Diesel Place banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
DIY Injection Pump (IP) removal and replacement (R&R). The engine barred over fine when removing the IP to get the three little bolts out from through the oil fill port. (6.5 TD '95 suburban).

I installed a new gasket, dropped the pump in place,
lined up the pump pulley so that engagement pin would go in its hole, and put the first bolt it and tighteened her down.

While barring over the engine to access the second bolt-hole, it turned a bit and then wouldn't move any further. I ealized I hadn't put it in neutral :rolleyes: . However, after hooking up the battery long enough to ensure it was in neutral, I can still only get the engine to barr over far enough to move the bolt holes a bit but not to access the next one. It stops no matter what direction I turn it after about a 1/16 of a turn. :confused:

In the AM I was planning on removing the IP. and trying to barr the engine over then. Maybe it is because I only have one bolt in and it is binding up at the pump. However, with one bolt in and the refrenced engagement pin in place, it should turn fine as I bar over the engine!

Any ideas?


PS:

Also, I am completely nervous about dropping a bolt into the engine through the fill tube! I am sure this has happened before..what would you do if that happened????!? :eek:

So far I have packed my socket with grease to hold the bolt in place and got it started by hand without a ratchet.

cheers!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
I'm assuming the pump turned ok to line up the pin. Did you put the pump mounting nuts on? It might be possible that the pump is not sitting flush. The drive gear could be rubbing against the case. As for the bolt dropping concern, I stuff a rag below the bolt holes. Leave enough sticking out to remove it before turning the engine to access the next hole.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
greener dreams

It sounds like the gear isn't on the hub of the injection pump.You need to get the bolt back into the oil fill hole and loosen it up and try to tap the gear on with a punch.Have seen this many times and never jumped a tooth yet so you should be okay.The engine will turn hard because the gear is hitting the front cover.
Good luck:)


Kevv
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Ok. I never would have known. How much do I owe ya?


If understand correctly the gear moved out of position (towards the bumper) and is making contact with the case, preventing the engine from turning and the IP from mounting fluch on the gear.

My question is, how is it possible for that egar to be moving around?!

That's not as important as getting it right.

Following your suggestion I have removed the bolt from the IP pulley (through the oil filler port) and removed the IP. I have used a punch and banged on the gear. I am not sure if it moved back towards the IP.

So if the gear is still rubbing on the case, as you fellows wisely pointed out then even with the IP removed, the engine shouldn't bar over right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
yes that's correct. I see now that the gear needs to be pushed towards the front bumper and away from the IP. Actually, I am not sure if I need a punch at all as I can easily move the gear with my hand; however, I will try to tap it 'on' assuming that if the teeth are meshing correctly I shouldn't be able to move it so freely with my hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Help!

The IP has to be basically tightened down all the way in order for the gear to be aligned correctly when the bolts are subsequently installed through the oil fill port. I had no idea that gear could flop around so much front to back, it doesn't take but a 1/2 a cm either way it seems for it to bind up and not allow the engine to bar over.

However, I overtightened one of the bolts through the oil fill port and sheared of the head :eek: .

Can you believe it?

I took a picture using a mirror but it is about 250K and exceeds the allowable filesize of 146.5K so I cant upload it.

Do I have to drill it out and tap the new hole?

Wait, now that I am typing this out my brain has started to work. I should be able to pull the IP off since there is no head on the bolt and use an easy out?

GD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
easy out

even with the broken head on the bolt the IP won't come off, I'll have to drill it out in place. One problem fixed and created another -:t

since the original issue has been resolved, I'll likely end this post..

thanks fellas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
374 Posts
Greener Dreams,

Are you the cat replacing the IP who has been running WVO? I'm a frequenter of the Frybrid and the infopop boards.

this is a great message board.

You cranking the heat up on your WVO conversion?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
well, others may tell you different, but I have seen plenty of them run with two bolts. even had one come inthe shop with one bolt in it.
had a truck one time come in, someone had installed and engine baout3 yrs prior. truck died and would not restart. pulled oil fill tube and found NO BOLTS. it had run and the bolts had ocme out. finally sheared the alignment pin from the pump. customer had little to no money, so i put three new bolts in, the old ones had to be in the pan by then. the truck is still running around, and that has to be about 5 yrs ago.
brian.


The IP has to be basically tightened down all the way in order for the gear to be aligned correctly when the bolts are subsequently installed through the oil fill port. I had no idea that gear could flop around so much front to back, it doesn't take but a 1/2 a cm either way it seems for it to bind up and not allow the engine to bar over.

However, I overtightened one of the bolts through the oil fill port and sheared of the head :eek: .

Can you believe it?

I took a picture using a mirror but it is about 250K and exceeds the allowable filesize of 146.5K so I cant upload it.

Do I have to drill it out and tap the new hole?

