better yet how much would you sell one of theise fabbed up to us dieselplacers?

 

One of these days I will have a surface grinder and mill, so I could build stuff like this in a timely manner. But this was all done with simple hand held stuff, so it really isn't cost effective. But one of these days!!

 

Nice job Vetter, looks like it will minimize torsional crank movement. IMO, it is one of the things that these blocks were lacking. We have tried this with straight 5 pin girdles and are happy with the results. There is a definite change in the harmonics when these engines are girdled up.

What are you going to use to bolt it on ? The first we did, we used new head-bolts shortened to correct length, the second was with ARP main studs. Now we are in the process of doing a third with girdle and ARP, and 3" of cement in the bottom of water jacket.

When building ours, we were very careful not to have binding of the bolts in their respective holes. Also, we do not have a mill or surface grinder either. so when laying it on, we first checked with a straight edge the tollerances in the level and flatness of the individual main caps in respect to each other. They were very close, so just checked the girdle for flatness. After it was laid on, torqued to 10 ftlbs and re-checked with a .002" feeler gauge between girdle and main caps. We removed the pan on one of our girdle motors after about 5000 miles. We did not see any cracks, abnormal bore wear or most importantly, no cracks. This block had boost spikes of 25-30 psi, and ran for extended periods over 15 psi boost.

Once again, great job...

 

Nice job Vetter, looks like it will minimize torsional crank movement. IMO, it is one of the things that these blocks were lacking. We have tried this with straight 5 pin girdles and are happy with the results. There is a definite change in the harmonics when these engines are girdled up.

What are you going to use to bolt it on ? The first we did, we used new head-bolts shortened to correct length, the second was with ARP main studs. Now we are in the process of doing a third with girdle and ARP, and 3" of cement in the bottom of water jacket.

When building ours, we were very careful not to have binding of the bolts in their respective holes. Also, we do not have a mill or surface grinder either. so when laying it on, we first checked with a straight edge the tollerances in the level and flatness of the individual main caps in respect to each other. They were very close, so just checked the girdle for flatness. After it was laid on, torqued to 10 ftlbs and re-checked with a .002" feeler gauge between girdle and main caps. We removed the pan on one of our girdle motors after about 5000 miles. We did not see any cracks, abnormal bore wear or most importantly, no cracks. This block had boost spikes of 25-30 psi, and ran for extended periods over 15 psi boost.

Once again, great job...

Thanks Turbonator Guys!
Actually, this girdle should be dedicated to you two. Your posting is what I followed to build this. I just added a few modifications. which I believe would make it more stable, but it is probably just overkill.
I used 2" x 2" x 3/8" angle iron, then once it was flat on the mains, drilled, and clearanced, I bolted it to a donor block. I stayed with the 2" x 2" angle iron, because I planned on using stiffeners inside this. but this did require removing a lot of material, to clearance the oil pan.
I then used 1" x 1/2" flat stock, with the main bolt locations clearanced away, then welded it inside the angle iron girdles. I left it bolted to the block until completely cooled down. Removed it, then verified the flatness did not change. To my surprise, it did change a small amount, so I corrected this again.
Then re-bolted it on the block, and welded the 2" x 3/8" cross braces, after bending them with my tubing bender. I'm not sure these cross braces will do anything, but I beleive tying the 2 girdles together, will help stiffen them up.

I am just using new shortened head bolts for now. Im using this engine as a test block in my C60 for now, it has not had a full rebuild on it yet, it only has 80,000 miles originally. Once I get it in the truck, and the turbo bolted on, I want to see how this engine will do before dumping a lot of money in it. If all goes well, and I'm satisfied with the power, I want to go all out on a complete rebuild 6.2 or 6.5. Then I will go with head studs, and main studs on the new block.
Turbonator, do you happen to have the part #'s for the main studs?

 

Ya looks good but do you wana break down what you used for material especially the side rails.

 

Another high quality diesel porn piece.... nice job :thumb:

 

I think this is getting added to the to do list, thanks.

