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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So heres the deal, its an 83 jimmy 6.2 with 89000. Its been a little rough starting when its cold, normally takes a few tries since its been around 30 out, but she has started every morning. Yesterday, i go out, crank her over, get it started, and go inside to let her warm up since it was closer to 20 out. When i go outside, shes not running. Try to start her again but i crank till the battery dies (about 4 5+ second cranks). I get my friends car, hook jumper cables up, let it sit 5 min, and try again. Fires for maybe 2 seconds then dies. Since then have had it on a battery charger trying to get it started with absolutly no luck. She had B100 for sinclairs in her with maybe 50% normal diesel. I put more regular diesel in with some anti gel, since the temp has no dropped to -7 out. We towed it to a friends house and i put it in the garage with space heaters around her to try to get her warmed up thinking it was gelled fuel. Still no luck starting. Glow plug light comes on, turns off after about 8 seconds, then cycles on for 2-3 seconds off for 5-10. Tried spraying some wd-40 into the airbox inlet, not even so much as a pop. Where should i start looking. BTW runs GREAT once she starts and warms up for 2-3 minutes. Im supposed to leave to drive home for the holidays today so need help ASAP
 

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how long had it been since you changed the filters? might try new filters
and then go through the whole air bleed out procedure,

if you don't want to go there try cracking a injector line or two and then crank the motor, is fuel spiting out? if not its a fuel issue
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
excuse my ignorance but i just bought the rig a week ago and its my first diesel, i normally build land cruisers and vw. Few quick Q's.....the IP is under the air filter, with the hard lines running to it correct? Should i loosen the injector lines at the injector (i take it the injectors have hard lines running to them and are just under the valve cover?) I have a round style main fuel filter, and there is a barbed vavle sticking out the top with a wingnut kinda thing on it. Should i loosen this to see if fuel pumps out of it?
 

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The thing under the intake manifold is the Injector pump. Those metal lines run to all the injectors, not to the valve covers.. although the do run overtop of the valve covers.

After replacing the filter.. which very well could be the issue, you will open that valve to bleed the air out.. eventually you should get fuel coming out of that valve but it will probably take some cranking.. try putting some fuel in there before installing the new filter.

If you install and bleed the air out of the lines and you still don't feel it starts, then you should try cracking an injector line at the injector pump.. just one and watch for fuel to drip out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok i'll try to crack one of the injector lines to check for fuel. Also can i disconnect the Out line from the primary fuel filter to check for fuel without having to bleed the system with an air compressor, because i dont have one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
so after having the heaters on all night i cranked her over for around 15 seconds after spraying some wd-40, got her to fire up and run for maybe 2 min, and while i was putting the air cleaner box back on she died again. While it was running there was a fair amount of grayish smoke....

sounds like gelled fuel?
 

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Not necessarily. Have you changed the fuel filter (if you do remember to fill it with fuel before you install the new one)? And did you just start running bio? If you just started running biodiesel there is a significant chance the fuel filter is packed full of gunk...

Also, how much fuel was in it total?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
its got 1/2 tank in it, this is the first time i was able to put bio in it but the PO said he sometimes ran it (no idea how much how often) but i've gone through maybe 1/4 with the bio in there.


and if i remember correctly the fuel filter has less then a thousand on it according to the PO, it looks brand new but of course thats not saying much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
i pulled the filter and just got a new one, but forgot to get diesel while my friend was driving me around to fill the new one up **bangs head** so i have to wait till he gets back, but i pour the fuel that was in the filter into a cup and its very cloudy and a muddish green color, bad i assume? Should stick a tube down in the tank and pull some out to see if the fuel in the tank looks the same, and if so drain and refill?

also waiting for him to get back with my tool chest so i can crack open an injector line
 

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i had the same problem in my K5 when i first bought it. the B100 will bust loose all kinds of gunk on the walls of the tank. it took me at least a week to figure out what was going on.

diesel fuel will leave a film of sulpher and sediment inside the tank. more so if it has sat for a while. when you put in B100 it will start to break this layer down, and it will clog everything up.

it was so hard for me to figure out what was going on because all the gunk would settle to the bottom of the tank, then when i drove it would get mixed in with the fuel and clog everything up. when i was testing the fuel it looked clean, everytime i tested the fuel the truck had been sitting. I installed a clear inline filter, thats when i figured out what was going on.
 

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there is some sort of sock in the tank on the fuel pick up. when it senses water ar that level its supposed to close off and pick up higher up. this whole set up could be plugged up and its only getting fuel when your fuller. i'm just going from memory, i'd have to check manual to see how it all worked
 

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Disconnect the fuel return at the top of the fuel injector pump and observe while cranking. That along should tell you if you have a fuel starvation problem or not. If you have fuel then your next step is to see if your cold advance system is working. With the ignition on disconnect the cold advance wire fromn the solenoid and reconnect, you should hear a clicking sound, if you do then the solenoid is at least working. Whenever you get that beast running there is one more step in checking the cold advance system and that is to take a long flat tip screw driver and actuate that lever that goes down and along side the injector pump. If you hear a noticeable difference in the idle while the engine is cold then the cold advance is working. Those diesels use two cold starting systems in conjunction with each other. Glowplugs and cold advance. BTW If you see heavy white smoke while trying to start the beast then that is an indication that the engine is receiving fuel, just not "advanced"
Advanced means that the piston further heats the fuel/air mixture after the glowplugs had their chance to heat it up in the precombustion chamber.
It is always good to take a multimeter and check all 8 glowplugs for resistance now that its winter. You need both cold starting systems.
Stay thehellaway from ether! If you are ever forced to use it just use it in small controlled amounts.
 

