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Thanks for sharing your experience concerning deleting an under warranty truck and the fact that GM then questioned whether they should make a repair to that truck or not.

Perhaps GM should just repair them all no matter what was done to them previously.

And if you are not a dude then are you a dudette? Sorry that was a lob to the plate.
 

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I wish mine was that good. About 7000 is all i get out of a tank.
It is ridiculous that 3 different dealers couldnt diagnose the issue. Ive been turned away by a friend that worked at a GM dealer before due to the fact that they did not have a decent diesel tech. They should have designated qualified dealerships as we all know that theyre not all created equal.
Let us know whats decided...im curious to see how lenient GM actually will be.
7000 per tank of def should work iut in the same range I was calculating.

Not sure what mileage you're averaging, but
7000miles/16 mpg requires 438 gallons of fuel
At 1.25 gal def per 100 gal of fuel gives 4.38 x 1.25 = 5.475 gallons of def --about 1 tankful, so yours is in the same range.


for sure, dealers and techs are not all created equal.
Unfortunately, it probably even makes a difference what wording the 'service advisor' uses on the work order.
 

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Sorry if I came across like a prick RED, that was not my intention but re-reading it again I get the point of your question, I was just shocked by some other responses which I shouldnt be shocked about :thumbsdow

As for the original issue, it was ful. I checked it a few times and was actually at the dealership watching and talking about the truck during PDI so I know it was full but needless to say it was hammering through def, and I was quick on the trigger to eliminate the problem. hindsight if this thing goes south (which im anticipating) is I should have just buttoned down but... it is what it is.

Many debate about mileage etc, my truck deleted seemed to get fantastic mileage, no big tires etc and my mileage towing every day was around 17 towing and 22-23 on the freeway unloaded. I cant remember every getting near that before the delete but, again not solely why I made the change.

For 64k miles its been fine since the delete at 10k or so. And even still aside from drinking coolant every 3rd week or so it has never ran a tick over 210, smoked or shown any of the issues common with a head gasket.

Im as equally upset at the fact that they missed it 3 weeks ago and I have beat on it since then. They diagnosed it originally with a faulty surge tank, which now has proven isnt the case.

2 days after the repair it again flashed low coolant, the dealer checked it and assured me that it was just an air in the system. 3 week later, low coolant again.

It seems to just have issues on long hauls or when im towing heavy.

The dealership said the pressure in the cooling system is skyrocketing under load...

At this point I have no idea whats happening really other then the half ass assurance I get that this is what they think it is...
Hey, no sweat. My questions kind of ignore your current problem.

Hopefully they will get it corrected for you and you'll have it back on the road.

I suspect your not going to win the warranty battle.
 

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I'm following this just to learn what final outcome is. IMHO, which doesn't mean **** to GM, your issue is totally unrelated to the delete done and should be covered under warranty. I'm guessing the final result is the opposite though.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
 

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You may win the argument if you can prove that the ECM programming that you have done, did not change the power mapping in the ECM. Proving that may end up costing more than a new truck, let alone just the head gasket. And when you create a fuss about your current truck, does it become marked for life and UN-saleable?

Commented and wanting to follow this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
You may win the argument if you can prove that the ECM programming that you have done, did not change the power mapping in the ECM. Proving that may end up costing more than a new truck, let alone just the head gasket. And when you create a fuss about your current truck, does it become marked for life and UN-saleable?

Commented and wanting to follow this thread.
Well turn I agree with most everything you have said.

I am not expecting much but I most definitely want to have a dialogue with gm if I am given the opportunity. I have a meeting scheduled with my guy inside who handles all of the ordering in relation to what im doing with it if they dont cover it. I have a moral issue giving back a broken truck to the dealer knowing full well what is possibly wrong with it. I just cant burn my friend even thought it would mean me getting burnt in the end game.

Again, I have never expected much but I think GM would be silly not to atleast look at it. Not every scenario is the same but regardless ill understand.

IF they truly take a look, as simple as reading the current loaded flash they will see that the one and only calibration has been there all along. I didnt re flash it back to stock before I took it in, I have nothing to hide. One total reflash in the counter its entire life. This wont be rocket science to realize, but its an out if they want it, and again one I will accept the outcome on. Hell I lll gladly send them the what was flashed in if they want, no problem. Again absolutely nothing to hide. Not one engine mapping change was made.

