Nick has asked that I bring the discussion to a new thread. This way the original thread and report can be permanantly archived in the Sticky's. So, carry on! Same discussion under a new title! SPICER
Lubricity Additive Study Discussion
SPICER
241 - 260 of 440 Posts
G'day, I have followed the contributions to this thread with great interest sin Spicer first posted the test results into the efficiency and merits of various fuel additives in currently being peddled in the marketplace. Firstly, I would like to state that I am not a scientist nor and engineer. Secondly, being Australian I live in a country economically and environmental very like the USA, but socially and politically similar to Canada. Until recently, non commercial diesel vehicles were very rare and the class of vehicle such as the 2008 GMC 2500HD LMM Duramax 6-Speed Allison Crew Cab 4x4 Z71 rarer still. However with the current fuel crisis and dramatic price increases, diesel engines( mostly European and Japanese) have gained popularity as has Bio-diesel and Ethanol. ( although bio-diesel receives no government assistance and actually attracts additional tax!!!!). Hmmmm...but I digress.
Naturally there has been a tremendous interest in the various fuel saver, fuel additive technology promoted. Some of these are simply pathetic scams originating from, but long since discredited in USA, and hoping to find a new following among the gullible rubes in Australia.(particularly multi-level scams). Some of these product are really bizarre, while others would appear to have some surface credibility. One example of this kind of semi-scientific product description is as follows:-
The Centron ll E3008 MCF Electro-Phoresis Dynamics (EPD)
treatment is superior as because instead of relying on heat or friction to coat the engine parts,EPD utilizes the bar magnet quality of polarity, the universal principal that opposite poles attract. The engine pre-treatment, bottle1, the POLARIZER> this gives
the metal surface a powerful CATIONIC or electo-positive charge . The treatment itself, bottle 2, the ANIONIC, or electro negative, seeks out out the cationic and locks onto the metal surface. The result is long term (100,000 klms+) protection.Centron ll uses PTFE at the lower end of the engine,(shafts,journals,bearings and cylinder walls) to give it a tough, slippery film of longlife lubrication. But ant the other end, on
the rings, in the high-temperature, oil destroying area of the combustion chamber Centron ll makes the most dramatic difference from oil additives.MCF(Metallo-Chhlorbutanol Flurethylene) resistant to 2500-3000F,gives the engine piston rings a similar protective coating as the bearings receive. It is THIS coating which traps the combustion energy above the piston crown and delivers it to the crankshaft.
I must state that the rest of the products in the Centron 11 range would appear to be astonishingly similar to products from the well respected Centron Energy Corporation USA, who deny all knowledge of Centron 11 Australia.
Is it just sceptically old me, or have Centron 11 (aus) really discovered an lubricant delivery elixir that has defied the best US technology ?? Hmmm..why do I doubt well probably because this is the most information I could obtain on this 'revolutionary" product. (4Ethos anyone?)
I would appreciate any views from guy's with more knowledge than me.
Naturally there has been a tremendous interest in the various fuel saver, fuel additive technology promoted. Some of these are simply pathetic scams originating from, but long since discredited in USA, and hoping to find a new following among the gullible rubes in Australia.(particularly multi-level scams). Some of these product are really bizarre, while others would appear to have some surface credibility. One example of this kind of semi-scientific product description is as follows:-
The Centron ll E3008 MCF Electro-Phoresis Dynamics (EPD)
treatment is superior as because instead of relying on heat or friction to coat the engine parts,EPD utilizes the bar magnet quality of polarity, the universal principal that opposite poles attract. The engine pre-treatment, bottle1, the POLARIZER> this gives
the metal surface a powerful CATIONIC or electo-positive charge . The treatment itself, bottle 2, the ANIONIC, or electro negative, seeks out out the cationic and locks onto the metal surface. The result is long term (100,000 klms+) protection.Centron ll uses PTFE at the lower end of the engine,(shafts,journals,bearings and cylinder walls) to give it a tough, slippery film of longlife lubrication. But ant the other end, on
the rings, in the high-temperature, oil destroying area of the combustion chamber Centron ll makes the most dramatic difference from oil additives.MCF(Metallo-Chhlorbutanol Flurethylene) resistant to 2500-3000F,gives the engine piston rings a similar protective coating as the bearings receive. It is THIS coating which traps the combustion energy above the piston crown and delivers it to the crankshaft.
I must state that the rest of the products in the Centron 11 range would appear to be astonishingly similar to products from the well respected Centron Energy Corporation USA, who deny all knowledge of Centron 11 Australia.
Is it just sceptically old me, or have Centron 11 (aus) really discovered an lubricant delivery elixir that has defied the best US technology ?? Hmmm..why do I doubt well probably because this is the most information I could obtain on this 'revolutionary" product. (4Ethos anyone?)