 

I'm wondering what will happen to the main cap registers when those bowed cross pieces are heated up to block and oil running temperatures.

IE: Will the pieces lengthen enough to put stress on the registers.

For example:

That's for steel pipe in inches per 100 feet, but you get the idea. 100 feet of pipe gains anywhere from 1/4 to nearly an inch at only 100 F, dependent on the starting temp of the material. More proof can be seen in the exhaust pipe on the truck. As it heats, it gets longer. Thermal expansion at work.

If those bars do expand, they'll be essentially "spreading" the block webs across the skirt valley. Bad way to load it if there is a tendency for cracks in the webs and cap bolts/registers. The outer bolts and bolt hole in the cast iron will be side loaded at that point also, something they are not really designed for.

Even a .020 expansion can exert considerable stress. Stress loading is something the GM blocks already have enough of IMHO.

I guess to know the expansion rates for certain of you'd have to take a measurement of similar pieces of curved flat stock, heat them in an oven (heating must be even to get a representative measurement) and measure again.

Not trying to throw a wet blanket on it, just wondering if this is something that was considered in the design phase....

 

Your sorta over thinking things. You wouldn't drive your truck cold if you sat down and figured out the difference between aluminum and cast iron expansion rates.

Yes, there is a big difference between the thermal expansion rates of the different metals, unless your really good at home casting iron, anything we can do to keep the bottom end happy and in one piece is good.

Just keep it from binding on the bolts and everything is square, level and bolt it up.

 

No, I don't think so.

The expansion of aluminum pistons and cast bores are part of the clearance designed in to the engine. Same with the bearings, camshafts, lifters, etc.

Besides, I'm not talking about dissimilar metals here. I'm talking about a dimensional change in the added structure and the forces it will/may impart on the block structure. Gaining .020 is gaining .020....

We're talking about a structure hard bolted to the lower end of the block in and areas known for cracking failures. The torquing of the main caps guarantees this. If it's going to be clearanced in the holes and allowed to "slide" under the cap bolts, it won't be providing the structure hoped for anyways.

The longitudinal braces alone are a different story. They aren't acting in the same planes. I'm not sold on them either, but the installation seems harmless at any rate.

Just looking at it from an engineering standpoint.

But, it's easily figured out; just heat up a couple pieces of the same bar stock and see what you get. Negligible lengthening is a-ok!

 

Wouldn't making the bolt hole tolerance a touch larger give a little better expansion relief from binding and spreading/pulling ?

 

The bolt holes in the main caps are already larger to allow for some give in the expansion differences between caps and the block. The graph shown indicates an average expansion over a 100' length of pipe. We need also to calculate in the actual expansion of the caps and the block. This expansion will reduce the overall effect of the girdles expansion. We (Jeff and I) discuss, and research as best we can to try to make somewhat educated decisions on what mods we will attempt. We can not be accused of over-engineering something that is for sure. We are in good company in this aspect though, as GM sure did not over-engineer this motor.

One more thing, our first girdle motor was installed in a C5000, and we pulled our equipment trailer with it for a total of many times close to 30,000lbs. To us, real world said the girdle helped. We visually re-inspected this block (webs and bores) after 5,000 miles. Very happy with the results... no unusual bore wear and the one crack (yes we have used cracked blocks) did not seem to have changed any.

When I finish up here, I will find the ARP part #'s for the studs, nuts and washers we used.

Keep up the good work and discussion guys....

 

I've had my say.

Consider it or not, your choice. No hard feelings intended either way.

Merry Xmas to all.

 

I've had my say.

Consider it or not, your choice. No hard feelings intended either way.

Merry Xmas to all.

No hard feelings at all.
But I would think the expansion in the cross braces, wouldn't be any more predominent than in the main caps themselves, except that the main caps are a lot strudier than a 3/8" curved piece of flat stock. Being curved as they are, would actually cause the material to be more forgiving.

