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That doesn't seem so simple.

May I ask what exactly are the differences between the injectors for the normally aspirated and the turbocharged models of the 6.5?

While reading our FAQ post on injector part numbers, there are two entries in the Bosch table for 6.5L NA engines. How do I know which to use?

I'm not seeing an abundance of injectors available for the normally aspirated 6.5 engines. What are the effects of using the model of injectors for the turbocharged 6.5 in my normally aspirated 6.5?

Regarding the Bosch preference, the other two manufacturers (Stanadyne and Delphi) are names known to me. Can you comment on your preference? I had a look on OReilly's web site, and they have AC Delco injectors. This decision may come down to what is available, but I'm curious about the differences.

Lots of questions, new things to learn. Everyone wants to make good decisions. Thanks for your help.
The difference between the injectors are the N/A injectors are set at a lower pop rate for the economy precups in the heads
The turbo 6.5 has different precups and higher pop rate injectors
 

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Since I made the nozzle chart > Just make sure you have the right nozzle and you;ll be OK, The pressure difference will not be noticable... I like Bosch or Delphi best quality
 

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1997 Grumman Olson 12 ft step van, NA 6.5 diesel (RPO L57), 4L80E transmission
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Thanks, but I wouldn't know the right nozzle if it was in front of me.

I sure would like to know what Bosch part number to get for the L57 engine. There are two listed, and have different part numbers.
 

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New > 0432217229 # on injector body> .0430211054. Tip # 0SD304 pressure> 126 bar Application > .6.5L N.A.

Do not buy aftermarket.... New Bosch or Delphi Ebay junk has china made tips as well as most rebuilds. Lots of counterfeit Bosch as well
 

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1997 Grumman Olson 12 ft step van, NA 6.5 diesel (RPO L57), 4L80E transmission
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Scheduled it for service in a week to replace the injectors and glow plugs. The smoking is getting worse. Starts aren't as smooth as they were, but still as quick. On some cold starts, there's a brief puff of that grey smoke and a stumble in the cadence of the running engine that quickly smooths.

I don't think there are any failed glow plugs, but they seem to be another wear item that we may as well replace while we're working there.

I expect I'll have a happy engine next week. I'll be back with the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hoo, boy! My engine is complaining some mornings now that it's a little colder. I've had a few very rough (though quick) starts, with rough running for a few moments, accompanied by that white/grey smoke. This indicates a glow plug or two not functioning also, I think.

Replacing those too, while they're in there working on my van.

My mechanic indexes the components when he removes them, so I'll be able to do some failure analysis when it's done. I'm pretty confident this work will solve the problem, and am very curious to see what failed and maybe learn why.
 

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This may be one of those, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" moments. Might try to mess around with injectors and strip something or break something and end up wishing that you'd left it alone. Teenage trucks and ppl are similar, they tend to smoke sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
This may be one of those, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" moments. Might try to mess around with injectors and strip something or break something and end up wishing that you'd left it alone. Teenage trucks and ppl are similar, they tend to smoke sometimes.
This is my business' service van. It makes no sense to wait for an ill timed failure. Better to schedule preventive work on my off days.

A certainty is these symptoms won't fix themselves, and the symptoms are rapidly becoming more severe. it's cool, though. My clients in the last week just paid to do this work. My shop's van is a machine that pays to get itself fixed!
 

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After running Seafoam thru it with no better results. I think new Injectors and Glow plugs should fix your problem. Glow plugs wear out over time. as do injectors. As i said in previous post USLD is hard on injectors. After replacing yours. Be sure to run an additive to keep injectors and the injection pump lubed properly.
6.5s when running good, are a clean running engine. A little puff of grey smoke when first starting in the morning is normal. It should clear right up.
It should not smoke the way you describe. If my truck smoked like that. I would be on it fixing the problem.
With your business name on the side. A good clean running service van leaves a good impression with folks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
After running Seafoam thru it with no better results. I think new Injectors and Glow plugs should fix your problem. Glow plugs wear out over time. as do injectors. As i said in previous post USLD is hard on injectors. After replacing yours. Be sure to run an additive to keep injectors and the injection pump lubed properly.
6.5s when running good, are a clean running engine. A little puff of grey smoke when first starting in the morning is normal. It should clear right up.
It should not smoke the way you describe. If my truck smoked like that. I would be on it fixing the problem.
With your business name on the side. A good clean running service van leaves a good impression with folks.
They have all of the glow plugs replaced, and half of the injectors (passenger side). Before quitting time, they got the return lines installed on that side, and we started it to check the work. No leaks on the new side!

It stumbled after starting, until the new injectors started delivering fuel to the starboard side of the engine. Then, it smoothed right out, and no smoke. We'll get the port side injectors done tomorrow! I'll have a little less cash reserves, but my van's engine will be tip top!

Lighting wasn't great for photography. There are visible carbon deposits on the faces of the injectors. Much more carbon than I would have expected to see. I expected to see blackening, but not depositing. But, what the hell do I know what I'm seeing? I'll get the rest of them tomorrow, and get some detailed photos posted as soon as I can.

I'm confident this is the solution. The proof will be tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
No joy.

