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¡ʎɹoʇs ɟo puǝ ¡ǝɯosʍɐ ɯI
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I hear alot of guys r leveling there front ends by putting more load on the trosion bars, What i was wondering is, r u guys that do that eating up tiers or r u getting good wear out of them.
 

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As long as you get the front end aligned you should see the same tire wear as before you cranked it up.
 

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¡ʎɹoʇs ɟo puǝ ¡ǝɯosʍɐ ɯI
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Discussion Starter #4
thats a good cheap way to go then, also how do u get your info to show bellow yor message. Thanks
 

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agreed, getting an alignment after cranking will give proper wear. you can add info by clicking on the user cp at the upper right corner of the page. and then signiture. can also build yourself a garage up with all the info!
 

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¡ʎɹoʇs ɟo puǝ ¡ǝɯosʍɐ ɯI
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Discussion Starter #6
i did the garage no pic yet tho, soon, but could not get the signiture. Thanks alot
 

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Cranking torsion bars doesnt "put more load"...simply reindexes them and the control arms in a differenct region of the operating range. Only way to "put more load" in them is to add weight and use them to maintain original height.
 

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mr_udy;1596628; said:
Cranking torsion bars doesnt "put more load"...simply reindexes them and the control arms in a differenct region of the operating range. Only way to "put more load" in them is to add weight and use them to maintain original height.


^^^ X 2



Nor-Cal Nick
 

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caswell;1597327; said:
however, you might eat pitman arms and ball joints by just turning up your torsion bars
Cognito leveling fixes the ball joint issue. Cognito Idler/Pitman arm helps with pitman/idler arms issues...even if your stock.
 

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mr_udy;1596628; said:
Cranking torsion bars doesnt "put more load"...simply reindexes them and the control arms in a differenct region of the operating range. Only way to "put more load" in them is to add weight and use them to maintain original height.
when you crank the bars ,arent you in other words twisting them? if you are i would think that would be "loading "them, much like when you lower your garage door you are loading the coil spring . when you crank the bars ,you load them and the result is the truck rises , and you get a stiffer ride. dont know if i'm right or not but it makes sense to me .
 

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When cranking the bars, your just rotating the bars. The amount of twist in the bars remain the same unless you add more weight to the front end.

When lowering your garage door, as each panel come down into a vertical position your consistently adding more weight.
 

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Theoretically, I guess you do need to "load" t-bars minutely (you wont notice it...and could only measure it with a strain gage glued to t-bar) more in an amount only to overcome the static load at current ride height (While actually cranking)...you then begin to rise and no more increase in load. The static (resting) load or "twist" will then be the same as it was before because you have not changed the relationship of one end of the bar to the other. When you crank, you are re-indexing the key at one end, and the a-arm at the other end at an equal angle (ex: rotate key 10°, a-arm rotates 10°). You gain additional ride height (inches) to that of the torsion bar adjuster screw length cause the a-arms act as a lever. Key only a few inches long. A-arm probably 12" long? (ex. turn wrench 45°, 1" from end closest to bolt only displaced say 1/2" but opposite end where your hand is moved like 5". Not exact numbers, I dont have a trigonometry calculator with me...just an example).

The torsion bars only "twist" when going over bumps or when you add additional weight like a plow or brush gaurd.

Garage door torsion spring is similar to vehicle torsion bar in the fact that it is a "torsion acting spring" and it stores energy to assist with lifting of the very heavy door much like a torsion bar opperates when defelecting bumps on a vehicle. In both cases (lifting door or suspension absorbing bump) one end is fixed and the other "wides up" due to the load. This is NOT the same action as cranking t-bars where both ends move.

However, When you are physically in the process of "cranking t-bars" your really "cranking" a screw that re-indexes a lever (Key) that then re-indexes torsion bar. The a-arm moves in the same amount of angle. No change in relative position (twist of bar) between a-arm and key. This is
very different from lifting a garage door cause one end is fixed as other rotates.

A difference in the door spring and torsion bar spring is the garage door uses an very long, thin "wire" that is then "coiled". The whole length of coil resists "twist" due to the individual wires resistance to "bend". BUT, If we look at the entire coiled door spring as a torsion bar, this would be more synonomous to if you were to set wind up (preload) of your door spring such that it balances the weight of the door partially open in an overly large verticle opening where lifting load would be constant (actual doors typically fold over horizontally and load is supported by track, not so much the spring) just as the engineer chose your trucks torsion bar to "balance" the weight of truck in a nuetral position. Now, if you could rotate the opposite, fixed end of each-fixed end of mount above door, and key on truck (dont know how you would do this with a door and I dont recoment trying!), both springs will "wind up" until the opposite end begins to move equally-This is the static load I mention in begining of response. Much more noticeable with door spring due to spring rate. No further "wind up" will occur unless you hit an imobile object or add weight. If you stop turning before either is artificially limited, the other end will stop moving after energy balances itself again (door a bit heigher, truck a bit heigher). Garage spring wind up will relax to where it started. Torsion bar too. Same load at rest...dont you wish you paid more attetion in Physics class? Me too...took me over 2hrs to write this!
 