Wait, now that I am typing this out my brain has started to work. I should be able to pull the IP off since there is no head on the bolt and use an easy out?

GD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
IP bolt

Thanks, that is tempting. However, I am going to try and easy it out today and replace it. I think it is a stretch bolt so I'll have to get it from the dealer, if they have it. Might as well replace all three with new bolts.

Yea I WVO. Based on the evidence, it appears that the IP suffered viscocity induced failure due to running VO that was between approximately 100 and 120° F after 17K miles on it. SO yes I am cranking up the heat and fine tuning some other variables.

cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,432 Posts
Broke bolt should come out with a sharp punch. It might even be loose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Actully, there are broken bolt threads (at least two) that are still in the threaded portion of the gear, so punching it might damage the threads in the gear!?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I had marked the timing on the housing of the IP when I pulled it off. The rebuilt one does not show the marks due to their cleaning or coating application or whatever they did to make it look so clean. I wonder if it is the same housing. THe did say the were going to use my core.

Anyway I am going to have to use a memory based guess as to the timing position. I'll try to err on the side of advanced but wondering if this will be a prob.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
IP is on and I have installed the injecotrs and metal fuel lines to eachr espective injector.

I am worried about the lines leaking.

Isn't there anyway I can check to see if the compression fittings from IP to injectors are going to leak before I put the intake manifolds back on?

I am afraid the answer is no.

I bent an injector return nipple on the #5 injector ( right by the turbo fan). I can tell because I couldn't get the injector return line on the nipple since it was bent towards the injector. I had to bend it back to get the line on. Will it leak?

I have some old injectors. I suppose I should replace it now since I still have the turbo fan and intake manifold off, and it is relatively easy to reach.

What do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,598 Posts
I'd move that injector to hole #1 or 3 for better access, if its buggered it will be an easy change from there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
EXCELLENT IDEA!! :beerchug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
Actully, there are broken bolt threads (at least two) that are still in the threaded portion of the gear, so punching it might damage the threads in the gear!?

Uh, not sure what you are working on there, but there is no threaded portion of gear. it is a smooth hole. if you pull the pump out, there may be some of the bolt sticking out of the shaft, you can probably unscrew it with your fingers, unless it was crossthreaded, or you used locktight on it.
brian.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
I had marked the timing on the housing of the IP when I pulled it off. The rebuilt one does not show the marks due to their cleaning or coating application or whatever they did to make it look so clean. I wonder if it is the same housing. THe did say the were going to use my core.

Anyway I am going to have to use a memory based guess as to the timing position. I'll try to err on the side of advanced but wondering if this will be a prob.
will not matter either way. if your pump was rebuilt and you could still see the marks, it will not end up exactly where the timing used to be. certainly someone has reset timing inthe life of it to compensate for chain and pump wear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
227 Posts
IP is on and I have installed the injecotrs and metal fuel lines to eachr espective injector.

I am worried about the lines leaking.

Isn't there anyway I can check to see if the compression fittings from IP to injectors are going to leak before I put the intake manifolds back on?

I am afraid the answer is no.

I bent an injector return nipple on the #5 injector ( right by the turbo fan). I can tell because I couldn't get the injector return line on the nipple since it was bent towards the injector. I had to bend it back to get the line on. Will it leak?

I have some old injectors. I suppose I should replace it now since I still have the turbo fan and intake manifold off, and it is relatively easy to reach.

What do you think?
Yes, you can check for leaks by starting it. the intake does not need to be there for it to run.
I do it all the time. I have two nice little blockoff plates for the exhaust risers to keep that from blowing back onme.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Uh, not sure what you are working on there, but there is no threaded portion of gear. it is a smooth hole. if you pull the pump out, there may be some of the bolt sticking out of the shaft, you can probably unscrew it with your fingers, unless it was crossthreaded, or you used locktight on it.
brian.
That's what I thought....at first. However, I tried to pull the pump off with the one broken bolt in, and it just wouldn't come out, even with some prying. I used a mirror and light through the oil fill port and it looks threaded to me. You probably know better than I, but I even took a picture and it looks like a threaded gear. It is not cross threaded and no loctite. I bought an ampro torque wrench and it doesn't work, overtightens even at super low settings. :wtf:

I cannot seem to post the picture because it exceeds the allowable attachment size by about 100k.

SO, if I hook up the same pump (but rebuilt) in the exact same position, ur saying the timing would still be off?! Counterintuitive, but ok.


I'll have to find a scanner cuz I'm prob way off..

cheers

I can start this thing with the intake off?!?!

Ok there's also no EGR, turbo fan, and many other plugs and sensors that are not hooked up. Also, the fuel manager is supposed to mount ON TOP of the intake manifold, but...I guess I could just set it up there somewhere ):h.

I don't have any block off plates. It would make me very nervous :eek:: to start it like that...tempting though..

Thanks for your input.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top