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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What is wrong with General Motors? Is there anyone even at the helm over there? I hope this doesn't come across as a rant, because it's not. It's the truth, even if it's only according to me (but I don't think so) and it does belong here on this LBZ MOTORS forum.

I have, in my time, been blessed that I have been able to buy a new vehicle every few years. I had, until the year 2000, always bought American because that's the way I thought it should be. I was always proud of that. I was the biggest flag-waving American car fan there was. Believe me, I would love to say that they were all real high quality cars and trucks, but truthfully, I had major problems with almost all of them somewhere along the line, and it was usually because of bad quality or sloppy workmanship. I'm a guy who loves cars and I take care of them meticulously.

Being in car sales, I reluctantly started working for a Nissan dealership in 2000, and after talking to so many people who had gotten over 250,000 miles on their imports (mostly trouble-free), I finally arrived at the conclusion that they were better built cars and so I bought one. It was true. After putting 94,000 miles on my Nissan Maxima in a little over three years, trouble-free years I might add, I sold this car to my next door neighbor for top dollar, and he thanks me almost every day. That's something most people would never do because they have to live next to their neighbor.

I'm not telling you this to try to make everyone go out and buy a Nissan. My point is this: The import makers will develop an idea, test it extensively, and then - only when they're satisfied with the results, will they release the new car for sale to the general public.

Now let's fast forward to about 6 months ago. Although I'd had some great luck with the imports, and I was currently driving a new Volvo, there was always a part of me that still ached for an American car. Although my Volvo was a great car, when I saw the D-Max powered Silverado, my car just wasn't for me anymore, and believe me, I paid dearly to get out of it.

It seems the mentality of GM & the other U.S. automakers is this: let's come up with this great new idea, build it, and then we'll test it out on the public. You and I are actually the proving grounds for these idiots.

I'm a high school drop-out (and not proud of that, BTW), but I'm sure I can do a better job when it comes to quality control policy than whomever is doing it now. That may sound like a pretty bold statement, but I can back it up. Here's how: 1) I have been fairly blessed when it comes to common sense. 2) I'm a real car and truck enthusiast, and 3) Although I can't play the piano, I can tell whether or not you can.

I'm currently one of the owners who are experiencing glow plug problems to the extent of major engine disassembly, and sadly, it doesn't seem that I am alone. I would gladly be the only one with this problem if I could, but it is what it is. The only up side to this is that I've communicated with a lot of very nice people because of this who have been very supportive. I hope to continue talking to them, but under better circumstances. So-o-o-o-o:

Let's go, General. Stop using the buying public as your guinnea pigs. Test your product out, and if you see there is a major malfunction, come up with a Plan B. If that fixes it, then sell your product. If not, go back to the drawing board. No wonder Toyota is currently poised to become the biggest auto seller in the U.S.

When that happens, it will be a really sad day in the Campanello household...Carmine Campanello
 

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Carmine,
about what percentage of trucks are actually effected? I stopped down yesterday to say hi, but you were busy with a customer. Anyway the glow plugs are made by Bosch(German) , and the engine is Isuzu, which is (Japenese). I own a 100,000 dollar Freightliner with MBE900 diesel engine made by Mercedes that is a piece of S%it. I hate to say it but I believe it is more luck of the draw most of the time. Hopefully the dealer and Chevy will get on the ball and get your truck repaired correctly. I been having problems for about two years with the Freightliner and believe me I know it wears your patience thin. Hang in there worse come to worse you can go the lemon law, but I'm sure the dealership will step up .Dave
 

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Carmine... Carmine...

When that happens, it will be a really sad day in the Campanello household...Carmine
Carmine...

You've been "Dinked around with" for too long... Go to this website...


http://www.chevrolet.com/contactus/


and talk to someone... Other Than the dealer... You have been (almost) to patient... Let's see if "They" will help you...

Keep us posted... :exactly:

And I hope your old enough to remember (back when)...

"See the USA, in your Chevrolet" and "Keep the Faith"...

:lol:
 

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I just want to add my 2 cents. I work at a major American motorcycle manufacturer. When a new engine came out a few years ago there was an inherent problem which caused the engine to break and leave riders stranded. Not all of them, but a small percentage and it was just "the luck of the draw" on which ones. The odd thing is that these engines were tested on tracks and in dyno cells for a million miles (no, not all on the same engine) and this problem never came up. My point is that sometimes people affect machinery in ways that can not be simulated in a laboratory or test track. JMHO.
 