Although, I do have the original injectors and glow plugs indexed to their installed positions, and I'll get those pictures up as soon as I can take them. I assume a 1-3-5-7 (left bank) and 2-4-6-8 (right bank) cylinder numbering scheme with cylinder 1 at front left of the engine.

Cylinders 7 and 8 injectors show the least carbon deposition, while cylinders 3 through 6 injectors have the heaviest carbon buildup.

The fantastic simplicity of a mechanically injected diesel engine seems to lead to one component, since the injectors and glow plugs are no longer suspect. All glow plugs have under one ohm resistance, so none were burned open.

It seems I need a new DB2 injection pump. Sloppy timing chain may be a problem, I suppose. I don't even know if this engine has timing chains or gears.

How on earth do you test this stuff? How do you sense the fuel pulses to the cylinders to measure timing?

Wow! If I bring the rpms up to 1500 or so (estimated), I can blow that blue white smoke like crazy. Whatever is failing, isn't the fuel injectors

My next call is already in to a diesel specialist to consult on the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Can any of you work me back from what the symptom of grey/white smoke production means? What causes the smoking? What's happening inside the combustion chambers?

I'm just guessing, but isn't that smoke actually unburnt fuel? I am assuming the injectors won't inject at all, unless a high enough pressure fueling event occurs. I can't figure out how fuel can even exist in the combustion chamber except when it's supposed to be injected.

Something else that's confusing is, I thought overfueling caused black, not gray/white smoke.

I still don't have my mind around what conditions can cause this symptom. Troubleshooting by substitution hasn't been effective so far.

I was wondering if fuel starvation is causing this. A thing that makes me think not is that under full load, full throttle acceleration, it produces no smoke. It gets to work and drives up the hill, engine temperature peaking at 195 degrees, just like it should. Low load, above idle rpms a bit, and it smokes. Fuel starvation would behave worse at full throttle, I'd think, when fuel flow is supposed to be higher.

At this point, the injector pump seems the likely problem. I can't figure how that pump could cause the symptoms I see, though. Again, I have no experience with failed injector pumps. I have no idea how the engine behaves when the injector pump begins to fail, or how many ways it can fail, for that matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
So far, the only actual evidence I have is carbon deposition on 25 year old injectors. Until today.

To prepare to replace the injector pump, I had the doghouse off of the engine to survey the work. Aside from the need to remove the left front fender liner to get to the injectors on that side, the forward control step van chassis makes it fairly easy to work on the engine. And, the L57 normally aspirated engine layout makes the job mostly accessible right from the cab. My biggest concern is rigging a shield to prevent dropping the three driven gear bolts.

While I was surveying the work, I had the air cleaner off, exposing the fuel filter manager. Since I keep a spare filter, I thought it might be foolish to begin the job to replace the injector pump before having a look at that fuel filter.

The amount of brown crud in the bottom of the fuel filter manager was shocking. I don't know the age of that buildup, but the filter was visibly loaded with it. It took me quite some time to clean it all out of the fuel filter manager, before installing the new Wix 33976 filter, and taking it for a test drive. What appears to be a place to attach a piece of hosing to bleed the filter, is nothing but a knob to nowhere. The Wix filter bleed just leaks fuel out all over the top of the filter cap when the air is gone. You want a rag to catch that fuel.

I suspect flow through that heavily clogged fuel filter was pretty restricted.

The smoking was really getting heavy sometimes, to the point where I was avoiding some roads with speed limits that caused it to smoke. It was visibly smoking in normal driving conditions, now. Why the rapid onset? What can change so dramatically, so quickly?

I think the answer is it was me.

With a fresh fuel filter, the stumbling starts that were increasing stopped. The smoke on start stopped. I took it for a test ride and had difficulty making it smoke. Though, the engine had returned to the light, occasional smoking that I described in my first post. Until I let loose a couple cans of Seafoam into my fuel tank. I think I clogged my fuel filter.

I think that Seafoam did what it says it will do, and flushed all sorts of crap from the fuel tank, crap that had been there for 25 years, and was now clogging my fuel filter.

I'll replace the fuel filter again in a week, and we'll see what needs to happen next. I have to have a perfect fuel system before I go for that injection pump.

On the ride back from our test ride, I seemed to lose a cylinder, with a loss of power, rough running, and a hell of a clatter from that cylinder. It smoothed out while I was seeking a safe place to pull over, and returned to running normally. As if an injector were momentarily blocked.

The crud in the fuel filter manager and the visibly clogged filter are solid evidence, and I think could cause fuel starvation. I wonder if what I felt and thought were power bumps were actually dropouts from fuel starvation. I don't know exactly what that feels like or sounds like, either.

Finally, the tone of the engine has returned to how I remember it sounding, particularly on startup. Before replacing the fuel filter, it had a much sharper diesel clatter, noticeably quieter again now.
 

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Use a short piece of 1/2" heater hose to safely remove the IP bolts.
Loosen bolt some, push hose over the hex head, remove bolt.
Works for installation also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
The situation seems to be fuel starvation, caused by fouled fuel filter, clogged by clay. I've scheduled the service to drop the fuel tank and clean it. I have to eliminate that question mark, and I don't think a case of fuel filters is the best way to do that.