Its cool to see some that are interested, I for one thought that maybe some would be curious about the end result. This isnt about trying to get someone to foot the bill, if you think it is you are missing the point entirely. Im curious to what GM thinks about standing behind their product.

Some trucks just have things come up, they can choose to look at the big picture and deem that what I did has no bearing (spirit of the law) or they can take shelter behind my un related flash and say I caused the problem of which isnt the case.

Perfectly fine with either result.....

I think its unrealistic to just roll over on something that will be completely unrelated. Most people who tune there trucks change engine mapping... prob in the 99% range. I wasnt one but I am ok with knowing I might have to be grouped into that crowd.

Will they take a look, have an open dialogue? Not sure. Would be cool if they did though.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I'm following this just to learn what final outcome is. IMHO, which doesn't mean **** to GM, your issue is totally unrelated to the delete done and should be covered under warranty. I'm guessing the final result is the opposite though.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
I went in expecting the same unfortunately..... :/
 

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I would have it fixed by a competent shop with studs and NOT the cheap LML gaskets. Also don't cut corners. Skim cut the heads for a clean, fresh surface.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Any updates?

Hopefully you have some good news.
Nothing yet, was at the dealer this morning in regards to a plan B. Had a great conversation with the tech and all the guys inside who are nothing short of fantastic people. Everyone has a vastly different opinion then what I expected in the sense that they all feel that this is a no brainer warranty fix that GM needs to cover and it sounds as though they will be going to bat as they asked me for the .tun file etc which I gladly gave them. Gm has not responded but if and when they do it will be a short process. Either they will fix it or its going back in as a trade in which the dealer has no problem taking really good care of me in regards to giving me what the market value is blown head gasket/warranty block or not. SO... the wait goes on, hopefully not much longer.

As soon as I hear something Ill be sure to let everyone know as it seems a ton of people are interested and rightfully so.

I also spoke to some well versed people within the industry who cant even believe that this truck puked a head gasket, some arguing that trucks with big power adds have stayed in tact under much worse conditions. While I agree, I would be lying if I said I didnt understand GM's position on this. They dont want to burn engineer time checking in depth into tunes when people have issues warranty wise, much easier to just look at face value, deem an alteration has taken place and void the claim on the spot. I get it, truly do.

As to whats going to happen... I am fully anticipating GM denying the claim but I wouldnt be surprised if they wanted to cover it either. Regardless, my dealer will make sure im squared away so the stress level has definitely tapered down...

Ill report back when I hear more.
 

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One thing people are overlooking, the Magnuson Warranty act the dealer has to prove the tune is what caused the failure.
This is not directed at you Jon, just want to share my experiences with attempting on using the Magnuson Act.

I tried that with my first Dodge diesel due to an intake being installed. (I was dumb enough to purchase two) The first voided warranty was due to an aftermarket intake, so they voided my turbo warranty and it was questionable on the motor since Cummins came out with a bulletin about aftermarket intakes and "dusting the motor." The second time on this particular truck I had a valve lash tick in the motor. The valves were supposed to be adjusted at 100-150k miles. I had 42k miles. The dealership tried to say it was due to extensive idle times and my injectors were severely coked up (which is bullshit, the truck was used for pulling only, never was it idled more than 5 min after a hard tow, additives were used on every tank). They wanted to do a fuel system cleaning for 400.00 at my cost. I told them to pound sand up there ass and adjust the valve lash. At this point, I could have done the job 4 times by myelf. Hind sight 20/20, I would have. I received the truck back, they said the valves were adjusted and what do you know, the tick was gone. Amazing. I drove out of the dealership and got about 1/8th miles and something let go inside of the motor. I had it towed back and they had it for 3-4 weeks. Never could fix it and I ended up towing it up to my good friends diesel shop in Denver where he fixed the problem in 40 min. He informed me the rocker bridge on cylinder number 5 was not tightened down and a push tube was bent. The truck had compression locked several times, so he said a head gasket would probably be in order in 5k miles or so. 3500 miles later he was right and Dodge wouldn't do **** about it, said it wasn't their problem and I was hot rodding the truck. Warranty denied. So I became an unwanted diesel tech. Pulled my own head, had .007 milled off the head to make it true again (you can only mill .013 max), bottom tapped my block and installed ARP studs, used a marine HG, and put it all back together. While the head was off and warranty was gone, did a few mods with the head, 3 piece exhaust manifold that was port matched, new 62/68/12 turbo (should have went with the 13cm housing) and some 50hp SAC nozzles. After all that was done, truck was amazing!!

