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Discussion Starter #1
Wow..........

As suggested I read a few Threads, did not even have to go back more than a few days :shake:

I can see why you have had to make a crackdown, but I say this coming from a Horse Forum that is PG-13 :rotflmao:
Of course on our Forum, we have allowed members to join as young as 13, so we have to have stricter standards.

It is not near as bad as another site I occasionally visit usmessageboard.com :HiHi:

One thing we never allow on the Horse Forum is mocking or discussing Moderator Decisions/Infractions, that is also the case on a few other Forums I visit besides the other one I mentioned.

Is the P&R section open for view after 50 posts or is it something that still has to be by "invitation" even after you have 50 posts?

Kevin
 

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Welcome and thanks for joining our Round Table :HiHi:

I am a noobie mod, so I am not 100% sure if we have any minimum requirements for signing on to our P&R Forum. I checked and there is nothing specifically "stickied" about it. Up until recently I rarely ventured into P&R. But, I just read the sticky for the Round Table and Mark mentions there is a minimum. I learn something new every day :idea:

I think our perspective on sharing mocking or discussing Moderator Decisions/Infractions is so everyone can see we are impartial in handing them out.
 

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R.I.P. Sam
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Is the P&R section open for view after 50 posts or is it something that still has to be by "invitation" even after you have 50 posts?

Kevin
It just doesn't open up till 50 posts, then the big disclaimer is all they get, enter at your own risk.

Most everything else on the site is supposed to be family friendly. This is an old site, so a lot of reasons for why things are the way they are, go back many years and through different ownership.
 
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Bidness is Boomin'!
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I can't imagine having any interest in usmessagenoard.com if it's what you say it is. Like Freddy, I only recently stepped foot in the P&R. What I've found there is generally in bad taste, and is a gross misrepresentation of the majority of our members.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Like Freddy, I only recently stepped foot in the P&R. What I've found there is generally in bad taste, and is a gross misrepresentation of the majority of our members.
That is why we have our News & Politics hidden from view, unless you are signed in member of the Forum.

Could only imagine if some people thinking of joining read some of the posts in there.

We talked of having it by invite only and hidden from all members unless "invited"

But I am not innocent, I have strong Political feelings and use our N&P to post some thoughts, but it is hard to behave sometimes :banghead:


Kevin
 

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Kevin, we aren't discouraging strong political beliefs, just the overboard actions of some of our eight year old acting members. :HiHi:

I mod on another board that is general rated, with the exception of nude pictures (it's a camera forum and even though we allow nudes, genitalia is not allowed and all posts must have NSFW prefix). Other than the occasional damn or hell, no swearing is permitted, and over a year and half ago, we did away with the P&R section, with the exception of it deals with photography, and even then, discussion of politics is not allowed. For example, a member can state that their countries' government recently enacted a law prohibiting the photography of certain buildings, but they can not go on to rail about how corrupt/stupid/inane (you get my drift) the government is. When the P&R section was closed, there was great gnashing of teeth by a small group of members, oddly enough, the same members we had all the problems with, and after a couple weeks, it died away. Occasionally, maybe once every two or three weeks, someone slips, usually a newbie, and we have to delete a message or a thread with a warning, but on the whole, everything runs fine and handful of members we lost weren't contributors outside the P&R forum, so there was no loss to the site.

Anyway, welcome to the forum and we look forward to picking your brain and sharing ideas.
 
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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Tom,

We shut down our N&P section for about 3 weeks, while we discussed trashing it, opening it by invite only or leave as is.

You would think the world had ended, we received a few PM's and had a few Talk to Team threads started and asking what, when and where....

Some of the ones that asked were the same instigators we had problems with.

Nothing is wrong with strong opinions, it is the name calling and saying "insert political part" is destroying the world.

Here is what we came up with for the N&P section

The nature of the subject matter in the News and Politics section means that there is a high likelihood of disparate opinions that can lead to conflict. We understand that people can be very passionate about things, and have always allowed a bit more leeway here, but in order to keep this forum as peaceful as possible, please remember the following:

-Dispute the idea or evidence, do not attack the person posting.
-Avoid absolutes like always, never, all, most, etc., use some, few, etc.
-Avoid bickering, quarreling, and finger pointing.
-Keep your perspective and answers in a friendly debate format.
-Leave the drama, hyperbole and theatrics out of your posts.