I would appreciate any views from guy's with more knowledge than me.
Sound like double-talk, "snake oil" scam to me. I've never heard of a magnetic liquid, especially one with such miraculous properties.
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90 Posts
Ever hear of sea foam? Been around for longer than most others in the study just wondering how come it was not tested - I know it works well with Gas engines - Never tried it with Diesel but it is supposed to work well with diesel also.
Seafoam is cleaning additive. It is not an additive that claims to increase lubricity in ULSD fuel. The study was on how much lubricity properties of certain additive. There was a thread on the discussion of what was tested and a lot of members were donating for their favorite additive. You can search on that.
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90 Posts
http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechDiesel.htm
They claim it does it all -- I have used it in my Skidloader helps alot starting cold and starting in general - Have not tried any additives with ULSD yet.
Have also used it in gassers works wonders on them
They claim it does it all -- I have used it in my Skidloader helps alot starting cold and starting in general - Have not tried any additives with ULSD yet.
Have also used it in gassers works wonders on them
Remember, gas and diesel are two different animals. I am not trying to argue here. I know they claim to do everything, like many other additive. Do a search and you will find your answer. You can also go to Bobistheoilguy. A few of their moderators who owns diesel hang out here also. You can start a new thread in this section.
By the way, I used it in my Camry also, doing it through the vacuum system to clean the carbon. It is good cleaner. It is Naphta based which is similar to Alcohol. The chemist can shoot me but I think alcohol is not compatible with diesel. So I am leery to put it in the diesel since there are a lot of other good additive specially made for diesel.
If you want to try it, do so and report the result to us. Don't say that I recommend it.
By the way, I used it in my Camry also, doing it through the vacuum system to clean the carbon. It is good cleaner. It is Naphta based which is similar to Alcohol. The chemist can shoot me but I think alcohol is not compatible with diesel. So I am leery to put it in the diesel since there are a lot of other good additive specially made for diesel.
If you want to try it, do so and report the result to us. Don't say that I recommend it.
Joined
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90 Posts
well i have not added anything and probably will not most of our diesel has 2% bio in it. i was just curious have never seen any performance studies on Sea Foam. It is also only one of the additives i have actually seen work on gassers and older diesels do not know about the newer ones. My case is 1982. however i do not add it every tank.
A bit late to the party here, but what the hell....
Excellent thread! Thanks to the originators and contributors for an interesting read.
Just to throw my $0.02cdn in here, I was looking for a biodiesel source for our trucks and boats at work, and found a supplier who was willing to sell me a barrel of ASTM B100 for my personal use as well. I drive a stock 1997 F250 with the 7.3 litre Navistar in it. (I know, forum troll...) Mostly highway commuting to work with some hay hauling and odd jobs on the weekends and occasionally hauling a 7500 lb. boat and trailer. The truck just turned over 190,000 kilometres. I fuel up every week to 10 days. I have the following data series:
Pre-biodiesel, using ULSD: 22 fills, averaging 13.16 litres per 100 kilometres or 21.52 miles per (Canadian) gallon.
Biodiesel, starting at 5% and building up to 25% over 8 fills, with a total of 16 fills: 13.79 l/100 kms., 20.65 mpg.
ULSD only (ran out of B100, took a while to get more): 6 fills, 13.81 l/100kms., 20.58 mpg.
I'm not convinced I'm seeing a real mileage drop due to the lower BTUs of biodiesel. Using cruise control, following the speed limit, and staying out of town as much as possible can produce a greater difference in mpg between fills for me. I also spent three weeks during the biodiesel period this winter with a half ton of hay under the canopy (2WD - it was snowing and I needed the traction) which drops the mpgs down close to 19.
With the warm weather arriving (and the spike in diesel versus biodiesel prices) I may jack the mix up to B50 and see how things develop.
Excellent thread! Thanks to the originators and contributors for an interesting read.
Just to throw my $0.02cdn in here, I was looking for a biodiesel source for our trucks and boats at work, and found a supplier who was willing to sell me a barrel of ASTM B100 for my personal use as well. I drive a stock 1997 F250 with the 7.3 litre Navistar in it. (I know, forum troll...) Mostly highway commuting to work with some hay hauling and odd jobs on the weekends and occasionally hauling a 7500 lb. boat and trailer. The truck just turned over 190,000 kilometres. I fuel up every week to 10 days. I have the following data series:
Pre-biodiesel, using ULSD: 22 fills, averaging 13.16 litres per 100 kilometres or 21.52 miles per (Canadian) gallon.
Biodiesel, starting at 5% and building up to 25% over 8 fills, with a total of 16 fills: 13.79 l/100 kms., 20.65 mpg.