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Carmine,
about what percentage of trucks are actually effected? I stopped down yesterday to say hi, but you were busy with a customer. Anyway the glow plugs are made by Bosch(German) , and the engine is Isuzu, which is (Japenese).
The engine is actually built in Moraine,Ohio. Southside of Dayton. I now have 38,000 miles on mine with no probs, & it is run in all parts of the country. Glow pugs have never been on longer than 5 secs.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Carmine,
about what percentage of trucks are actually effected? I stopped down yesterday to say hi, but you were busy with a customer. Anyway the glow plugs are made by Bosch(German) , and the engine is Isuzu, which is (Japenese). I own a 100,000 dollar Freightliner with MBE900 diesel engine made by Mercedes that is a piece of S%it. I hate to say it but I believe it is more luck of the draw most of the time. Hopefully the dealer and Chevy will get on the ball and get your truck repaired correctly. I been having problems for about two years with the Freightliner and believe me I know it wears your patience thin. Hang in there worse come to worse you can go the lemon law, but I'm sure the dealership will step up .Dave
Hi, Dave. Thanks so much for coming down. I'm sorry I wasn't able to see you, but I did manage to make a sale to two nice ladies. It's funny, the receptionist said there was somebody to see me, but when I asked who it was, they said they didn't ask. I didn't have a clue. If you're ever in the area again, stop in - I'd like to meet you. Thanks again...Carmine
 

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Maybe GM should put the glowplugs on a 5 second timer!Really,this glowplug problem just should not be happening,no excuses this time around.This is probably worse than the injector fiasco in the LB7.Glad I did not trade up to the LBZ just yet,but frustrated for anyone that did.And I am sure someone will fire back that these are isolated incidences,how isolated are you?
 

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Well Dang it...Now I don't know what to do...I have never owned a pick up from any company. For the longest time, I had my eye on a Ford F350 PSD to pull our 5th wheel we have ordered.. 100% of my wifes family drives Fords, F250's and F-350's and all diesel and about seven trucks total. None of them have reported any problems. All of the trucks are from 04 to 06. Looks like they all good trucks.

Most everybody knows about the problems with the Ford PSD 6.0 engine as reported here on the net. I hung out at the Ford sites, read about the problems, and thought well I will check out the GM Duramax/Allision combo.

Now this crap starts up with the glow plug on the Duramax. I know even with the Duramax and the Fords, not all have these issues. But whatever truck I buy, it will be our only transportation and it will be a business truck also as the wife and I are full time music exhibitors and we do about 45 shows per year from coast to coast. My truck has to get me there plus pull our home behind it.

I'm not so much brand loyal as I am dependability loyal. I drove the Ford, liked it, drove the Chevy, loved it. Have not drove the Dodge and don't really want too, but I may have no choice.

I have been told the life blood of any truck is the motor. When ya gotta roll $45,000 plus dollars out for a vehicle, the dang truck needs to work.

I have just never been a gambler with my hard earned money. Ford and GM are making it darn tough for some of us guys who want a dependable truck. Dependabilty...is that to much to ask? Sorry for the rant:(
 

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Is this a GM problem or is it a Supplier problem that might of shipped them bad parts because of quality control problem's on the suppliers part ?

While I agree in the end it's a GM truck and the buck stop's with them when it comes to fixing it sometimes it is not always there fault.

Glow plugs have beed in Diesel's for many many years, why is this a problem NOW ?

If you put a glow plug on the bench and hook a battery to it, it sholud glow and get red hot but never melt, and they don't, people have tried.

Maybe the japs have better control over their suppliers or maybe they just do everything in house to avoid these type of problems in the first place, I don't know, but in the end sometimes sh!t happens. Of course everyone hates when it happens to them, me included.

DD

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I don't think GM is the only one that has had glow plug issues

About a year ago when I started considering buying a new truck to replace my 01 8.1 gasser and I was talking with a friend who is the owner of the parts store that I usually buy parts from and sometimes have his mechanic do repairs on my truck and I mentioned that I was starting to think about buying a new truck and wanted a diesel. He strongly recommended Chevy and was also considering a new Chevy truck. He said that based upon the number of glow plugs that he sold for Fords he didn't recommend Ford. I know that this is third hand, but as my freind sells parts I think that it is fairly reliable.

Just my $0.02. As others have said before most post to the forum because they have a problem and not because they don't have any problems. If you look at the glow plug poll results the percentage is low with problems. I am sorry that other the listers have the problems and hope I don't have it either.

