[captainmal]

Mackin/TMG115,


The "lemon pictures" that are in ...'Picture this'... are really on the truck. GM also has copies of the pictures and I have personally disuaded many potential buyers from the Duramax as it is now configured.


Most Druamax buyers do not run their trucks much. My engine was excellant for 117,000 miles and at that point I did say it was the "best truck I ever had". Then it 'hit the fan'. I agree with those whose experiences are limited in mileage. It is a good truck. Just don't own it out of warranty.


Around the country I run into many. many drivers who will have the 100,000 mile warranty ended in less than a year. Then on you find out what the truck is really like. The Duramax IS a lemon.


My spending of almost $6,000 this year on fuel system repairs seems to be common for those of us who put some mileage on the truck. In addition to the money there is the issue of breakdowns on the road, lodging, towing, safety, time, fear, stress etc. All those issues contribute to the lemon picture.


There is also no reasonable way to fix the fuel problem. Adding all kinds of fuel filters does not fix the leaking fuel return rails, injector seats, and already worn injectors. Inner 'lifetime' gaskets cost about $100 and they are NOT lifetime. Labor is hours and hours at $50 to $80 per hour to just get to the injectors. Surrounding parts break from the stress of frequent removal and those have to be replaced. It goes on and there is NO easy solution. Thanks to DMAXALLTECH it can be made more tolerable.


GM's 'official' stand after my discussions with them is ..."tough #.*t", done in a polite manner. They will not admit to a problem but the new engine coming out seems to address all of the problem issues they don't admit to.


For right now the way to go if you are going to use the truck a lot, is the new generation 3 Cummins with a manual transmission. Stay away from the 6.0 Ford and the Duramax if you use the truck enough to quickly move out of the warranty period.


Come May or June of next year I will have the new Duramax or a Cummins. One of you may want the lemons.

 

[Wickedsprint]

Just what i want to hear after buying a new truck

 

[hoot]

captainmal definately has reason to be negative towards GM and his truck.

That doesn't mean we will all be dumping big bucks or have lemons. I don't see alot of captainmal situations plastered all over and guess what...

If it was a biggy, it would be (all over the boards) cause the first thing everybody does when they have major problems is jump on the net. That's what the Ford boys are saying about the 6.0.

captainmal, I hope you have decent luck with your existing truck and get a perfect one the next time around no matter what brand you choose.

Keep GM on their toes. I see you haven't ruled out a 2004 Duramax so you have some faith.

I'm hitting 60,000 and so far real happy. Hopefully the additional fuel filtering will give me many more.Edited by: hoot

 

[tysmith]

I for one am a big believer in CLEAN FUEL. That said, I do NOT have any aftermarket fuel filters. I'll volunteer to be the guinea pig and see what happens. My '01 had 57k on it when I got rid of it, and the only problem I had was the brake booster and NSBU. I got it in Nov. '01, and got rid of it Jul. '03. I obviously don't drive crazy miles, but I put on a fair share, all of them hammer down.


Back to the fuel, I buy from 2 fuel stations. One in Maine, one at home. Large volume dealers with lots of fleet vehicles running through them. Never had a prob... I'm not going to finish that statement.


I'm very happy with my truck. GM makes great trucks, as do Ford and Dodge, all in their own rite. Lemons happen, and it's unfortunate that they do, especially after 100k, because the Lemon Law is pretty much moot at that point.


Here's to many thousands of trouble free miles, and the hope that captainmal can find it in his heart to give the Duramax another go round!

Ty

 

[gwmayes]

captainmal,


I was wondering if you had a build date for your truck? We've heard that there may have been an injector improvement halfway through the '01 model year? Also, I've heard they changed the way they seat the injectors in the head.


Those design changes we've heard about for late '04 that gets the fuel stuff out from under the valve covers sounds like a real good "tweak". Wish I would have held out for another year.


Sorry about your beta-testing experience. In defense of Chevy, it looks like their rollout was a bit smoother than the 6.0L F***.

 

[tmg115]

I am sorry to hear about your truck. it is sad how sh!t has to happen. but i have never really heard about this before and if it was a big problem it would be all over the boards as hoot has said. so i guess i will just have to wait and see.

 

[captainmal]

GWMAYS & TMG115,


Build date was April of '01. It was a later build but the injector changes supposidly came in the middle of '02.


This topic HAS been 'all over the board'. It just may have been the #1 topic on the boards for more than a year and the reason for all the extra fuel filtration issues so often discussed.


I have only met a couple of high mileage Duramax owners. Each of them has had multiple injector (read ...ALL) problems.


It is interesting how so many owners with problems have them fixed under warranty or just pay the huge repairs and don't complain much. It seems to me the attitude prevades that when a truck gets over 100,000 miles that's all you can expect. I say BULL...


