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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
"Marine injectors" make 40 more hp?



Stock tip # 304
Marine tip # 311
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Stand set to 70 cc fixed using test calibration nozzles
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3,000 rpm
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311
130 bar 69 cc
142 bar 67 cc
146 bar 65 cc

304
142 bar 64.5 cc

1,600 rpm
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311
130 bar 41 cc
142 bar 51 cc
146 bar 46.5 cc

304
142 bar 49 cc

Conclusion: Marine injectors basically put out the same amount of fuel unless you drop the popping pressure to stock specs.

Marine injector output drops dramatically at low speed especially if you drop the pressure real low. Pressure plays a critical role with different combinations.

Atomization does not appear to be affected by the slight pressure changes. If anybody has a simple way to verify atomization please let me know.

These specs really need a graph, so somebody can jump right in and make one.

Some tests were not performed on the stock nozzles because that's not what this subject is about and it takes to long to test all the possibilities.

Myth > Busted.

Someone told me Army injectors make more power, but that might be just a myth. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Injector Numbers
BOSCH
New #-----------Body #----Reman----Tip-----Pressure---Application
0432217081....0430211051...NA50X...0SD248....126 bar......6.2L 1982
???????????.....0430211058...NA52X...0SD253....126 bar......6.2L Long body
0432217092....0430211054...NA51X...0SD253....126 bar......6.2L Short body
0432217229....0430211054....??????...0SD304....126 bar......6.5L N.A.
0432217251....0430211054....??????...0SD304....142 bar......6.5L Turbo
0432217255....0430211054....??????...0SD311....150 bar......6.5L TD Marine
0432217275....0430211097....??????...OSD304....126 bar......6.5L N.A.
0432217276....0430211097....NA56X...0SD304....142 bar......6.5L Turbo

"bar" is equal to 1 atmosphere - multiply 14.7psia by the number on each line to determine actual injection pressure

Delphi Injectors
6703803---6.5 T.D.
6703802---6.5 N.A.
6703801---6.2 "Van" Short fine thread
6704001---6.2 Long fine thread.

Standyne Injectors (New)
37818 10233973 6.5L T.D. same as 0432217276 6703803
38272 10233972 6.5L N.A. same as 0432217275 6703802

* Info has not been verified but is believed to be accurate till somebody proves otherwise.

Try get'n this info anywhere off the net.
 

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Your results show that at 142 bar the marine nozzles dump more fuel than OE.

When I bought my HO injectors from Heath I was told that pop pressure was stock - only change was the nozzle.

Myth completely busted? Depends on pressure....like you said....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
3.5 cc difference in output is only achieved when the pressure is changed to stock. Marine injectors are set higher than stock and output remains vertually the same. If you use factory settings for both marine and stock the difference is nothing. So myth busted.
 

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I'm not familiar with your test equipment. Any injector test equipment for that matter. Marine's are reported to work with a modified ECM. The 70cc test stand you used is more like a Factory program. Would a 85-90cc stand show different results?
 

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Re-graph....this time it should be right...
 

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A test of 80 mm^3 at 3000 RPM would be great if possible...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not familiar with your test equipment. Any injector test equipment for that matter. Marine's are reported to work with a modified ECM. The 70cc test stand you used is more like a Factory program. Would a 85-90cc stand show different results?
70 cc's is the Stanadyne spec (70mm/3/stroke)

This is the max setting for the 5521 pump on the test stand with the calibrated nozzle holder assemblies designed for that specific pump. I set the pump to max setting and then recorded the results with the stock/marine injectors.

I am not prepared to do extensive testing nor do I desire to.

Point was to prove whether or not marine injectors put out enough extra fuel to produce another 40 hp. In this case it did not.
 

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70 cc's is the Stanadyne spec (70mm/3/stroke)

This is the max setting for the 5521 pump on the test stand with the calibrated nozzle holder assemblies designed for that specific pump. I set the pump to max setting and then recorded the results with the stock/marine injectors.

I am not prepared to do extensive testing nor do I desire to.