Moderators have the option of banning participants from the News and Politics forum exclusively, and will give only one warning.
Moderating is similar sometimes to being the Manager of a Company , I call it "Glorified Babysitter" :HiHi:

Kevin
 

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Well, as you've seen (and for those who join us) P&R is a big problem here.

It goes back to 2003, the origins of the forum, and over the years it's been handled in a variety of ways. The the longest time it was left to a disclaimer that more or less said "Strong views, enter at your own risk".

Needless to say, given the nature of many diesel truck owners (as I'm sure some of the other truck forum staff will attest to if/when they get here), we tend to have a predominately adult male right wing membership.

So, the "hands off" approach to P&R was the status quo for a long time. Basically we all agreed to have it as a hands-off type forum unless we were called in by a report or a PM. The problem with that was that when we were called in what we saw was a wasteland of trash and filth, aside from the one thread we might have been called in for.

Things steadily went downhill for the last few years. It tends to be the same small crowd of people in there (Despite the fact that they'd like to suggest that without P&R the forum as a whole will suffer staggering traffic losses) who all basically have a right wing kumbaya with each other. The issue is...not everyone is right wing.

Now, a few lefties in the mix, and all of a sudden things degrade into childish name calling, insults, and other BS. Add in a healthy mix of intolerance and bigotry along with a "anyone on the left is a retard" attitude on behalf of many of the righties, and things go downhill fast.

It's the childish antics, name calling, and constant barrage of slander and name calling that we finally had enough of.

Several times in the past there was lesser crackdowns. Rules were put in place, people were told to put on their big girl panties and behave, and everyone was told to get their act together....but eventually things slid into the gutter again, and a few months back we started to forumulate some method to get it back under control.

Basically, after much debate amongst the staff, we went with the approach you can now see in there. Clear rules, not particularly overbearing or hard to follow, and clear punishments laid out. And as you can also see from the threads in the last week, the expected fallout was exactly as we expected.

That said, it's been amazingly quiet in there for the last 24 hours or so. I think, must maybe, the message is starting to sink in that P&R is no longer the free for all playground it has been in the past. We will no longer allow it to be a cesspool of antics worthy of a grade school schoolyard.

Anyhow, I think a lot of the threads in there speak for themselves.
 
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That said, it's been amazingly quiet in there for the last 24 hours or so. I think, must maybe, the message is starting to sink in that P&R is no longer the free for all playground it has been in the past. We will no longer allow it to be a cesspool of antics worthy of a grade school schoolyard.
I think it's just that it's the weekend. Wait until tomorrow. :HiHi:
 
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Discussion Starter #11
That said, it's been amazingly quiet in there for the last 24 hours or so. I think, must maybe, the message is starting to sink in that P&R is no longer the free for all playground it has been in the past. We will no longer allow it to be a cesspool of antics worthy of a grade school schoolyard.
Just read the last few threads in N&R, you were saying "quiet" :shake:

It did not take long to find the whiners and troublemakers.

One thread members are saying the Mods are on a Power Trip?
Control Freaks make up rules as they go along?

You guys out up with a lot of abuse in here.

Want to borrow my Ban Hammer for a few days :HiHi:


Kevin
 

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So, I’ve done a little cruising around today…found a few things between our forums that are the same, but quite a few things that are different too.
The demographics certainly come into play I think when talking about how members handle touchy subjects or places. With our PG rating, and knowing that many 8,9,and 10 year old horse crazy children read the public portions (nearly all of HF) we have to be really strict on language, themes, behavior and such.

While we are primarily a female based membership and it can still get down right nasty at times. Divas, drama queens, and whiny mouthy know it all teeny boppers. Plus we have our regular selection of “grown adults” who behave like six year olds having hissy fits that need constant tending and cleaning up after.
Although our N&P (News and Politics) section is viewable only to those signed in, plenty of 13 year olds (and lying 11 year olds) have full access to that area. This means we can’t really be too lenient there either.