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I have not had any problems after cranking and an alignment. I turned them up so the front sits 1" lower than the rear, got my alignment done ($37 w/ 6 month warranty) and thats it. I still have adjustment left on the bolts as well. Right now it makes the truck look worse, since I still have the stock training wheels, but that should be solved in the next couple of weeks. Pics in garage.

Jason
 

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mr_udy;1598743; said:
Theoretically, I guess you do need to "load" t-bars minutely (you wont notice it...and could only measure it with a strain gage glued to t-bar) more in an amount only to overcome the static load at current ride height (While actually cranking)...you then begin to rise and no more increase in load. The static (resting) load or "twist" will then be the same as it was before because you have not changed the relationship of one end of the bar to the other. When you crank, you are re-indexing the key at one end, and the a-arm at the other end at an equal angle (ex: rotate key 10°, a-arm rotates 10°). You gain additional ride height (inches) to that of the torsion bar adjuster screw length cause the a-arms act as a lever. Key only a few inches long. A-arm probably 12" long? (ex. turn wrench 45°, 1" from end closest to bolt only displaced say 1/2" but opposite end where your hand is moved like 5". Not exact numbers, I dont have a trigonometry calculator with me...just an example).

The torsion bars only "twist" when going over bumps or when you add additional weight like a plow or brush gaurd.

Garage door torsion spring is similar to vehicle torsion bar in the fact that it is a "torsion acting spring" and it stores energy to assist with lifting of the very heavy door much like a torsion bar opperates when defelecting bumps on a vehicle. In both cases (lifting door or suspension absorbing bump) one end is fixed and the other "wides up" due to the load. This is NOT the same action as cranking t-bars where both ends move.

However, When you are physically in the process of "cranking t-bars" your really "cranking" a screw that re-indexes a lever (Key) that then re-indexes torsion bar. The a-arm moves in the same amount of angle. No change in relative position (twist of bar) between a-arm and key. This is
very different from lifting a garage door cause one end is fixed as other rotates.

A difference in the door spring and torsion bar spring is the garage door uses an very long, thin "wire" that is then "coiled". The whole length of coil resists "twist" due to the individual wires resistance to "bend". BUT, If we look at the entire coiled door spring as a torsion bar, this would be more synonomous to if you were to set wind up (preload) of your door spring such that it balances the weight of the door partially open in an overly large verticle opening where lifting load would be constant (actual doors typically fold over horizontally and load is supported by track, not so much the spring) just as the engineer chose your trucks torsion bar to "balance" the weight of truck in a nuetral position. Now, if you could rotate the opposite, fixed end of each-fixed end of mount above door, and key on truck (dont know how you would do this with a door and I dont recoment trying!), both springs will "wind up" until the opposite end begins to move equally-This is the static load I mention in begining of response. Much more noticeable with door spring due to spring rate. No further "wind up" will occur unless you hit an imobile object or add weight. If you stop turning before either is artificially limited, the other end will stop moving after energy balances itself again (door a bit heigher, truck a bit heigher). Garage spring wind up will relax to where it started. Torsion bar too. Same load at rest...dont you wish you paid more attetion in Physics class? Me too...took me over 2hrs to write this!
excellent explanation professor! lol , for some reason i thought that the bars were fixed on one end, thats what was confusing me , after reading your novel(ha ha ) it cleared it all up, thank you , mr udy !
 

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mine are torqued up and tires are wearing as they should, i did have mine aligned after torquing
 

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I think the best way is to put the new key ways in. It will ride beter. I have seen alot of pitman arms fail with the torsions cranked.. My 04 had them cranked and my 07 has the key ways and it rides nicer..I have heard alot of people talk about how bad the GM front ends are.. I think that is mostly because of people cranking the torsions way the heck up and putting the hugh tires on. the parts tend to wear down faster.. There are some better than factory front end parts from MOOG..
 

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Sorry to say but even with keys, your still cranking. New keys only allow you to crank more using the limitel thread travel of adjuster screw! Reason one felt better than the other probably more of a coincidence than anything.

Reasons for poor ride are shocks too short and hitting drop-out stops with a-arms.


rob1966;1604662; said:
I think the best way is to put the new key ways in. It will ride beter. I have seen alot of pitman arms fail with the torsions cranked.. My 04 had them cranked and my 07 has the key ways and it rides nicer..I have heard alot of people talk about how bad the GM front ends are.. I think that is mostly because of people cranking the torsions way the heck up and putting the hugh tires on. the parts tend to wear down faster.. There are some better than factory front end parts from MOOG..
 
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