ULSD only (ran out of B100, took a while to get more): 6 fills, 13.81 l/100kms., 20.58 mpg.
I'm not convinced I'm seeing a real mileage drop due to the lower BTUs of biodiesel. Using cruise control, following the speed limit, and staying out of town as much as possible can produce a greater difference in mpg between fills for me. I also spent three weeks during the biodiesel period this winter with a half ton of hay under the canopy (2WD - it was snowing and I needed the traction) which drops the mpgs down close to 19.
With the warm weather arriving (and the spike in diesel versus biodiesel prices) I may jack the mix up to B50 and see how things develop.
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11 Posts
I recently read the Lubricity Additive Study Results and it popped up some questions that you could help me with. From a wvo burner's perspective:
1) Do I have a lubricity problem running wvo? I assume yes, as you can't get much lower sulfer in fuel than wvo.
2)As the additives are added into the diesel tank, I won't be running much of it through my engine running on wvo most of the time. So should I add it to wvo? Adding it to my vo would cause it to run through the engine more than the diesel tank, although I would do both.
3)I recently pulled my intake manifold off and saw a little bit of coking on one of the valve rods. Not able to do an injector replacement right now, so Many of these additives are both a cleaner and a lubricant. I am wondering if I should add some injector cleaner to the fuel system. If so, then back to question #2?
4)Will it cause problems to add such an injection cleaner to wvo? If not then what kind? (I already know to stay away from alcohol based cleaners used for gas engines.)
These questions may have been posted before, but after 2hr looking, I couldn't find them, so here they are (possibly again).
__________________
98 Chevy 6.5L K3500 Turbo, Crew Cab, 4X4 Longbed it's soooo big it takes up two parking spots and needs it's own zip code!
![Image]()
1) Do I have a lubricity problem running wvo? I assume yes, as you can't get much lower sulfer in fuel than wvo.
2)As the additives are added into the diesel tank, I won't be running much of it through my engine running on wvo most of the time. So should I add it to wvo? Adding it to my vo would cause it to run through the engine more than the diesel tank, although I would do both.
3)I recently pulled my intake manifold off and saw a little bit of coking on one of the valve rods. Not able to do an injector replacement right now, so Many of these additives are both a cleaner and a lubricant. I am wondering if I should add some injector cleaner to the fuel system. If so, then back to question #2?
4)Will it cause problems to add such an injection cleaner to wvo? If not then what kind? (I already know to stay away from alcohol based cleaners used for gas engines.)
These questions may have been posted before, but after 2hr looking, I couldn't find them, so here they are (possibly again).
__________________
98 Chevy 6.5L K3500 Turbo, Crew Cab, 4X4 Longbed it's soooo big it takes up two parking spots and needs it's own zip code!
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136 Posts
Power Up Additives
http://www.powerupusa.net
Tested?
I test all the additives on a Timken bearing load test machine (except Gen49D fuel additive). They outperform any oil on the market, bar none, with only 1oz/qt. WalMart oil with PU outperforms them all for load, temp, lubricity, film affinity...
http://www.powerupusa.net
Tested?
I test all the additives on a Timken bearing load test machine (except Gen49D fuel additive). They outperform any oil on the market, bar none, with only 1oz/qt. WalMart oil with PU outperforms them all for load, temp, lubricity, film affinity...
Marvel Mystery Oil
Hi all,
I have been on blended soy wvo and K1 in my daughtre's '85 190d and my own '90 suburban 6.2 na for 3 years. 7 months of the year.
3 ounces of MMO 3 ounces of RUG per 5 gals of 80/20 and 60/40.
No issues after 30k miles each.
The MMO smells sweeter.
After 22 years and 650 hours in my '67 Chris Craft Chevy 350 ci engines I have no problem 32 mph at 3800rpm Sunday 10 min. to 220 F oil temp. Installed by me. '69 4 bolt truck short blocks.
40 years in gas engines and I like the product.
I just experienced Seafoam in my younger daughter's 82 300sd w/123k miles and a lot of blowby.
Less blowby after and 5k mile later.
Always have used Rotella 14-40.
I purchased a 2004 GMC LB7 ex-cab-shortbed in May and love it so far 5k later at 125k.
50/50 blend is great. 16 + mpg so far. With full cap on.
18.5 no cap bringing it from Memphis,Tn to Chicago,IL.
Lencike (spell) was the best product I ever used and did penitrate steel.
Soaked a Honda Motorcycle Crankshaft overnight in it and degreased the crank the next day and left alone it sweat a oilly flim in an hour.
I used it in a '61 Maico 250cc and welded the connecting rod to the crankshaft without scoring the piston.
I do know it was a fish oil base. I don't know what happened to the company. Chicago based.
Ed
Too many toys.