Frequently I speak with people who have over 500,000 miles on their trucks. Fords and Dodges often have transmission failures and then there are lift pump failures, throttle position sensors and an occasional injector pump failure that comes up. That's it.


The Duramax is "defective by design" related to the fuel system. Simple as that.

 

[hoot]

You just can't win.

No matter who you go with, they have either an bad engine or a bad transmission.

What do you think is specifically wrong with the Dmax fuel injection system captain mal?

Are the ones with the new injectors having problems?

Do you think the new Cummins which uses almost the same system by Bosch is "defective by design" also?

 

[Camstyn]

Do you use any diesel treatment by any chance?


A bit off-topic, and I'm not pushing any brands, but you know the reputation the 6.5 diesel has for injector pumps.. We ran up well over 500,000 miles on a '97 GMC Savana cargo van with the 6.5TD before the original injector pump failed. Impossible? Maybe, we'll see. The '02 in my sig just rolled over 100,000 miles and I'm expecting it to go as far as the '97, it hasn't skipped a beat so far.


The only thing we do "out of the ordinary" is a small splash of Gunk's diesel treatment in every fillup. I fill it up every morning, and a bottle of the treatment usually lasts a month or so, to give you an idea of how much of the treatment I actually put in. Knock on wood, it's worked miracles for us. The dealership the '97 was bought at had never seen a 6.5 injector pump go past 135,000 miles before.


I don't rack up many miles on the duramax, I've only got 3000 on so far, bought about 6 weeks ago, but I'm giving it a splash of diesel treatment with every fill-up, at this rate I won't find out if it works for another 10 or so years, but if you're all still around I'll let you know.

 

[captainmal]

HOOT & CAMSTYN,


Here it goes. I DO use Howes fuel treatment. Pretty much did from the start. Man I should use Gunk.


Hoot - The Duramax fuel system is 'defective by design'. First the engine was designed by Izuza. I wonder what kind of fuel system they would have used if left alone?


GM must have had the input to design the Bosh system to be INSIDE the valve covers. They are sitting there waiting to leak fuel right into the oil....and they do.


They also have run the fuel return lines inside the covers and use plastic seals that really need to be replaced when injectors are changed as they must all come apart. Another stupid design issue.


The injectors fit into the heads with leak-prone seals that can contaminate the coolent system and often does. Another stupid design.


The whole system requires a "major' disassembly to service. It's major in the time required and the huge labor costs involved. Even the replacable inside (two piece valve covers another design defect) cover seals take a set after repeated removals and they tear.


I agree with some many others that Bosh did not make lasting injectors for the fuel cleanliness. Is that a Bosch design or GM specs? I hear the newer ones are better. We need time to tell.


What about the fuel filter? There are whole cottage industries popping up of smart, industrious people designing some kind of double filtering system to deal with getting a cleaner fuel into the injectors. The guys make money doing it as a response to helping with the injector problems. They also help ease the problem IF that is truly the cause. I praise people like Kennedy and the others for both doing it and making a buck in the process. But, if GM had designed a decent fuel filtration system all that stuff going on with filters might not have been.


I do not know if the newer Duramax's have injector problems. First , most owners do not have many miles on the trucks to even find out. I have yet to hear of anyone putting real high miles on one and not having injector issues. If there are, they sure keep quiet. I did try to buy a newer truck but two dealers literally did not want to give me squat for the old truck and GM REFUSED rebates to me.


Oh, the rebates.....? They are an incentive offered in only certain, targeted zip codes. I have had lots of discussions with GM.


DMAXALLITECH is the one to speak far more intelligently to all of these issues than me. I just know the troubles and how hard and expensive they are to deal with. Those frequent"limp mode" shutdowns are dangerous to me but another design in the system to protect things. I would rather have some missing to tell me there is a problem rather than an immediate shutdown as it's designed to do.


GM is addressing most if not all of these issues with the newer motor. To me it's an admission of defective design that had to be addressed. To me the durrent design of the fuel system is a ticking bomb of trouble. It's coming seems inevitable. The issue is just when. It's "defective by design" as currently made.


I do not know why the Bosch system on the Cummins works or how long it will work. Ask a tech. My neighbor has 60,000 on one of them right now and all is well. All was well for me at 60,000 also. It will take mileage to answer and that's something most people on the net do not have so they have not had to deal with the problems out of warranty.


That's my honest, experienced but not schooled, assessment. If my truck is still running when the new motor comes out I will try to trade for it or go Cummins. Right now I see little in the Duramax fuel system design to inspire confidence and do know it is a difficult, expensive design to repair.

 

[Wickedsprint]

Man, am sorry to hear this, but you are scarin the begeezus outa me...doh