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Any one have any ideas on how to get a DS4 pump to 120mm output on fuel? I just bought the engine that sctrailrider built and need a ds4 that can fuel it.
 

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Not sure if any have gotten above 104-105mm^3 out of a DS4. Hopefully, if it is done, this will be something shared with the masses...LOL. Tom might also have some ideas. Do not recall any, after having a tune done (by whomever), also flow tested the pump and posted up the resulting flow chart or the [email protected] rpms.....
 

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I talked to Bill Heath today about his merlin ds4 pump, he claims with his special merlin ecm tune with that pump, that it will far out perform the db2. He says with that and the cam he sells, and that the way the engine is currently built that he could get me at 400 to 420 hp. I dont know, sounds awfull optimistic to me, as we all know that 400 horse mark with the 6.5 is hard to reach.
 

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I talked to Bill Heath today about his merlin ds4 pump, he claims with his special merlin ecm tune with that pump, that it will far out perform the db2. He says with that and the cam he sells, and that the way the engine is currently built that he could get me at 400 to 420 hp. I dont know, sounds awfull optimistic to me, as we all know that 400 horse mark with the 6.5 is hard to reach.
A few have claimed to have obtained 400hp at the crank. For us however, there has only been two 6.2/6.5L trucks to break 300hp at the wheels (John and Ian). Would need to be in excess of 25% powertrain losses (not unreasonable), to be 400 plus horsepower at the crank. People can claim all they would like to, but until actual hard data is shown, it is just hypothetical......
 

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respect the DB4 5722....
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I talked to Bill Heath today about his merlin ds4 pump, he claims with his special merlin ecm tune with that pump, that it will far out perform the db2. He says with that and the cam he sells, and that the way the engine is currently built that he could get me at 400 to 420 hp. I dont know, sounds awfull optimistic to me, as we all know that 400 horse mark with the 6.5 is hard to reach.
his cam also has the ability to drop your engine down to a 5.6l as well... if talking about CFM....:HiHi:
 
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Discussion Starter #7
A few have claimed to have obtained 400hp at the crank. People can claim all they would like to, but until actual hard data is shown, it is just hypothetical......
Agreed!
 

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Any one have any ideas on how to get a DS4 pump to 120mm output on fuel? I just bought the engine that sctrailrider built and need a ds4 that can fuel it.
do a mechanical swap to a DB4 built by R&D performance...

buy one like this, he is building them for gm diesels as well.....
 

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I'm not going to start anything here, it's a free country for the time being...

but I never cared to just accept what is said without SOMETHING that sort of looks like facts or proof of someones claim... to this day I haven't seen anything close to that from the seller mentioned... I will admit I don't purchase from that company as I have found a seller that can back up his claims and I have always received what was promised and I didn't half to purchase a load of other things just to improve what I had...

and if needed I can post the numbers for the db2 I have for the new motor that john also built... it also puts out quite a bit of fuel by the number sheet...
 

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I talked to Bill Heath today about his merlin ds4 pump, he claims with his special merlin ecm tune with that pump, that it will far out perform the db2. He says with that and the cam he sells, and that the way the engine is currently built that he could get me at 400 to 420 hp. I dont know, sounds awfull optimistic to me, as we all know that 400 horse mark with the 6.5 is hard to reach.
I would be willing to put up some cash and say that your new motor, if left the way it was would be at 300hp to the ground just like it sits or very close..

and I would like to see some numbers as to the claim "Far out perform a DB2" something other than talk...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I agree with what all of you are saying, claims and dyno reports are two different things. I would like to keep the ds4 though, so some research and calling around to a few people are in order.
 

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I agree with what all of you are saying, claims and dyno reports are two different things. I would like to keep the ds4 though, so some research and calling around to a few people are in order.
contact member greatwhite, he bought tunercat and played with it alot, word is he(or someone he knows) broke the code that gm wrote to stop the pump from going higher.....
 
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contact member greatwhite, he bought tunercat and played with it alot, word is he(or someone he knows) broke the code that gm wrote to stop the pump from going higher.....
Thanks, I was just reading about that same thing, seems the ds4 is quite capable, but is limited by the original coding, and can only be taken so far by a tuned ecm, before completly having to re-write the code.
 

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do a mechanical swap to a DB4 built by R&D performance...

buy one like this, he is building them for gm diesels as well.....
Makes me wish I had time and coin available. I guess I need to start with turbo and intercooler!
 

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With the programming, you can easily tell it to squirt about 120mm^3 per injection, by some math analysis, but I don't know what the OBD2 programming capabilities are, and I have never verified its pushing as much as the numbers would suggest.

The displacement of the DS4 makes it capable, especially if you increase the cam travel, and its probably easier to fill 4 plungers than 2.
 

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On the DS4 test stand you can set (request)the fuel to any desired amount up to 99 mm/3.

Typically the IP will only put put out about 82mm/3 max.

I have slightly altered the internals of the IP and with a little tweaking got 102mm/3.

However I never applied it to a vehicle as I am quite sure the vehicle performance would have been sub par for a daily driver. Being electronic I am not sure how the vehicle would have responded without extensive reprograming to the specific vehicle.

So from what I gather even the most extreme programing can only get you so much fuel. After that the IP needs some real attention to get higher levels of performance.

Try finding that on the internet.
 

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So does that mean when you set the test stand to 80mm^3 that is puts out 80mm^3, but when you set it to 99mm^3 it still only puts out 82mm^3? Or is it a sliding scale, that when you set it to 80mm^3 it only outputs 70mm^3?

Just wondering if there is a difference between a PCM and PMD pulse width setting and the test stand.
 

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FWIW I have Bill's tune in my truck, and it seems to be lacking fuel on the top end, acceleration is sluggish past 60mph. I emailed him asking if its possible to add more fuel to the top end, and he said the tune I have is set for 80mm fuel, which he claims is the same amount as his LSR truck. I was always under the impression that the pump is physically limited to 80mm, but if its just a matter of coding and software..... :)
 

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So does that mean when you set the test stand to 80mm^3 that is puts out 80mm^3, but when you set it to 99mm^3 it still only puts out 82mm^3? Or is it a sliding scale, that when you set it to 80mm^3 it only outputs 70mm^3?

Just wondering if there is a difference between a PCM and PMD pulse width setting and the test stand.

80 to 82 is pretty much the max. The pump tends to fall off after 75 is requested.

As a a side note the 5068 pump does put out slightly more, and that is due to the cam ring having just a small amount more lift. Think about .004" more. If memory serves me I think it could put out 86-88 max.

Keep in mind these pumps were set with the optic sensor in the optimum max side of spec. A stock set pump could very well put out even less than what I have listed. So results can very a wee bit.
 

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80 to 82 is pretty much the max. The pump tends to fall off after 75 is requested.

As a a side note the 5068 pump does put out slightly more, and that is due to the cam ring having just a small amount more lift. Think about .004" more. If memory serves me I think it could put out 86-88 max.

So, an approximate correlation here between the roller to roller distances, .001" more, will roughly translate to be 1-2mm^3 more fuel delivered.

Keep in mind these pumps were set with the optic sensor in the optimum max side of spec. A stock set pump could very well put out even less than what I have listed. So results can very a wee bit.
We have a couple of the DS4 parts lists, disappointingly though, not the 5068 model you mentioned. Both the 5288, and the 5521 list the same cam ring, part # 32096. Seems that even between these two models, there are many other internal differences, including the poppet valve, and the solenoid assembly. We have one DS4 on hand here, seems that when we have the opportunity, it will be good to tear it down. Thanks for the info D.P.:thumb:
 
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