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Discussion Starter #1
hello fellow diesel dudes. Ive been reading these forums for about a year now ever since i bought my first 6.5 td burb.This is a great forum and the info shared here is priceless. Thank you all for being here and helping each other learn about there rigs. My friend recently bought a grumman box van for his mobile auto maintenance service. its a late 94 grumman olson with a 6.5 non turbo in it .The P O was horizon airlines at sea tac airport. it has 82k on the odo.
the last pm was performed was an oil change where the tech put a shinny new filter on but neglected the refill the oil:bawl: It was driven out of the shop and promptly puked a few blocks down the street . No 1 conn rod is proudly sticking out of the side of the oil pan.

Fast forward to now . We found a good running 93 6.2 non turbo in a running driving blue bird school bus. The owner was wanting to repower the converted bus to a 7.3 powerstroke because he and his band travel a lot and the 6.2 just doesnt pull the mountain passes like he needs. he was waiting to pull the motor till the buyer could start and drive the bus to see that it ran well and check the vitals , oil pres, water temp and such. We checked it out and bought the motor. The guy gave us a smokin deal on it because we helped him pull it $300 and some sweat. Not bad.

We have since pulled the 6.5 boat anchor out of the Grumman and put in the 6.2. All components and sensors off the 6.5 are now on the 6.2 except the oil pump driver/ cam sensor? im not sure that its a cam sensor. we drained and pulled the fuel tank(it was FULL of red diesel) to make sure all was clean and blew out all the lines , checked for leaks and reinstalled the tank. the bus owner had just completed a maintenece on it fuel filters and air filter also recently installed new stock bosh injectors and glow plugs. and a recent round trip to portland proved it to be road worthy

So where we're at now is the test drive . We take a drive drive around the block. about a 4 mi loop with some down hill some flats and some up hill.

On the flats at about half throttle it runs great shifts proper and drives as it should. Clean exhaust and smooth running
when reaching the hill and trying to accelerate the tranny down shifts like it should the motor rpms increase but there is NO power to climb the hill and it smokes a lot with the throttle down

It feels like the timing is retarded. it doesnt stumble or run rough it just feels gutless . like a gasser that needs the timing advanced. like when you let off the go peddle slightly it seems to WANT to go better but it just falls on its face.

sorry its taking sooo long to get to my question but I thought some history would maybe answer some of the questions you may have.

Would the 93 6.2 cam sensor?need to be replaced with the one from the 95 6.5? Could this have any affect on fuel delivery? Ive been searching for this issue in related threads and so far no luck.
Im not sure if the inj pump needs to be timed because it ran in the bus to portland just a week before we pulled it.

Thanks to all who may reply. This is a real head scratcher for a couple of gear heads with very little diesel knowledge.
 

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Not too long winded at all. You would have gotten some more questions. Dropping the tank was good, how did the sock look? The red diesel is died only for off road use. At the airport id guess they fills it there to skate the on road taxation. Anyways that oil pump drive question I can not answer exact. I do know that the drive needs to be in place and a vacuum pump was located there on 6.2s. The bosch new injectors are correct and if bosch glow plugs were installed youre good. Those are the recommend replacement or ACDelco 60g. Ahh not the first time I've heard a 6.2 falling on its face up a grade. If youre not familiar with timing a 6.2 6.5 mechanical injection theres a couple different ways. I prefer the backyard approach:HiHi:
 

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The part that you have described is the engine speed sensor (ESS) this controls transmission shifting on mechanical IPs.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
any thoughts on the heavy smoke at WOT?
I neglected to mention the heavy white smoke on start up. But clears up soon and runs smoke free until you ask it to climb
 

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Hmmm, this be an interesting one. Are you running this with a mechanical IP or an electronic one? Also what part of WA are you in?
 