Hi all,
I have been on blended soy wvo and K1 in my daughtre's '85 190d and my own '90 suburban 6.2 na for 3 years. 7 months of the year.
3 ounces of MMO 3 ounces of RUG per 5 gals of 80/20 and 60/40.
No issues after 30k miles each.
The MMO smells sweeter.
After 22 years and 650 hours in my '67 Chris Craft Chevy 350 ci engines I have no problem 32 mph at 3800rpm Sunday 10 min. to 220 F oil temp. Installed by me. '69 4 bolt truck short blocks.
40 years in gas engines and I like the product.
I just experienced Seafoam in my younger daughter's 82 300sd w/123k miles and a lot of blowby.
Less blowby after and 5k mile later.
Always have used Rotella 14-40.
I purchased a 2004 GMC LB7 ex-cab-shortbed in May and love it so far 5k later at 125k.
50/50 blend is great. 16 + mpg so far. With full cap on.
18.5 no cap bringing it from Memphis,Tn to Chicago,IL.
Lencike (spell) was the best product I ever used and did penitrate steel.
Soaked a Honda Motorcycle Crankshaft overnight in it and degreased the crank the next day and left alone it sweat a oilly flim in an hour.
I used it in a '61 Maico 250cc and welded the connecting rod to the crankshaft without scoring the piston.
I do know it was a fish oil base. I don't know what happened to the company. Chicago based.
Ed
Too many toys.
Joined
·
136 Posts
Kleenoil Bypass Filters and Power Up Additives
http://www.kleenoilusa.com
http://www.powerupusa.net
Check out the websites and compare to any filter or additive on the market.
I regularly test ANY oil or additive against Power UP NNL690 and nothing comes close. All testing is done on a Timken bearing load test machine. The least expensive conventional oil with 1oz/qt. Power Up added outperforms the most expensive and "reputable" lubricants on the market by 5 times the load capacity, temps to 400+ degrees, and wear scars 10% those of ALL other oils and/or additives on the market. If you want a list or more information email me at extremeduty@frontiernet.net.
Kleenoil filters are 3 micron absolute/1micron nominal and remove water down to 0.05%, far outperforming the competition.
ALL filter claims based on 3rd party oil analysis. Run cleaner than brand new ALL the time.. ISO figures.
http://www.kleenoilusa.com
http://www.powerupusa.net
Check out the websites and compare to any filter or additive on the market.
I regularly test ANY oil or additive against Power UP NNL690 and nothing comes close. All testing is done on a Timken bearing load test machine. The least expensive conventional oil with 1oz/qt. Power Up added outperforms the most expensive and "reputable" lubricants on the market by 5 times the load capacity, temps to 400+ degrees, and wear scars 10% those of ALL other oils and/or additives on the market. If you want a list or more information email me at extremeduty@frontiernet.net.
Kleenoil filters are 3 micron absolute/1micron nominal and remove water down to 0.05%, far outperforming the competition.
ALL filter claims based on 3rd party oil analysis. Run cleaner than brand new ALL the time.. ISO figures.
Correct me please, if I am wrong on this:
It is my understanding that the reduction in lubricity is an indirect result of removing the sulphur in diesel fuel. The processes used to remove sulphur during refining, also have the effect of drastically reducing the amount of parafins (wax) present. It was these waxes that were providing the extra lubricity in the pre ULSD days. Sulphur is taboo in fuel oils now because of SO2 emissions-the same reason coal fired power plants are under such scrutiny.
On another note. I would like to see some testing regarding the use of ATF as an additive. My old J-code seems to love it-it runs better, with much less injector noise that with anything else. Two-stroke oil seems to have much the same effect.
It is my understanding that the reduction in lubricity is an indirect result of removing the sulphur in diesel fuel. The processes used to remove sulphur during refining, also have the effect of drastically reducing the amount of parafins (wax) present. It was these waxes that were providing the extra lubricity in the pre ULSD days. Sulphur is taboo in fuel oils now because of SO2 emissions-the same reason coal fired power plants are under such scrutiny.
On another note. I would like to see some testing regarding the use of ATF as an additive. My old J-code seems to love it-it runs better, with much less injector noise that with anything else. Two-stroke oil seems to have much the same effect.
Joined
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874 Posts
I add Stanadyne Performance and Stanadyne Lubricity Formula's to the Jet A I use. 42k miles and no problems and one injector is at 2.6. Almost all I run is Jet A. Met another guy on here that was at 72k on a LLY and nothing but Jet run in it with no problems.
Why do you run Jet A fuel?
Joined
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874 Posts
I get it for free. It is also as clean as it gets.
I would add about 2 gallons of B100 (biodiesel) per tank to put the lubrication in the fuel. Can't beat the price you're getting it for...
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