Over the last several years our N&P section has also gone down hill with much backbiting and mud slinging happening. Tends to sort of follow a trend of monkey see monkey do. Once an off/rude comment gets posted many others follow suit.
It got to the point where nearly every single thread, no matter what the original topic was about, turned into the same- “It’s the conservatives/liberals fault!” or “It’s the republican/democrats fault!” followed by many insults hurled at members or sides.
I tend not to participate there very often, which I think helps me to not become absorbed in the subject so much and instead look at things from a “rules” point of view, and it was ugly and having a negative impact on the general forum areas.

Like Kevin mentioned, we shut it down for a few weeks and I did some digging on debate platforms to see how we could revamp the guidelines there. I wanted to return it to a place of discussion, not fighting. It’s a work in progress…but I have seen some improvement since we re-opened with our new guidelines.
(Which BTW, love the candor of your announcement in your P&R section!)

As Kevin also mentioned, we do not allow open discussion about moderator action anywhere on the board. It tends to invite whining and complaining which picks up steam in the public eye.. Members are free to speak to us freely about anything they wish via the T4 section, but more often than not they are only looking for an audience to witness their spectacle, and rarely if ever take things to T4.… where they can actually get resolve.
Kind of creates a “If you are going to b*tch about something, bring to T4 so we can fix it! If not, then shut up!” which seems to work since removing the audience usually deflates them.

Anyway, to that end because we tend to be strict about the rules due to our different demographics, and are not shy about banning someone who crosses the line too many times, many of the troublemakers smarten up quick or get themselves booted off.
I also think because we are not as sponsor or vendor driven and there is no upgraded membership there, we might have more wiggle room.

Leah
Admin/Mod- Horse Forum
(the long winded one...:whistle: )
 

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Divas, drama queens, and whiny mouthy know it all teeny boppers. Plus we have our regular selection of “grown adults” who behave like six year olds having hissy fits that need constant tending and cleaning up after.

Although our N&P (News and Politics) section is viewable only to those signed in, plenty of 13 year olds (and lying 11 year olds) have full access to that area. This means we can’t really be too lenient there either.

Over the last several years our N&P section has also gone down hill with much backbiting and mud slinging happening. Tends to sort of follow a trend of monkey see monkey do. Once an off/rude comment gets posted many others follow suit.

It got to the point where nearly every single thread, no matter what the original topic was about, turned into the same- “It’s the conservatives/liberals fault!” or “It’s the republican/democrats fault!” followed by many insults hurled at members or sides.
Sounds very, very familiar. :shake:

We are at least lucky that all our members are adults. It's exceedingly rare that anyone under the age of at least 16 shows up, and if they do it's quickly evident when they post something like "How do I make my dads truck smoke like a freight train!"...the membership eats them for lunch and they wouldn't reach enough posts to gain access to P&R anyways.

As Kevin also mentioned, we do not allow open discussion about moderator action anywhere on the board. It tends to invite whining and complaining which picks up steam in the public eye.. Members are free to speak to us freely about anything they wish via the T4 section
Our demographic here can be way rougher, and as you've seen, many don't take no for an answer. Although we don't mute all efforts for people to voice their opinions about the staff, we do have a policy that we rise above pettyness and always stay professional. I think the 99% of the membership appreciates that when they see the 1% pigpiling us on occasion. In general, most of us have thick skin..you have to to handle this demographic. ;)

We are exceedingly easy to get along with in our regular tech forums. Honestly, I don't really remember the last time we had a food fight outside P&R that we had to step in to, and if things are getting warm/heated in a thread usually a single post asking for everyone to calm down does the trick.

Our staff spends more time keeping things clean and tidy for the most part - posts out of place that need to be moved, that sort of thing.

P&R is an exception. You may have noticed that a good portion of the members in P&R seem to exist only for that forum anymore, rarely if ever contributing much else to the rest of the forum. And they're more than happy to pigpile the staff...but trying to squelch that would (I suspect) end up in more pain than just taking it (within reason) and letting it roll off our backs.

