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Discussion Starter #1
Its been a while since I have been on so to all who remember me HELLO, and sorry for the absence for so long been busy.

Well I am about to go to battle with GM or attempt to so I figured this was worth sharing..

My 15 has run pretty well all of its life.. I tow everyday etc. About 10k miles in I was burning through def at an alarming rate with no help from any of the three dealers I went to. After much debate I decided to reach out to some friends and do a delete, no engine parameter/ engine power making changes I wanted a STOCK tune with some things shut down.

Fast forward to 66k miles...

Truck gets a low coolant light, add coolant all is good for a few days until I get it again. Take the truck in and they tell me that the truck has leaky coolant tank/bad seal and the fix is a tank replacement which isnt covered... ok. Done.

5 days later low coolant light again..... leave at dealer for 5 days of which they have no answer.

Today I get a call... "Jason it looks like its a headgasket, so we went a head and took a snap shot of the ecu and sent it to gm at their request" "They have responded saying that the ecu shows a flash calibration and that the request for repair is under review"

I end the call by saying I get it, attempting to explain that the motor has not been tuned to make more power but stop half way through realizing what im saying and who im saying it too...... this isnt going anywhere at the moment.

I understand you have to pay to play, and if I had tuned the truck to make power in any way shape or form I would understand, I guess im just having a hard time with this one. I have tuned other trucks, made big big power and never had an issue understanding full well that if I did it was on me.

This one with only the shut down of certain components is hard for me to just surrender knowing full well this has nothing to do with what I have done.

Being a long customer of GM and referring/purchasing over 5 trucks a year I will sit patiently and hope that the tech that GM uses to sniff out potential violators will also shed light in the form of the changes not being at all related to the issues at hand.

Its been flashed once, counted once. I never once thought of going back to the stock tune or trying to circumvent the system because I would hope that GM would be able to see what changes were made if it were ever a problem and make the decision accordingly.

Here is to remaining hopeful and for a guinea pig for those who have thought or pondered making certain changes to their trucks.

Sincerly,

Jason
 

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About 10k miles in I was burning through def at an alarming rate with no help from any of the three dealers I went to.
How much DEF is 'at an alarming rate'?

(and what kind of fuel mpg)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I dont know how this is at all relevant but Ill play along,

it was nearly double to that of my 2012....... as for mileage 12-13 but again no idea how that is remotely relevant.
 

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I dont know how this is at all relevant but Ill play along,

it was nearly double to that of my 2012....... as for mileage 12-13 but again no idea how that is remotely relevant.
I can't speak for him but, I had the same question and while it is now water under the bridge, I was wondering why you did not go to battle with GM over the DEF issue rather than do a reprogram that would/might nullify the warranty.

Understand, I am not faulting or pointing fingers just saying that, that was the question that ran through my mind when I read the first few lines. Right or wrong, the delete made it very easy for GM to give you the brush off where going to battle over the DEF issues in the beginning would have put them on the spot.

Since this is ongoing, your concerns may be for nothing so it is a wait and see.
 

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GM and Ford are pretty specific non ecm tune likely will void power train warranty. Our son's ford 2015 work truck has a big sticker on the radiator cross member on his gasser with a warning of tuning voiding power train warranty.

And, as long as the mfg states warranty exclusions they are well within their legal rights to do so. IIRC GM puts their statement in the duramax suppliment book.

And for a GM dealer to get reimbursed for certain warranty work, they often are required to submit ECM data to GM for approval. If GM denies then the dealer is on the hook for the costs. Even restoring factory tunes will leave a tattle tale marker that shows a non ECM was installed at some time.

so, it will be interesting to see how the dealer and GM handle this under warranty or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I can't speak for him but, I had the same question and while it is now water under the bridge, I was wondering why you did not go to battle with GM over the DEF issue rather than do a reprogram that would/might nullify the warranty.

Understand, I am not faulting or pointing fingers just saying that, that was the question that ran through my mind when I read the first few lines. Right or wrong, the delete made it very easy for GM to give you the brush off where going to battle over the DEF issues in the beginning would have put them on the spot.

Since this is ongoing, your concerns may be for nothing so it is a wait and see.
The Monday morning quarterbacking on here is pretty awesome.... makes me realize why I probably took a brief hiatus.

As for why I didnt push for the DEF issue early on... it boils down to one issue really, and it relates back to by 2012 that cost me 18 days of not having a truck of which the end fix for excessive DEF use was the dealer flashing it and putting an emissions exempt sticker. Yeah I was one of those...so excuse my rather quick trigger when it came to having yet another issue.