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Disconnect the fuel return at the top of the fuel injector pump and observe while cranking. That along should tell you if you have a fuel starvation problem or not.
That is one method. Another (perhaps simpler) way to do it would be to simply open the air bleed while cranking the engine. There should be fuel pressure there.

If you have fuel then your next step is to see if your cold advance system is working. With the ignition on disconnect the cold advance wire fromn the solenoid and reconnect, you should hear a clicking sound, if you do then the solenoid is at least working.
I don't think so. The cold advance isn't going to noticeably affect cold starting, much less cause it not to start. The purpose of the cold advance system is NOT to improve cold starting, it is to improve engine warmup POST-startup. With a no-start you do want to check the ignition solenoid in the IP using the same procedure (pull the wire off - for the ignition solenoid it would be the RED wire)

Whenever you get that beast running there is one more step in checking the cold advance system and that is to take a long flat tip screw driver and actuate that lever that goes down and along side the injector pump. If you hear a noticeable difference in the idle while the engine is cold then the cold advance is working
When did the advance piston actuator become the cold advance? The screwdriver test will tell you if the advance piston is functioning. The advance piston mechanism advances the ignition timing as more throttle is applied, regardless of engine temperature. The cold advance (HPCA - Housing Pressure Cold Advance) system is a simple mechanism, with an electric solenoid which moves a check ball, changing the housing pressure and thereby advancing the ignition timing. That's all there is to it. The entire HPCA system (except for wiring of course) is in the top cover of the IP, and does not really relate to other parts of the pump.

Those diesels use two cold starting systems in conjunction with each other. Glowplugs and cold advance.
Glow plugs. Period. Cold advance hardly effects cold starting, as noted above. Cranking speed and compression are the other key factors, but really the only COLD starting system is the glow plug system.

White smoke is, in fact, and indication the engine is getting fuel. The white smoke is unignited fuel vapor, indicating a malfunction in the glow plug system.

Advanced means that the piston further heats the fuel/air mixture after the glowplugs had their chance to heat it up in the precombustion chamber.
Incorrect. "Advanced" means that ignition occurs sooner relative to the position of the piston on its stroke. This means, on a diesel, that the fuel is injected sooner relative to piston position. From a technical standpoint, actual timing "advance" is measured by comparing the point of fuel injection (if you check timing from the IP or using a pulse-type timing light) or ignition (if you use a luminosity probe in a glow plug hole) to crankshaft position (a good way to measure piston position). This is done using the familiar timing light.
 

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monze Quoted:
That is one method. Another (perhaps simpler) way to do it would be to simply open the air bleed while cranking the engine. There should be fuel pressure there.
Fuel pressure at whatever air bleed can be confusing. If it taken from the primary fuel filter then you are bypassing #1 the the fuel return, you need to see if the fuel return is excessively pressurized back towards the fuel tank. If this is so then chances are your Injection pump will shut off on you. This is why you alway want to check right at the fuel return line first.

monze Quoted:
When did the advance piston actuator become the cold advance? The screwdriver test will tell you if the advance piston is functioning. The advance piston mechanism advances the ignition timing as more throttle is applied, regardless of engine temperature. The cold advance (HPCA - Housing Pressure Cold Advance) system is a simple mechanism, with an electric solenoid which moves a check ball, changing the housing pressure and thereby advancing the ignition timing. That's all there is to it. The entire HPCA system (except for wiring of course) is in the top cover of the IP, and does not really relate to other parts of the pump.
I am familiar with HPCA
This is called the light load advance test. I know exactly just what you are talking about and don't dispute. When the truck goes under load You don't want the advance still kicked in. Under throttle the throttle bypasses light load advance.
Glow plugs. Period. Cold advance hardly effects cold starting, as noted above. "Quoted by monze Cranking speed and compression are the other key factors, but really the only COLD starting system is the glow plug system. Unquote" Not so.
We can beg to differ monze, its OK. This is how knowledge happens. Starting problems do happen because of cold advance not working, trust me. When you compress fuel it still heats up and adds to the equation. there is troubleshooting sequences all over my manuals to prove it.

Monze Quoted:
I don't think so. The cold advance isn't going to noticeably affect cold starting, much less cause it not to start. The purpose of the cold advance system is NOT to improve cold starting, it is to improve engine warmup POST-startup. With a no-start you do want to check the ignition solenoid in the IP using the same procedure (pull the wire off - for the ignition solenoid it would be the RED wire)
monze did you know that some diesel systems to include the 6.2s and the 6.5s Hummwvs still actuate the glow plug systems while the engine is running and this is while the cold advance system is engaged?


monze Quoted:
Incorrect. "Advanced" means that ignition occurs sooner relative to the position of the piston on its stroke. This means, on a diesel, that the fuel is injected sooner relative to piston position. From a technical standpoint, actual timing "advance" is measured by comparing the point of fuel injection (if you check timing from the IP or using a pulse-type timing light) or ignition (if you use a luminosity probe in a glow plug hole) to crankshaft position (a good way to measure piston position). This is done using the familiar timing light.
To clear things up a bit and we let the sleeping dog lay.
Cold Advance means to advance fuel through the injectors and of course they will ignite a bit sooner, that's why you hear the knocking at intersections and not under load.
Not to be stubborn, there is room to disagree. The primary cold starting is in fact glow plugs and they continue to cycle in some diesels even when the engine runs. They cycle in a much lighter and quicker fashion. the cold advance system does in fact serve to warm up the block but it also serves as a secondary assistant to cold starting.
 
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