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any thoughts on the heavy smoke at WOT?
I neglected to mention the heavy white smoke on start up. But clears up soon and runs smoke free until you ask it to climb
The heavy smoke isn't good. New doesn't always= good. Verify all your glow plugs are getting power with an assistant. What is your glow time? Should be about 10
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi roadhog. yeah its all mechanical. the motor has 240 on it but well maintained school bus fleat. we installed a new fuel pump but it doesnt look like its had a new inj. pump . With that milage could the inj pump be getting tired. Do they get weaker as milage racks up or fail all at once.
the reason i ask is the P O complained of lack of power on hills.

we have a low mi inj pump to replace this one but we didnt want to just throw parts at it knowing it ran good for P O. and we wanted to get some pros to learn us up a little on things before pulling it all apart again.
 

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Mad (Sean) Max
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Sounds like an air flow problem to me...or a transmission/engine problem but I know nothing about the 4l80e

Could be timing. Get the engine up to temp, at least up passed 100* (or you could unplug the green wire on the inj pump) and press in on the advance lever and see what the result is

Did the engine change location...are you higher in elevation than the PO?

As JC says..could also be bad injectors, new doesn;t always mean good

Can you load the truck in any other way, say a heavy trailer and see of it smokes the same as when on a grade?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
smackzed thanks for stoppin by. Air flow?? New stock air filter and a good stock exhaust
so Im wondering what airflow problem?

iI like the idea of pressing the advance lever/ Its an alum box van with a dog house. With D H removed we can easily push it while driving. im going to try that. If it pulls better without smoking will that suggest a need to advance pump timing? Or maybe swap I P out with the spare low mi pump?

we're at about same elev. 500ft ASL.

we have the injectors from 80k mi boat anchor that we could swap . Maybe the PO did new inj trying to combat the low power on hills??? UGG to many unknowns.

Te grumman has no tow hitch. But poss have him pull me in my cummins dually with my foot on the brakes

thanks guys. Still workin on it. with all the help on here we should figure it out
 

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Ex- 6BT Square Body Man
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Which Injection pump are you using?

The 6.5 or 6.2 pump..
 

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The 6.5 mechanical pump puts out more fuel, that would explain smoke. But since you don't have that, that's probably not it.

As far as having 240 on the clock, I doubt it lasted that long in the bus, probably a reman engine, but that's just my gut talking.

You put all the sensors for the 4l80e on the new motor correct?
 

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Compression test???
 

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Discussion Starter #15
installedall sensors from the 6.5 non turbo engine in the grumman were put in the 6.2 from the bus except the ess. the bus was converted to an rv and had a 4l80e fit in it with computer. so we figured the ess was the same . am i assuming the wrong thing?

any thoughts about putting the 6.5 pump on the 6.2


thanks all. this information is great
 

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Can you post the number off of the 6.5 pump? It should start with either DS4 or DB2.
 

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Also, in my sig is a list of all known DB2 pump numbers paired with what they would have come in.
 

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Having never driven a n/a 6.5, I don't know how different it would be from a 6.2. Granted the 6.5 has a slightly larger displacement and the ip can provide more fuel.

But a 6.2 struggling up a hill isn't a surprise. Before I turbocharged my suburban, any slight incline was a pain and a lot of hills really kicked my butt... not to mention mountain passes with a top speed of 30 mph!

but an engine that puts out a peak 240 ft/lbs of torque would be a crab in a big box van.

I once tried to race a big moving truck from a red light... He didn't even know I was trying to outrun him and he still won.
 

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Mad (Sean) Max
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iI like the idea of pressing the advance lever/ Its an alum box van with a dog house. With D H removed we can easily push it while driving. im going to try that. If it pulls better without smoking will that suggest a need to advance pump timing? Or maybe swap I P out with the spare low mi pump?
Typically you push the advance lever while at idle. A bit of fishbiting means your about right, heavy shaking means too retarded and engine just slowing or a change in tone without any stumbling means too far advanced. advance lever actually retards timing...it's been explained to me a dozen times but I can never remember why

So air flow is likely good......try the anchor's injectors if it didn;t smoke with them

does it smoke at WOT on flat land? it could be a partly blocked return and it doesn't pass enough fuel when the go pedal is pushed?
 

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Ex- 6BT Square Body Man
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How fast were you going on the flat part and how much did your speed go down going up the hill?
 
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