I also think because we are not as sponsor or vendor driven and there is no upgraded membership there, we might have more wiggle room.
The PPM program was something we willingly started here (which could also become a new topic on it's own), having actually chased Autoforums for some time to implement. The main reason was because some people wanted extra features (larger PM boxes, etc) that wasn't part of the regular membership level. In hindsight I wish we had gone about it some other way as the PPM program has had fewer benefits vs pains than we had anticipated. JMHO.
 

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Our demographic here can be way rougher, and as you've seen, many don't take no for an answer. Although we don't mute all efforts for people to voice their opinions about the staff, we do have a policy that we rise above pettyness and always stay professional. I think the 99% of the membership appreciates that when they see the 1% pigpiling us on occasion. In general, most of us have thick skin..you have to to handle this demographic. ;)
I used to work in a male dominated field and know only too well. ;)

We mods have thick skin and get plenty of abuse behind the scenes from the rotten ones, but we have found it's our regular and good members, the majority, that get upset over public discord of any kind. Be it mod bashing, the way things are done bashing, lack of appreciation, bickering among members, whatever, and they are the main reason why we keep things clean and tidy out there. Otherwise the nice and helpful ones will leave.
Guess that is a good thing about the general female demographic.... many just want to hug and make sure everyone gets along. :thumb:

You know...come to think of it, while the majority of our membership is indeed female, the problem members seem to be 50/50 males to females.
Maybe even 60/40 to the males..... :duck:

Either way, the rotten few sure make it hard for the nice many.


Our staff spends more time keeping things clean and tidy for the most part - posts out of place that need to be moved, that sort of thing.

P&R is an exception. You may have noticed that a good portion of the members in P&R seem to exist only for that forum anymore, rarely if ever contributing much else to the rest of the forum. And they're more than happy to pigpile the staff...but trying to squelch that would (I suspect) end up in more pain than just taking it (within reason) and letting it roll off our backs.
We have some who only come for the N&P section as well and seem to live to cause trouble in there, but we still have issues all over the. Horse owners are hugely opinionated and have a hard time sticking with the "If you can't say anything thing nice..." thing.
That, and no one seems to be able to read the rules, even though they are front and center. :confuzeld
 

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but we still have issues all over the. Horse owners are hugely opinionated and have a hard time sticking with the "If you can't say anything thing nice..." thing.
That, and no one seems to be able to read the rules, even though they are front and center. :confuzeld
Yes, I've been around HF long enough to see that. I've bit my tongue in a lot of threads, and have let it slip a little in others when the alternative was to bash ones head into a wall. A few threads I was involved in with this member immediately come to mind. :banghead:

I don't envy the amount of run of the mill moderation you guys surely have to do. We are lucky here that our tech forums are very civil and our members have no trouble with most of the rules. We are quite tame compared to more rough and tumble diesel forums.

...again, P&R aside. :HiHi:
 

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So much for quieted down!! :hehe:
 
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After reading more in the P&R area, I see we have the same types of problems with the same type of players- a certain few who want to hog the sandbox and can’t stand for anyone else to come onto the playground.
And wow :Insane:...they whine worse that old ladies.
(My apologies to any female mods in the upper echelon of life.)

Most of the extreme conservatives/right wings on HF get themselves banned pretty quickly because they simply cannot express themselves without cursing, demeaning others, and openly hurling insults. Vulgarity, crudeness, hate, and hatefulness (language or intent) is very much against our rules and something we just can’t tolerate because we are a world wide forum. To allow those members to espouse hate and intolerance for others will run off many of our valued members. Which I see as being a rather helpful thing in our ability to moderate because the needs of the many often outweigh the needs of a few.
We don’t always want to ban someone, but there have been instances where we’ve had to ban members we liked because they could not follow the rules.

I also see they are being directed to take their grievances to T4 now.
I'm not asking who... but have any dared to do so yet?
 

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Nobody has take us up on the offer, I'm not surprised. I think it was you guys who had mentioned more or less "when you take away all their buddies to run to their defense on a thread suddenly they're not so willing to speak up".

Sure enough that's exactly what happened here. We've had a few
PM's but not much else since we finally locked all the whining threads and said it was time to move on.
 
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