first and if that fixes it then great if not replace the other part. If that still does not fix it shrug your shoulders and give up.

If all the vans came with the same trans tune but some act differently then the first things I would look at is driving style, mods, tuning, etc. If all those check out then I suspect a hard part issue of some kind. Something that maybe the Transgo Jr would fix if it was an easy install. Trans tuning would be the last thing I would look at unless 100% of all vans had the exact same issue.

When was the last time you serviced it ? I am a big fan of Lubegard products. Are you using full synthetic Dex 6 ? By spec Dex 6 only needs to be a semi-synthetic but I always source a full synthetic.
 

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I tried my ECM before I ever flashed a tune. Couldn't get anything to read. I could get TCM, but nothing on ECM. I can still get the TCM to come up. Been awhile so I don't remember what all is there though.



I only personally know 2 others with diesel vans within 200 miles of me. They both have the same issues I do. One is a 15 and the other a 16. The 16 that is the same as mine is owned by a 70 year old that drives it like your typical grandpa. He still works part time doing longer distance delivery with it. I doubt it has ever seen 2k of rpm. It is bone stock with no mods. Both of these guys have told me theirs have had the issues since brand new. The 15 was tuned due to emissions issues. Not the same issues as mine, but he had enough of fighting the issues.



If I knew for sure the Transgo would fix it I might yank and have it installed. That is a big project to do without knowing if it will fix anything.



Towing as much as I do I change the fluid 20-25k. I put the deeper pan with a drain plug on it to make it easy. I always use full synthetic dex 6. I have not checked out the Lubegard though. I may investigate that the next change.



I have had my scanner on the trans multiple times driving. That is a sure fix because every time it is on I get no problems. The best way I can describe the symptoms is a slip between gears, except it isn't a burnt up trans slip because it has done it since new. It doesn't happen all the time. Usually it is the 2cd to 3rd shift I think. Sometimes it shifts harder into 3rd and 5th. There was a bulletin back about 2010 or 11 that addressed this and GM supposedly fixed it with an updated pump cover design. My issues seem to pretty much follow parts of the problems they had back then except for I have no issues with reverse as was reported then. I don't think that the vans could have the old design pump cover but who knows. Dealer isn't willing to tear it apart to find out!
 
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