I am curious if dealers followed the PIP if people would be having the problem. Is this something that is preventable?

Carmine hang in there.

I love my truck and wouldn't trade it in, but then I don't have the problem.
 

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glow plugs

I tried to call chev and got a lady who was nice but that is all, did not know a thing. My feeling is what kind of person would build a glow plug if the control mod. malfunctions and stays on longer than it should could cause the thing to melt. It should not get hot enough to melt if it stayed on all day. PERIOD.
I would disable mine if I though the computer would let me but what do I know. Heard they get to 1800 degrees and I think steel melts before that.
Then go to a dealer and see if he knows anything about it. I had to get the bulliton off this site to give to them so they could begin. Towed my truck in so not to start it because the lite would not go off and they said they were going to drive it in the bay. Where do they find some of these workers. I know there are a lot of good ones but the bad makes it so hard on the good. Sorry about the rant but like you I paid 40,000 plus and did not think something like this could be so :confused: ing.
Zank
 

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Glow plugs

Well you all probably don't want to hear this BUT... Glow plugs have always been a problem from the first 350 GM Diesel and the Ford/IH... First they used 12 volt Glow plugs... Took to long to heat up...:( Then they found they could use 6 volt glow plugs... heated up faster BUT problems started if they stuck on or were used a lot.

Then along came the LBZ.... With 4.7 volt glow plugs and you are seeing the result. Kinda like pluging your VCR into a 240 volt socket and expecting it to last.:eek:

How many industrial diesels or over the road trucks do you see that use glow plugs...???? Well I don't see too many... With Good compression and possibly a trouble free Grid heater Glow Plugs simply are Not Needed...

Most diesels start without them because they have a fairly high compression ratio which heats the air enough to ignite the fuel... BUT they lowered the Comp ratio on the LBZ. For whatever reason I don't know... Reading a previous post they have only from about 300 Min to about 360 pounds compression. I have heard of 350,000 + Mile Cummins with from 420 to 440 pounds compression.

I have 2 old Dodge / Cummins trucks with NO Glow Plugs and they start fine in Wisconsin winters...:) 160,000 on one and 195,000 on the other. From what I see lately they had better last me a long time as I'm too Old to sit Along Side the Road or in the Shop Broke down with a New Truck. Thanks for Listening....

Ken Majeski Ellsworth Wis Website; http://users.dishup.us/kenmajeski/index/
 

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nothin wrong with mine.......yet.....almost 600 miles on it and no problem with the glow plugs......so im hoping maybe i got a good one and it dosent melt down on me......-:t
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Carmine...

You've been "Dinked around with" for too long... Go to this website...


http://www.chevrolet.com/contactus/


and talk to someone... Other Than the dealer... You have been (almost) to patient... Let's see if "They" will help you...

Keep us posted....

And I hope your old enough to remember (back when)...

"See the USA, in your Chevrolet" and "Keep the Faith"...

:lol:
Hi, Kemosable. You're right. I have been dinked around with for too long, and thank you for giving me that website link. In the interest of store politics, I'm going to let them proceed as they have until this Thursday. The factory rep is supposed to come and look at my torn-down motor and let me know which direction they're going with this. Thursday is judgement day. They will have to give me something a little more concrete than what they have been giving me. Either tell me what the problem is, and that you can actually fix it right this time, or that you'll put another motor in.

If I can't have an answer by Thursday, then I'm going to pursue this a lot more agressively. I'll start pushing for a buyback. We still have a decent selection of LLY trucks available.

And yes, I am old enough to remember "See the USA in your Chevrolet". How about you - do you remember "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie & Chevrolet"? Those were the days.

I'll write some updates as they happen, and thanks for writing, pal...Carmine
 

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Is this a GM problem or is it a Supplier problem that might of shipped them bad parts because of quality control problem's on the suppliers part ?

While I agree in the end it's a GM truck and the buck stop's with them when it comes to fixing it sometimes it is not always there fault.

Glow plugs have beed in Diesel's for many many years, why is this a problem NOW ?

If you put a glow plug on the bench and hook a battery to it, it sholud glow and get red hot but never melt, and they don't, people have tried.

Maybe the japs have better control over their suppliers or maybe they just do everything in house to avoid these type of problems in the first place, I don't know, but in the end sometimes sh!t happens. Of course everyone hates when it happens to them, me included.