So before all this work was done, they laughed, wiped their asses with the sheet of paper, and said "see you in court." I called around for a lawyers and quickly found out that I would be spending more than what the repair was to fix...and probably any future repairs, and the judges usually side with the auto industry anyway.

One of the many reasons the Rams were not even considered in this go around for a 1 ton tow rig.

This was just my experience with pulling the Magnuson Act out of my glovebox.

This act is good for if the OP tuned his truck and the power widows stopped working and warranty was denied due to tuning the ECM. The dealership would have to prove that an engine tune damaged the power window motor.

Nothing against the OP, and I have been there a couple times with mods and warranty...trust me. Head gaskets and engine tuning (even if power was not increased) would be an easy kill for GM. This thread has helped me out a lot on the tuning bug. It is an addiction for me, but not this time. If 397HP/765TQ can't pull my 8500-14000 lbs in the Colorado mountains, I'm doing something wrong. I enjoyed building diesels and seeing how amazing they truely are, but if I plan on that again, I will purchase a pre-emissions required truck and go have fun. My truck also is not a daily driver. So that helps. If I have an issue, and it sits at the dealership, this will suck, but won't bother me a whole lot.

On the flip side, if I were in the OPs position, this truck would have been taken to a shop, repaired and upgraded and not worried about it again for a long time. Time is money in his business, and a truck sitting is a huge expense. Having DEF issues and what not, I probably would have done the same tuning he did.
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
This is not directed at you Jon, just want to share my experiences with attempting on using the Magnuson Act.

I tried that with my first Dodge diesel due to an intake being installed. (I was dumb enough to purchase two) The first voided warranty was due to an aftermarket intake, so they voided my turbo warranty and it was questionable on the motor since Cummins came out with a bulletin about aftermarket intakes and "dusting the motor." The second time on this particular truck I had a valve lash tick in the motor. The valves were supposed to be adjusted at 100-150k miles. I had 42k miles. The dealership tried to say it was due to extensive idle times and my injectors were severely coked up (which is bullshit, the truck was used for pulling only, never was it idled more than 5 min after a hard tow, additives were used on every tank). They wanted to do a fuel system cleaning for 400.00 at my cost. I told them to pound sand up there ass and adjust the valve lash. At this point, I could have done the job 4 times by myelf. Hind sight 20/20, I would have. I received the truck back, they said the valves were adjusted and what do you know, the tick was gone. Amazing. I drove out of the dealership and got about 1/8th miles and something let go inside of the motor. I had it towed back and they had it for 3-4 weeks. Never could fix it and I ended up towing it up to my good friends diesel shop in Denver where he fixed the problem in 40 min. He informed me the rocker bridge on cylinder number 5 was not tightened down and a push tube was bent. The truck had compression locked several times, so he said a head gasket would probably be in order in 5k miles or so. 3500 miles later he was right and Dodge wouldn't do **** about it, said it wasn't their problem and I was hot rodding the truck. Warranty denied. So I became an unwanted diesel tech. Pulled my own head, had .007 milled off the head to make it true again (you can only mill .013 max), bottom tapped my block and installed ARP studs, used a marine HG, and put it all back together. While the head was off and warranty was gone, did a few mods with the head, 3 piece exhaust manifold that was port matched, new 62/68/12 turbo (should have went with the 13cm housing) and some 50hp SAC nozzles. After all that was done, truck was amazing!!

So before all this work was done, they laughed, wiped their asses with the sheet of paper, and said "see you in court." I called around for a lawyers and quickly found out that I would be spending more than what the repair was to fix...and probably any future repairs, and the judges usually side with the auto industry anyway.

One of the many reasons the Rams were not even considered in this go around for a 1 ton tow rig.

This was just my experience with pulling the Magnuson Act out of my glovebox.

This act is good for if the OP tuned his truck and the power widows stopped working and warranty was denied due to tuning the ECM. The dealership would have to prove that an engine tune damaged the power window motor.

