Diesel Place banner

1 - 20 of 221 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I mean to bring no disrespect to the owner of this site. I know there are already some great filters being sold here on this site. The Diesel Place. In my never ending search for truth I thought it was neccasary to mention this product. I have no idea if it is any good or actually hurts your vehicle. There is some talk that air might be corroding some of the internals on our Dmax's. Has anybody ever used this product before? http://www.westerndiesel.com/performance-diesel/fass/fass-fuel-air-separation-system.html Edited by: Bronco
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,621 Posts
Mackin said:
Check the prices on this .... Preporator





Mac




Mac, last time I talked to the guys out at Preporator they were looking at $400 & change for a Dmax set up. The units they advertise are for big rigs and are more $$$.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The F.A.S.S. is 649.00. If this system increased your fuel milage by 1 mile per galon. and your avg. fuel price is 1.50 per gallon and your avg. fuel milage is 15m.p.g. it would take 69,500 miles to pay for it. This is from a fuel milage point of view.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,995 Posts
Bronco, they say 45 hp increase for the Dmax w/ FASS system??


Who's going to be the tester?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,262 Posts
Thanks for the heads up on price ...


Anyone ever get the specs on the system flow rate and working pressure,internal bypass ,any adjustable pressure regulator or preset??


Problem is with that system a final filter is still needed ...


45 HP WOW Bronco watch the warranty police ....


Mac
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
45 HP increase I will add 3 of them for a total of...
Lets see: a wopping 135 hp increase, No juce needed now.
cost $1947.00. oops slightly more than the juce...
and it will take 208500 miles to pay for it.

Well I do plan on keeping my DMax for a while.

Out of a 10 micron filter how do you get a 45 HP increase, can someone explain?

Patrick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
958 Posts
I guess that by filtering the air from the fuel it's getting a richer fuel supply.. I guess if your air intake is adequate, theoretically in my simple mind a slight performance increase might be made. I'd have to see 45hp to believe it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
35 HP, Well let's see the sticker alone should be worth at least 15 or 20 right? So another 15 or 20 just from hype should do it. Maybe if we put that magnet on the fuel line we'll ge another 10 or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
Sounds Interesting. Has anyone use this yet? Worth the cost? How often are the filters replaced? How does the pump hold up? Where do you mount it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
The FASS only filters as it is setup to 10 micron. Zero benefit for us unless you change the filters. It is rated at 140GPH at 0 PSI so what will it flow at 10 PSI? I don't know since they do not give that data in their spec sheets but I have doubts it would serve as a complete lift pump solution that the high HP trucks need.


I looked at one at the Suncoast event. It looks to be built pretty well but I did not see where you could regulate the pressure on it (I probalbly just missed it) and I just don't know how well it will work on our trucks. I am sure some enterprising tester will let us know.


45 additional HP? Sheeeuuuuree.
The boys over on the TDR dyno'ed one and they LOST a few HP in the equation.


I would stick with a 2 Mic pre or post solution any day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
I am going to try to answer some of the questions being posted here about the FASS System.


The FASS System removes dirt, (3 or 10 micron filtration is available), water and entrained air/vapor. When most engine manufactures are testing their engines for horsepower, emission and etc. they have the fuel at optimum conditions. What I mean by that is the fuel is pre-filter, the fuel is at an optimum temperature and the fuel has virtually no air/vapor present.


The test cell is usually set up with the fuel tank at least 12 feet above the engine and the fuel is not being agitated (traveling down the road). The fuel has usually been there for some time which gives the entrained air plenty of time to escape. The return fuel from the engine is usually routed to another fuel tank, also not causing agitation. With this set up there is virtually no air/vapor in the fuel.


Compare this to your condition. The fuel tank is below the engine and at least several feet back. The fuel pump on the engine has to draw the fuel up with a vacuum. Whenever a liquid is under a vacuum air/vapor will be produced, hotter fuel produces more vapor. Now you start traveling down the road, you just introduced agitation which entraines air into the fuel. Agitation is usually what introduces the largest amounts of air into fuel. The longer you travel the more entrained air. Now how much fuel is in the fuel tank and what is the temp. of the fuel? These 2 variables will also determine how much air can be present in the fuel.


Caterpillar admits there is at least 10% air/vapor in fuel. Go to any troubleshooting manual and look under topics such as: low horsepower, poor fuel mileage, hard starts, inconsistent performance, excessive smoke and the list goes on. Under each one of these topics you will find 2 common possible problems, air in fuel or fuel restriction. Remember fuel restriction creates air/vapor.