I run a business and need my truck every day to tow heavy equipment. Any day without it is a double hit, this isnt my luxury tow vehicle that sits in the driveway. SO... with that being said after the 10 days or so between 3 dealers it became a cost debate... spend more time with wild fixes on a system that can be buggy without a real fix or delete it and not worry about the issue without turning up anything power wise. Should run for years right? **** atleast get me to 100k dont ya think? Hell, all we did was shut down some components, didnt even touch the dead pedal issue because I didnt want to change anything tune wise.

I wont get into what the point of this post was but I can assure you that it wasnt to have some chip in with "You tuned it your warranty is done" but I guess you get a trophy for participation.

Im aware of the essential letter of the law here, It was more to keep people updated on how GM might handle a situation where the engine tuning was left alone, aside from some emissions changes.

Here is to hoping that GM can see the torgue values, or get in depth into the ECM readout and realize that nothing was done that could have remotely caused the failure.

I never once said I expected them to do anything. Im merely hoping that they can see past the letter of the law here and side more with the spirit realizing im not the average TURN UP THE POWER case that caused the issue. Those parameters have been un changed and the counter that they follow will show only 1 flash total... meaning what I did is whats in there now, nothing else.

Here is to hoping they might be flexible here....
 

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Is the truck fixed now? Or is it sitting while you battle? I would just get the head gaskets done and add in the arp head studs. Get it done and get it back to work. I don't think you will have much luck fighting them on it vs getting your truck up and back to work. Yes it is shouldn't have happened but it did. Get it fixed by a aftermarket shop that knows these engines and make sure it doesn't happen again with the stud kit. JMO.
 

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Dude, you brought it up so you have to expect a response.

I dont know how this is at all relevant but Ill play along,
And as to this web site. I have found it to be very helpful. Many times solving issues that I have had but your original post was not a request for help it was venting, which is fine we all do it but do not expect that someone here will let it go by without bringing the poster to reality. The reality is if you tune your truck and it is still in warranty, it might be that GM will not help you.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Is the truck fixed now? Or is it sitting while you battle? I would just get the head gaskets done and add in the arp head studs. Get it done and get it back to work. I don't think you will have much luck fighting them on it vs getting your truck up and back to work. Yes it is shouldn't have happened but it did. Get it fixed by a aftermarket shop that knows these engines and make sure it doesn't happen again with the stud kit. JMO.
Not a chance im fixing it thats for sure. Given that it will then be on the black list if this is how it goes down and also that its been trouble since I owned it, back in it will go on trade.

Not very smart financially with a truck this new with these problems to try and roll it out the length with absolutely no support.

Had it not been a head gasket I would agree with you totally.

I just fount out last night, its sitting until GM responds monday. It will either be fixed or go back in on trade.

Its a weird gasket issue that took them 8 days to diagnose, apparently so. Its been done for weeks now with lots of heavy towes in between given that the initial tank issue wasnt one.. Its been a gasket the entire time is what they are saying.
 

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After what happened with my last diesel I wouldn't even think of changing anything until warranty is over. As for running a business hauling it is pretty tough to do without a back up truck. I have worked on the bigger trucks for dealers and fleet shops and if someone is depending on one truck only these days you must look at other options. Down time has killed many businesses and to be smart you need a back up. You'd think that by buying a new truck you shouldn't need one but you do. Hopefully they fix it for you but if your business runs like you say you better bite the bullet and get it fixed either way or get into another truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Dude, you brought it up so you have to expect a response.



And as to this web site. I have found it to be very helpful. Many times solving issues that I have had but your original post was not a request for help it was venting, which is fine we all do it but do not expect that someone here will let it go by without bringing the poster to reality. The reality is if you tune your truck and it is still in warranty, it might be that GM will not help you.
Im not a dude,

You must not have read the post in its entirety. I fully accept whatever the outcome is as hard as it will be to get behind, half way into my post I spelled it out.

This wasnt about venting, it was about letting people know I will be the guinea pig for this type of situation.

To my knowledge I dont know of another situation like this that has happened here.... No tuning in relation to engine making power.

As for the comment you quoted.......

That was in regards to someone asking about the amount of DEF fluid being burned any my MPG I guess at that point.... Again ill say "HOW IN THE HELL IS THAT RELEVANT?"

The DEF system has been gone for a while, has no barring on whats happening now.