Nothing against the OP, and I have been there a couple times with mods and warranty...trust me. Head gaskets and engine tuning (even if power was not increased) would be an easy kill for GM. This thread has helped me out a lot on the tuning bug. It is an addiction for me, but not this time. If 397HP/765TQ can't pull my 8500-14000 lbs in the Colorado mountains, I'm doing something wrong. I enjoyed building diesels and seeing how amazing they truely are, but if I plan on that again, I will purchase a pre-emissions required truck and go have fun. My truck also is not a daily driver. So that helps. If I have an issue, and it sits at the dealership, this will suck, but won't bother me a whole lot.

On the flip side, if I were in the OPs position, this truck would have been taken to a shop, repaired and upgraded and not worried about it again for a long time. Time is money in his business, and a truck sitting is a huge expense. Having DEF issues and what not, I probably would have done the same tuning he did.
Agree who heartedly but the unknowns that remain are where the problems still lie. Ive talked to several now today who dont believe for a second that it is solely a HG despite what the dealer is saying and that its mostly likely a much deeper issue, something cracked etc.

So, while I agree that taken it to a shop such as PPE or getting parts from Guy at Socal and trying to tackle it would have been easier on the wallet at face value the unknowns could make that an entirely different outcome.

The lingering uncertainty is what has strayed me from just biting the bullet.

This truck shouldnt have tossed a head gasket at 66k, and many who are more knowledgable then I are telling me to watch out for the unknown because the simple HG failure doesent make sense given the truck is stock, with some emissions off.

So, thats the root of my problem.

Getting rid of the headache could prove to be a much easier and simpler way out of a list of potential issues if GM decides to wash their hands. However, if they decide to cover, then I am solid for whatever might arise.
 

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I think you are probably on the right track then. Seems the dealership treats you well. I have always had very positive experiences with GM. My 12' Corvette was always taken care of ASAP, before that I have not owned a GM since the late 90's. That truck never seen a dealership. Ran like a clock. Building a repore with the service department is never a bad thing. I will get my first two free oil changes, and then start my own service, but ocasion will go in for an oil change or fuel filter swap. Never hurts to do that.

Good luck, looks like your attitude is right and hopefully this ends well.

What might you think is cracked? Head?
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I think you are probably on the right track then. Seems the dealership treats you well. I have always had very positive experiences with GM. My 12' Corvette was always taken care of ASAP, before that I have not owned a GM since the late 90's. That truck never seen a dealership. Ran like a clock. Building a repore with the service department is never a bad thing. I will get my first two free oil changes, and then start my own service, but ocasion will go in for an oil change or fuel filter swap. Never hurts to do that.

Good luck, looks like your attitude is right and hopefully this ends well.

What might you think is cracked? Head?
That was a possibility mentioned from guys I know and trust, but I think right now its all a guess, the uncertain tone from the dealer in relation to the head gasket itself is alarming which is why I am sitting in the holding pattern.

Idealy they will get it all fixed, Ill order a 17 and it will get traded in at that time :bigglasse

The lesser of the two is they dont cover it and I have to get into a 16 now, which sucks a little given 17s are rolling.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Update*

Gm responded via email to the dealer. Surprisingly positive, meaning they didn't put a block on my warranty and instead asked that I now return the truck back to stock form before the the work is to be performed. I am happy that I didnt flash the truck back to the factory settings before going through this.. as It appears to have helped my case.

Gm also asked that after I return it to stock, I kindly leave it that way if I would like to keep the truck off the warranty block list.

I would imagine that they checked the torque readings of which they will still show being within the factory limits.

Ill let everyone know what is happening as soon as I get more info. Going to flash it back tomorrow and install the def back in the morning.

On a side note, I got a different story from the tech working on my truck this morning. While he thinks it has to be a head gasket, he echoed that it could be a cracked head. So im still scratching my head as to why they cant diagnose what exactly is wrong with it... wouldnt diagnostics be able to deliver the issue and if a head gasket at least the side?

This whole wild goose chase is what I was remotely worried about in the beginning.

Ill know more tomorrow or Thurs..
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Well that is some great news!!

Now what are you going to do about the DEF issues you were having? Just deal with it as they come up?
At this point, obviously I am hamstrung until It gets correctly diagnosed and fixed whatever it is. Given that it has been 2 years I wouldnt be surprised if they figure it out and fix it when it comes up after they get everything back together.

As for if it has more issues DEF wise, well as soon as this thing is green lit for sure and the truck is being broken down, i will order a 17. Either way its going back at this point it looks like.
 
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