 

Okay, finally made it back. Found my notes from our design, and Jeff got me our quote request with CNC Motorsports (our supplier for ARP and Techline).

The studs need to be two different lengths, fitting the steps on the main caps and the center bolts thread further into the main webs. Being that our girdle has "feet of 3/8" thickness", and IIRC yours does too, I will give you the part #'s we used. These are the ARP part #'s, so any supplier will be able to use these #'s to order. The 12point nuts are; 300-8307, the flat washers are; 200-8500, and the studs we used were; AU4.175-1LB.

These studs were too long for the front holes where the pan tapers up, so I cut them all off about .200" from the bottom coarse thread of the stud. I preferred to go this direction because I wanted to have the shoulder of the stud to make contact with the top of the threaded hole in the web, instead of the thread bottoming out in the web. Hopefully this will reduce any stud wobble. The thread depth in the webs when I measured them (outside holes), were all between .840" to .860". If you plan to stud also the inner 10 holes, I would suggest using a stud that is a little longer; AU4.315-1B.

These studs are all M12-1.75 threaded for the block, with one inch of thread on the bottom and a fine thread (not sure of pitch) of 1.250" on the top. You need to order the nuts and washers, as they are not included with stud. Also, ARP suggests using their "Fastener Assembly Lubricant", which seems to be a Moly-based product.

Like I said, did not find our receipt, but I think it was around $125.00 for the set.

Hope this is somewhat of a help for you all, goodnite.

Jim

 

Okay, finally made it back. Found my notes from our design, and Jeff got me our quote request with CNC Motorsports (our supplier for ARP and Techline).

The studs need to be two different lengths, fitting the steps on the main caps and the center bolts thread further into the main webs. Being that our girdle has "feet of 3/8" thickness", and IIRC yours does too, I will give you the part #'s we used. These are the ARP part #'s, so any supplier will be able to use these #'s to order. The 12point nuts are; 300-8307, the flat washers are; 200-8500, and the studs we used were; AU4.175-1LB.

These studs were too long for the front holes where the pan tapers up, so I cut them all off about .200" from the bottom coarse thread of the stud. I preferred to go this direction because I wanted to have the shoulder of the stud to make contact with the top of the threaded hole in the web, instead of the thread bottoming out in the web. Hopefully this will reduce any stud wobble. The thread depth in the webs when I measured them (outside holes), were all between .840" to .860". If you plan to stud also the inner 10 holes, I would suggest using a stud that is a little longer; AU4.315-1B.

These studs are all M12-1.75 threaded for the block, with one inch of thread on the bottom and a fine thread (not sure of pitch) of 1.250" on the top. You need to order the nuts and washers, as they are not included with stud. Also, ARP suggests using their "Fastener Assembly Lubricant", which seems to be a Moly-based product.

Like I said, did not find our receipt, but I think it was around $125.00 for the set.

Hope this is somewhat of a help for you all, goodnite.

Jim

An excellent help as always. Thank you!

 

Finished the motor, and it's installed!

Since I started this thread, I figured I would just keep adding to it.
I was able to get the motor all assembled, built the motor mounts, and was able to get the motor installed in the truck.
The original motor mount, was for a small block chevy, which was bolted to the front motor mount points. I wanted to use the original cross member, and have no interference when removing the oil pan (if needed), so I ended up cutting the SBC mount a little, and attaching it to the 6.2 mounts. But 6.2's dont have provisions for front attach points. Best part was, I used all left over material from a previous project.
Everything should fit fine, even the turbo. But that motor looked big on my engine stand, it sure looks small inside that C60!!!!

 

Few more pics

Just a few more pics. To show the offset that was built into the front motor mount, and cross member. I'm not sure why the offset was built into the truck, because I couldn't really find any interference with anything.

 

I think the offset was to make the clutch Z shaft longer so engine movement didn't play so much havoc with the clutch.
Speaking of engine movement, I'd put restraint cables or chains on the motor. If one or both trany mounts brake it turns into a nasty mess.