Point was to prove whether or not marine injectors put out enough extra fuel to produce another 40 hp. In this case it did not.
U Da Man
 

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With really rough math, and you only add 3 mm3 of fuel extra, that would mean that you have turned a 195hp engine into a 204hp engine with that much extra fuel. That is of course dependent upon many, many variables.
 

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Nice work DP.

In my lifetime experiences, here is what I have learned. A higher pop pressure does not cause more fuel to be added. Higher pops make a finer atomization, and also delay opening a tad (Same as advancing the ignition on a gas engine), but only to a very small degree.

Higher pop injector allows fine tuning an engine, but no way does it make buttloads of HP in itself. Going to hi pop injectors and expecting 40hp gains is like changing your spark plugs and expecting 40hp. Ain't gonna happen. Going hi pop, and adding more injection duration, and yeah... you are gonna get more hp.
 

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70 cc's is the Stanadyne spec (70mm/3/stroke)

This is the max setting for the 5521 pump on the test stand with the calibrated nozzle holder assemblies designed for that specific pump. I set the pump to max setting and then recorded the results with the stock/marine injectors.

I am not prepared to do extensive testing nor do I desire to.

Point was to prove whether or not marine injectors put out enough extra fuel to produce another 40 hp. In this case it did not.

That's too bad. I would have liked to see if the HO injectors release more fuel at higher fuel outputs like the vendors claim.

Thanks for the information you provided!
 

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What is the stock output of the 5068 pump. If it is higher than the 5521, could it be put on stand to test the injector flow.
 

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With really rough math, and you only add 3 mm3 of fuel extra, that would mean that you have turned a 195hp engine into a 204hp engine with that much extra fuel. That is of course dependent upon many, many variables.
We could do the same going from a #5 PMD resistor to a #9..........
 

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DP

I’m sure everybody here appreciates your input and I’m no different, but…

I think for you to say ‘Myth Busted’, is inaccurate. What you have proved is that a Marine Injector doesn’t flow enough fuel to support the HP Claims with a factory program.

You said Stanadyne sets their stand to 70mm output. A good percentage here have aftermarket ecm’s. Reported rumors have claimed upwards of 85mm with a modified program. Would an 85mm stand show different results? I don’t know, I’m asking.

Two of the most reputable Vendors here have either said or advertised increases in HP. One has said ~25hp and the other advertised ~40hp with his ecm. Maybe not all Marine Injectors are created equal or your testing is incomplete.

Whether or not you do more testing makes no difference. You have backed up with what you have stated for a long time. I think there are more variables for it to be conclusive though.

Regardless, I've made my choice on the purchase.

Myth not completely busted...
 

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Nice work DP.

In my lifetime experiences, here is what I have learned. A higher pop pressure does not cause more fuel to be added. Higher pops make a finer atomization, and also delay opening a tad (Same as advancing the ignition on a gas engine), but only to a very small degree.

Higher pop injector allows fine tuning an engine, but no way does it make buttloads of HP in itself. Going to hi pop injectors and expecting 40hp gains is like changing your spark plugs and expecting 40hp. Ain't gonna happen. Going hi pop, and adding more injection duration, and yeah... you are gonna get more hp.
Wouldnt you get more power just adding more fuel, too? Or would adding more fuel make more power with the marine injectors than it would with stock ones? Its only roughly a 60 PSI difference.... is that enough to make a difference?
 

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I don't support the 40 hp just from marine injectors in a truck.

I don't think you will see any difference from the naked eye on spray pattern comparing the 2 nozzles.

I have seen high speed camera recording of injectors and a larger nozzle orifice will flow the diesel a bit faster (all else the same). Its a small change and only a few micro seconds difference in a couple mm penetration. A guestimate of time the piston stays at TDC over a 2 degree arc of crank travel is 0.129 seconds (at 2800 rpm). So faster penetration of fuel at higher fuel rates and higher RPM probably makes a difference (maybe to economy or emissions and or power). I have always appreciated these are factory injectors from reputable manufactures and if it makes a difference to them then there is probably a difference.

Do they change speed or rate of temp rise in cylinder ???? I think Marine nozzles help for thier application - steadier higher fuel rates and higher sustained RPM's.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The injector is not a restriction. It is capable of twice the flow easily.
The pump is the weak link.
 
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