Diesel Place banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Any of you guys out there ever check and find out the cetane rating of fuel your buying. I talked tothe local Shell Distributor Thursday and was told his input billing for the past four months shoewed the cetane rating was41+ a fraction to 44+ a fraction. Tomorrow I'll call Texaco and see what they will tel me. Talked to another ditributor here and the guy on duty figured I didn't need to know and wouldn't tell me anything. I'll stop buying thier brand. Have seen some stations in other states post the cetane rating on the pump just like octane ratings on gas pumps, wish they would all do that. Wonder oif there's a fedral law that says what the cetane rating must be. BG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
Just wondering what it should be?


And how do I know if it is winter rated?


I will be calling my Flying J to ask what I am using Edited by: PAUL3500
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,191 Posts
I fuel up 95% of the time at the same station and they don't have a cetane rating anywhere. Its only young guys and girls that work the pumps, and they have no idea. I'll have to wait until the owner is there one day.


They do a busy truck volume so I don't worry about the quality. I get a 17-19 mpg mixed driving and I use additives. 2 bottles of Stanadyne left, then I'm switching over to Primrose 409 for the winter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Bill, In the article referenced in the other thread that you started titled "Fuel Information" the author of the article made the following comments:


Diesel at the pump can be found in two cetane (CN) ranges: 40-46 for regular diesel, and 45-50 for premium. The minimum CN at the pump is supposed to be 45. The legal minimum cetane rating for #1 and #2 diesel is 40. But, the CN rating at the diesel pump can be anywhere from 42-46. Thats why there is almost never a sticker on a diesel fuel pump for CN.


Because there are no legal standards for premium diesel yet, it is very hard to know if you are buying the good stuff. I have good news. An ASTM task force has drafted standards for premium diesel. When the new specifications are accepted, information will have to be posted on the fuel pump. Retailers will no longer be allowed to label cheap blended diesel as premium. They will have separate pumps with clear labels on both informing the customer what is being sold. The marketing and labeling will be the same as with regular and premium gasoline. Retailers selling the real thing use this system now. Enforcement of all fuel standards is done at the state level in the USA.


Since there is no date on the article we have no way of knowing when it was written. It appears to have been written some time back since in the closing statement of the article the last line reads "The EPA should formally set something by year 2000." referencing new emissions standards for gasoline and diesel.


Dale
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Dale I noticed to, that the article wasn't dated but by reference it could be be dated prior to year 2000. Your info sounds like good news. I would guess that such actions will probaly lead to higher prices. I live in San Antonio, a very large town and have been able to find only one station that carries premium diesel.I'm sure there's probaly more premium stations though. Its so far out on my way that I seldom go there. My neighbor is running 3 tractors with Detroit Diesels and tells me premium is hard to find in the south but is more plentiful in the north. I do notice as much as 1 1/2 mpg difference in some brands and that varies sometimes to. My grandson is on the road a lot with his dodge diesel and says he sees wide variance in mpg by brand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,923 Posts
The pump I have been filling up at has a cetane of 50 sticker..... drives me crazy cause I know it is not.... Well , I dont know it, but suspect it is just normal diesel...... A lot of people swear by this station.... That it takes away smoke at startup and has cleaned out thier injectors.... All cause of that little sticker...... I may do a test with it soon...... Just for fun..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
As indicated, current federal minimum cetane number standards for #2 diesel fuel is 40. My beautiful crystal clear (as in water!) BP Diesel Supreme has a cetane index of 50.. Cetane numbers can thus be found anywhere between 40 and 55. And during last winter there was some European reject fuel that was showing up in the northeast with cetane index in the mid 30's! And there were Amoco stations advertising Supreme on their pumps yet had a cetane index of 41..
From the fuel ananalysis results I have reviewed from around the country, the 'average' fuel is in the 42 to 44 cetane index range, with very, very few in teh 46 to 50 cetane index range. It isn't cheap, I realize, but it is nice to 'know' exactly what you are putting in your tank from your regular supplier by doing a fuel analysis. Sometimes it can be surprising/shocking..
George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,923 Posts
George....


Do the gas stations have anything tested.... or is there a sheet they get with each tank to see what they are getting.... Seems it would be cheaper to get to know the owner, if they are getting that kinda info...


If someone were to check up on your gas station how ofter should the fuel be checked...


Thanks
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,541 Posts
Captain of a fishing boat out of Lewis DE a few weeks ago running twin CATs said the whole area got a bad load over the summer. Screwed up lot's of injectors. Many had their tanks pumped.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
This is the amazing part of all of this. YOU have 100% more knowledge of diesel fuel, its qualities (or lack thereof) than anyone associated with selling/dispensing diesel fuel on up through probably a VP level for a fuel producer! Sellers do nothing but go to the rack, load up, and the only single thing they are concerned with is making sure that gallons are dot on.. Nothing else..
No one, not even the major truck stop sellers, are checking for delivered quality (cetane index, water content, dirt content). Nor are the major buyers such as trucking companies who purchase millions of gallons a week! They are blindly assuming that what they are getting meets federal standards for on highway diesel fuel.
I work with fleets that sample every drop of oil that goes through their diesel engines. Oil purchases are less than 4% of their annual budget yet diesel fuel is not sampled, checked and it is 80% of their budgets!
Incredible, is it not?
George Morrison
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
bill, do you have a technical date on the difference of cetane rating and cetane index. Most of my friend and I were confused on which will represent the quality of fuel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
994 Posts
The Cetane Number is a quantity that is measured directly using lab test equipment.


The Cetane Index is a derived quantity. It is calculated by measuring other parameters of the diesel fuel. There are several different ASTM standards for calculating cetane index.


When I had my fuel analyzed by AVLUBE to evaluate the performance of my supplemental filter, particle count along with cetane index, API gravity, distillation, water and other parameters were reported to me. My assumption is that the lab measured directly API Gravity and the Mid-boiling point (distillation) of the diesel fuel. From that they calculated a Cetane Index.


So if available, Cetane Number should be the more accurate quantity.


I have read some of the related ASTM standards (that are available to me at my work). I believe the above to be an accurate description. If you want more information I would suggest that you reference the ASTM website and look-up ASTM Standard D976 for starters.





Regards,


Alan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,556 Posts
George is right on the haulers. I hauled for 6 months. I could tell you how to mix alcohol with gas to get various octane ratings but the diesel rack had three pipes #1, #2, and #2 premium. The heating oil haulers filled up with the same pipes and the additive tanks were 100+ yards from the rack so the first gallons loaded may not even have the ones you programmed in if any. Never did know what cetane the diesel pipes had.


I don't know enough about refinining to say but one of the persons who ran the mixing said with all the computer controls they had a hard time keeping the octane down to 87 on gasoline even adding in the maximum allowed water etc. A lot of 87 rated was really closer to 90. Not sure if technology helps diesel as much.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top