While working, they can scope the tank interior to inspect, and replace it if needed.

It appears the fuel filter did its job. Though, I suspect a particle got stirred through the screen in the fuel filter manager as I was removing the filter, and blocked an injector for a few seconds. But, that is conjecture. A few minutes into the test drive after replacing the fuel filter, one cylinder made a hell of a knocking sound for a few seconds. It cleared, and has not returned since.

Any ideas what that knocking was? I hope I didn't damage the engine.
 

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The situation seems to be fuel starvation, caused by fouled fuel filter, clogged by clay. I've scheduled the service to drop the fuel tank and clean it. I have to eliminate that question mark, and I don't think a case of fuel filters is the best way to do that.

While working, they can scope the tank interior to inspect, and replace it if needed.

It appears the fuel filter did its job. Though, I suspect a particle got stirred through the screen in the fuel filter manager as I was removing the filter, and blocked an injector for a few seconds. But, that is conjecture. A few minutes into the test drive after replacing the fuel filter, one cylinder made a hell of a knocking sound for a few seconds. It cleared, and has not returned since.

Any ideas what that knocking was? I hope I didn't damage the engine.
Tank delamination has been an issue with some vehicles. Have them inspect the interior of the tank well
 

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A little knocking after opening up the fuel system is normal. Its just air working its way thru.
There is a small screen/ filter under the fuel filter on the bottom of the fuel manager. Did you check and clean that also? It is important that it is clean.
Tire Automotive tire Motor vehicle Fluid Automotive lighting
 
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
A little knocking after opening up the fuel system is normal. Its just air working its way thru.
There is a small screen/ filter under the fuel filter on the bottom of the fuel manager. Did you check and clean that also? It is important that it is clean.
Indeed, I did. It brushed clean, and I didn't stop until swabs were coming back clean. I did not remove it. I didn't want to risk any of the crap that was in there getting past the filter screen. I used a dental mirror to inspect my work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I’m back to close the loop on this problem.

There was a lot going on, all at once, and I think I started it with that dose of Seafoam injector cleaner.

My injectors had some carbon deposits. But, I imagine they were working fine all along.

The real problem was the a clogged fuel filter. It was filled with flakes from the fuel tank liner, as well as corrosion flakes from the fuel tank as well. Seeking to preemptively remove any injector deposits, I think the Seafoam solvents did their job on the liner of the fuel tank, clogging the fuel filter, causing fuel starvation.

I probably replaced the injectors unnecessarily, and I know all of the glow plugs were working, too. With the fuel starvation problem resolved, the L57 engine in my van is once more very, very happy.

The resolution was to replace the fuel tank. No more contamination from the tank itself! After the tank went in, I gave it a fresh fuel filter again. While I was at it, I lengthened the drain line on the fuel filter manager, so I can take a good fuel sample without splattering diesel oil all over the chassis under the engine.

I just corrected the last fault I was experiencing: bumbling but successful starts on cold (freezing temps) mornings. It did it again to me this morning. Started right up, but bumbled for about four seconds before smoothing out perfectly. I found cylinder eight’s glow plug wire wasn’t connected. Cylinder eight wouldn’t fire on a cold morning, until it had enough compression cycles to begin dieseling properly. It would cause exactly what I observed. An ”oops” from the mechanic.

It turns out it doesn’t need a new DB2 injection pump after all. I’m glad I didn’t replace it unnecessarily.

Thanks for your suggestions and help, everyone.
 

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I’m back to close the loop on this problem.

There was a lot going on, all at once, and I think I started it with that dose of Seafoam injector cleaner.

My injectors had some carbon deposits. But, I imagine they were working fine all along.

The real problem was the a clogged fuel filter. It was filled with flakes from the fuel tank liner, as well as corrosion flakes from the fuel tank as well. Seeking to preemptively remove any injector deposits, I think the Seafoam solvents did their job on the liner of the fuel tank, clogging the fuel filter, causing fuel starvation.

I probably replaced the injectors unnecessarily, and I know all of the glow plugs were working, too. With the fuel starvation problem resolved, the L57 engine in my van is once more very, very happy.

The resolution was to replace the fuel tank. No more contamination from the tank itself! After the tank went in, I gave it a fresh fuel filter again. While I was at it, I lengthened the drain line on the fuel filter manager, so I can take a good fuel sample without splattering diesel oil all over the chassis under the engine.

I just corrected the last fault I was experiencing: bumbling but successful starts on cold (freezing temps) mornings. It did it again to me this morning. Started right up, but bumbled for about four seconds before smoothing out perfectly. I found cylinder eight’s glow plug wire wasn’t connected. Cylinder eight wouldn’t fire on a cold morning, until it had enough compression cycles to begin dieseling properly. It would cause exactly what I observed. An ”oops” from the mechanic.

It turns out it doesn’t need a new DB2 injection pump after all. I’m glad I didn’t replace it unnecessarily.

Thanks for your suggestions and help, everyone.
Glad you got the issue resolved.
Thanks for giving us an update!
(y)
 
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