DD

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Even thuogh you start out with the right question, you end up leaning towards a supplier defect. Show me the proof it is a supplier problem. It may be an integrated design problem..
 

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hmm...

If this means anything I own an LBZ with about 5000 miles and no glow plug problems and also work at a shop where we service maybe 100 LBZs a month and I have NEVER heard of any glow plug problems. My .02 cents.
 

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This is from PIP3586A - (Dec 16, 2005)

"
Recommendation/Instructions:
Complete current SI diagnostics for any DTCs found.

At this time, engineering is involved with glow plug concerns and is requesting the steps below be completed if a glow plug concern is verified.

A loose connection on the Glow Plug Control Module (GPCM) ground, or the battery power feed cable may induce glow plug concerns. When the GPCM ground or battery feed circuit has a poor connection, the GPCM will sense a voltage fluctuation, and possibly induce the GPCM to power up the glow plugs. Untimed GPCM cycling may cause glow plug concerns."


I hate to say this but it sounds to me like they are not really sure what is causing this, but appears that they think it is a quality problem.:rolleyes:

I would think that they should have dealers inspect these connections during PDI on every truck and any time one comes in for service, to make sure that everything is OK and reduce the likelyhood of more damaged engines.

I am fortunate, I have not had any problems with my truck. I currently have 4,250 miles on it.
 

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What is wrong with General Motors? Is there anyone even at the helm over there? I hope this doesn't come across as a rant, because it's not. It's the truth, even if it's only according to me (but I don't think so) and it does belong here on this LBZ MOTORS forum.

I have, in my time, been blessed that I have been able to buy a new vehicle every few years. I had, until the year 2000, always bought American because that's the way I thought it should be. I was always proud of that. I was the biggest flag-waving American car fan there was. Believe me, I would love to say that they were all real high quality cars and trucks, but truthfully, I had major problems with almost all of them somewhere along the line, and it was usually because of bad quality or sloppy workmanship. I'm a guy who loves cars and I take care of them meticulously.

Being in car sales, I reluctantly started working for a Nissan dealership in 2000, and after talking to so many people who had gotten over 250,000 miles on their imports (mostly trouble-free), I finally arrived at the conclusion that they were better built cars and so I bought one. It was true. After putting 94,000 miles on my Nissan Maxima in a little over three years, trouble-free years I might add, I sold this car to my next door neighbor for top dollar, and he thanks me almost every day. That's something most people would never do because they have to live next to their neighbor.

I'm not telling you this to try to make everyone go out and buy a Nissan. My point is this: The import makers will develop an idea, test it extensively, and then - only when they're satisfied with the results, will they release the new car for sale to the general public.

Now let's fast forward to about 6 months ago. Although I'd had some great luck with the imports, and I was currently driving a new Volvo, there was always a part of me that still ached for an American car. Although my Volvo was a great car, when I saw the D-Max powered Silverado, my car just wasn't for me anymore, and believe me, I paid dearly to get out of it.

It seems the mentality of GM & the other U.S. automakers is this: let's come up with this great new idea, build it, and then we'll test it out on the public. You and I are actually the proving grounds for these idiots.

I'm a high school drop-out (and not proud of that, BTW), but I'm sure I can do a better job when it comes to quality control policy than whomever is doing it now. That may sound like a pretty bold statement, but I can back it up. Here's how: 1) I have been fairly blessed when it comes to common sense. 2) I'm a real car and truck enthusiast, and 3) Although I can't play the piano, I can tell whether or not you can.

I'm currently one of the owners who are experiencing glow plug problems to the extent of major engine disassembly, and sadly, it doesn't seem that I am alone. I would gladly be the only one with this problem if I could, but it is what it is. The only up side to this is that I've communicated with a lot of very nice people because of this who have been very supportive. I hope to continue talking to them, but under better circumstances. So-o-o-o-o:

Let's go, General. Stop using the buying public as your guinnea pigs. Test your product out, and if you see there is a major malfunction, come up with a Plan B. If that fixes it, then sell your product. If not, go back to the drawing board. No wonder Toyota is currently poised to become the biggest auto seller in the U.S.

When that happens, it will be a really sad day in the Campanello household...Carmine Campanello
I like the piano piece,I have to say i agree with you on that one..I went thru the same bull$hit with ford and dodge and now im hopeing this is my last truck for awhile!!I have had all three in 6 years so there you go,problems with all of them,well i'm giving my chevy a chance because right now i'm lovin the $hit out of this truck.