The point of my post was.... oh nevermind.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
After what happened with my last diesel I wouldn't even think of changing anything until warranty is over. As for running a business hauling it is pretty tough to do without a back up truck. I have worked on the bigger trucks for dealers and fleet shops and if someone is depending on one truck only these days you must look at other options. Down time has killed many businesses and to be smart you need a back up. You'd think that by buying a new truck you shouldn't need one but you do. Hopefully they fix it for you but if your business runs like you say you better bite the bullet and get it fixed either way or get into another truck.
Thanks
 

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Not posting this to stir pot, I'll have to peruse the 1000's of pages on the EPA site and if my memory serves me correctly it is the EPA that forces manufacturers to void the engine warranty if changes are made to the ECM by anyone other than GM or approved by GM done by the dealer. Bottom line the truck is no longer emissions compliant and you know the outcome...:coffee:
 

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I dont know how this is at all relevant but Ill play along,

it was nearly double to that of my 2012....... as for mileage 12-13 but again no idea how that is remotely relevant.
There are many reasons trucks get deleted. It was simple curiosity in my part -- since the stated reason for deleting (and voiding warranty) was excessive def over 10,000 miles (and you still didn't say how much that was).

LOTS of these trucks are delivered without the def tank filled, so early def usage sometimes appears to be higher that it is.


Using GM's indicated def usage is about 1.25% of fuel, the truck would have used about 10,000 mi/13mpg = 770 gal of fuel, so likely about 9.6 gallons of def. (770 x 0.0125)

If they delivered it low (or empty) it would have been about due for its 3rd 5 gallons fill.

Deletion/programming isn't cheap either, I was simply trying to understand the economics.
 

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There are many reasons trucks get deleted. It was simple curiosity in my part -- since the stated reason for deleting (and voiding warranty) was excessive def over 10,000 miles (and you still didn't say how much that was).

LOTS of these trucks are delivered without the def tank filled, so early def usage sometimes appears to be higher that it is.


Using GM's indicated def usage is about 1.25% of fuel, the truck would have used about 10,000 mi/13mpg = 770 gal of fuel, so likely about 9.6 gallons of def. (770 x 0.0125)

If they delivered it low (or empty) it would have been about due for its 3rd 5 gallons fill.

Deletion/programming isn't cheap either, I was simply trying to understand the economics.
I wish mine was that good. About 7000 is all i get out of a tank.
It is ridiculous that 3 different dealers couldnt diagnose the issue. Ive been turned away by a friend that worked at a GM dealer before due to the fact that they did not have a decent diesel tech. They should have designated qualified dealerships as we all know that theyre not all created equal.
Let us know whats decided...im curious to see how lenient GM actually will be.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
There are many reasons trucks get deleted. It was simple curiosity in my part -- since the stated reason for deleting (and voiding warranty) was excessive def over 10,000 miles (and you still didn't say how much that was).

LOTS of these trucks are delivered without the def tank filled, so early def usage sometimes appears to be higher that it is.


Using GM's indicated def usage is about 1.25% of fuel, the truck would have used about 10,000 mi/13mpg = 770 gal of fuel, so likely about 9.6 gallons of def. (770 x 0.0125)

If they delivered it low (or empty) it would have been about due for its 3rd 5 gallons fill.

Deletion/programming isn't cheap either, I was simply trying to understand the economics.
Sorry if I came across like a prick RED, that was not my intention but re-reading it again I get the point of your question, I was just shocked by some other responses which I shouldnt be shocked about :thumbsdow

As for the original issue, it was ful. I checked it a few times and was actually at the dealership watching and talking about the truck during PDI so I know it was full but needless to say it was hammering through def, and I was quick on the trigger to eliminate the problem. hindsight if this thing goes south (which im anticipating) is I should have just buttoned down but... it is what it is.

Many debate about mileage etc, my truck deleted seemed to get fantastic mileage, no big tires etc and my mileage towing every day was around 17 towing and 22-23 on the freeway unloaded. I cant remember every getting near that before the delete but, again not solely why I made the change.

For 64k miles its been fine since the delete at 10k or so. And even still aside from drinking coolant every 3rd week or so it has never ran a tick over 210, smoked or shown any of the issues common with a head gasket.

Im as equally upset at the fact that they missed it 3 weeks ago and I have beat on it since then. They diagnosed it originally with a faulty surge tank, which now has proven isnt the case.

2 days after the repair it again flashed low coolant, the dealer checked it and assured me that it was just an air in the system. 3 week later, low coolant again.

It seems to just have issues on long hauls or when im towing heavy.

The dealership said the pressure in the cooling system is skyrocketing under load...

At this point I have no idea whats happening really other then the half ass assurance I get that this is what they think it is...
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
but,dude that's so ''TOTALLY AWESOME'' you did that all for us
Do you feel better now?

Good grief.

The post was for members on the site absolutely, its what forums are for isnt it? Sharing experiences? Ill let this thread die, apparently the same guys still roam the threads. What a shame.
 
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