Sorry to hear of your misfourtune but i think there will always be promblems with all vehicle's.Some time you get a great one,like my 69 camaro :ro)

Nick Campanale
 

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Sorry, I am in a hurry and did not read the whole post, But there are OVER 30,000 members on this site and I think there are about 5 with glow plug problems and you can bet ALL 5 are complaining. Now there are probably about 95% of the duramax owners that don't even care or know about this site to be able to complain. SO I WILL SAY IT AGAIN. YOU are a very small percentage of the available truck owners. We're talking something like .00001%. If there was this major problem then there would be a recall or something like that. I am VERY sorry to hear about your problem and I would be devastated too if my truck had to be torn down etc.........But my new LBZ ir running fine with NO problems whatsoever. GREAT TRUCK.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Sorry, I am in a hurry and did not read the whole post, But there are OVER 30,000 members on this site and I think there are about 5 with glow plug problems and you can bet ALL 5 are complaining. Now there are probably about 95% of the duramax owners that don't even care or know about this site to be able to complain. SO I WILL SAY IT AGAIN. YOU are a very small percentage of the available truck owners. Were talking something like .00001%. If there was this major problem then there would be a recall or something like that. I am VERY sorry to hear about your problem and I would be devastated too if my truck had to be torn down etc.........But my new LBZ ir running fine with NO problems whatsoever. GREAT TRUCK.

Hi, drag. Thanks for writing and expressing your opinion. Your sincere compassion really pulls on my heartstrings. And good for you on your truck. I hope you didn't waste too much time reading this post, seeing as you're in such a hurry, etc......... It's amazing, in only two or three sentences, we can all see that you're a math wiz, too.

I'm glad you're loving your truck and have had NO problems whatsoever. And the fact that you feel you own a GREAT TRUCK is not lost on me, either. I happen to still love my truck, too.

Here's the thing: I'm on this website a short time also and I can't believe I've already written almost 80 posts. I realize not everyone has the time or the interest to read everything I write, but here's the deal, my friend -

If you've read my first post since my truck broke down, (my turn in the glow plug barrel) you'd see the enthusiastic approach I had taken. I was even praised for it by some, because I realized that out of all the D-Maxes made, that the number of glow plug problems were probably small by comparison. If you, by chance, have a whole bunch of extra time, follow that post as it grew and keeps on growing by the day. You might notice that as time went by, my attitude began to slowly change and I became more and more cynical. Sorry about that, but I can't help it.

There are plenty more than 5 people out there with glow plug problems, but even assuming that you are right, that would make it a quarter of a million dollars worth of expensive machinery that is down and not making the owners of them any money or taking them where they want or need to go. It's costing them time, money and a great deal of uncertainty and apprehensiveness. I'm to the point where it's taking more than a little schmoozing and a month's truck payment reimbursement by GM to make me happy.

My truck had already been diagnosed, disassembled, repaired (supposedly), and given back to me. It seems there has been a whole 'nother laundry list of things that have subsequently gone wrong with my engine since these repairs and no one seems to be able to tell me what the problem is and how they're going to go about fixing it.

My truck now sits disassembled again waiting for a rep to decide the future of my investment. I read somewhere on this site of a guy whose glow plugs messed up his engine so bad, they had to replace the motor. The second motor died in less than 125 miles. This lucky guy is waiting for his new truck that they're giving him. There are a lot of other people out there having this same problem and I'm sure only a handful of them are even aware of this site, so God help those poor so and so's that they don't even have any friends with our mutual interest to vent to. What makes me feel even worse, if you can believe it, is that there are these poor souls out there writing and saying how there isn't a thing wrong with their trucks and they already have one thousand trouble-free miles on them.

Guess what? At one thousand miles, I didn't have any trouble either. Believe me, I'm NOT wishing these people any trouble with their trucks. I don't need any extra company here. It's just that if GM would recall these trucks and fix them so they're right, these other people won't have to go through what I and the other ill-fated owners are going through right now, and they won't have to scratch their heads and wonder if it will ever be their turn in the barrel. Also, there might not be a national recall on this problem, yet, but they do already have bulletins on this issue. Can a recall be far behind?

And as long as we're at it, can you really believe that this problem is only affecting one hundred thousandth of one percent (your numbers, not mine) of the Duramax trucks? There are only 5 with problems? Better bone up on your math, my friend, and I do sincerely hope that your truck is spared - it's already over-crowded with this here problem...Carmine
 
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