To understand how air/vapor effects your engine you have to think of your fuel system as a hydraulic system, which it is. If you ever had air in the brake system on your car or truck it delays the braking of that vehicle. Well, it does the same to your fuel system. The reason for fuel injection is to inject a predetermined amount of fuel at a predetermined time. Air/vapor effects both of those. Air/vapor occupies space so you do not get the predetermined amount of fuel and air/vapor is also compressible so you do not get the predetermined time of the fuel being injected. Air/vapor delays the injection timing by milli-seconds. If you change the timing of any engine be it gas or diesel you will change the performance of that engine!


For the damage air/vapor causes to an injection system. Fuel is a lubricant. When air/vapor is in the place of fuel it can cause metal on metal contact. This is known as gaulding and scoring. Also when an air bubble goes from a low pressure to a high pressure condition implosion can occur. This situation can actually cause metal to be removed from injection components. Both of these effects the tolerance of injection components over a period of time to deteriorate.


We are about 2 - 3 weeks away from completing the kit for the Duramax. We believe the price will be around the same as the Dodge and the Ford kits which MSRP at $589.00.


We have put one on a Duramax and the individual loves it. He say's his fuel mileage is up a little over 1mpg, it is quiter and he can really tell a difference when he goes to pass some one. That is the best we have for horsepower numbers.


The FASS System will flow about 144gph at 10 - 18psi. This pressure can be adjusted. The pump is usually good for at least 600,000 miles. The water separator is basically a lifetime filter because it is sevicable. The fuel filter usually has a life of 30 - 50,000 miles. Cost on the fuel filter is $24.00 and the water separator is $18.50. The FASS System mounts beneath the bed of the truck on the outside of the frame
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Hello Brad,


I have really enjoyed the phone conversations and emails that we have had. I am starting to develop a complete understanding of the product you are marketing. I was going to keep our discussions private, however since you opened up the floor on a public forum I thought I would take the time to ask you some questions.


First, let me make my current standings knowin to all. The Fass and Preporator both contain an exceptionaly high quality lift pump, water separator and fuel filter. These items alone have value. They will provide you with clean, water free fuel and lots of it!


My questions to you are more directed to the claims of horepower increase and entrained air removal. First, It is my understanding that your product provides much more benifit to fuel systems that are not so modern. Will we really see a big HP increase and emmisions reduction on a HPCR type system? I am not talking about HP gains from a lift pump. I am talking about HP gains due to he claim of more accurate timing. It is my understanding the high pressure common rail type systems were designed to eliminate this very issue?


Secondaly, Is your air separation technique as thourough as the Preporators? It is my understanding the Preporator uses a primary removal and a secondary removal system. While the Fass only uses the secondary type system?


Finally, many here have expressed concern about your lift pump not being adequate. Knowing the type of pumps these units use I see just the opposite. These type of pumps move some serious fuel. Have you done any testing too insure we are not overfeeding our system?


If I add up the cost of a high quality lift pump(200.00) Regulator(50.00) Filter/head (75.00) water separator/head(75.00) and plumbing/electrical (50.00) I come up with 450.00. Add a convience factor of 50.00 and that takes me to 500.00 even. With out the entrained air removal and HP increase I really cannot justify the additional expence of either the Turbo Fass and ecspecially the higher priced Preporator.


I understand the Preporator is a very good product for old systems. I am just not sure how your Fass is benificial for our Dmax, other than the previously mentioned items: Lift pump, water separator and fuel filter?


Thank you,


JeffEdited by: Bronco
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,300 Posts
Add 1 micron filtering @ 100% and you have something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,715 Posts
have one installed bought it for fuel supply issues and for now it seems to deliver. Not a hard install replaced my fm100. 3 micron filter on order. I purchased it for the volume it can supply.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Problem Child,


It is my understanding that due to the enormous amount of fuel that will be recirculated, the end result will be very clean fuel. Also the filters they choose are very good filters as well and they perform very well under these circumstances. Hopefully Brad(Fass) or Charles(Preporator) will chime in and address some of our questions!Edited by: Bronco
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Sdaver,


Did you buy the Fass or Preporator? Did it come with plumbing or did you make the kit yourself? It is my understanding that both manufactures are still in the ptype stage. Preporator will actually be changing there model to smaller laydown stlye configuration vs. the upright lift pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,715 Posts
fass.............parts fittings $40
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
These are good questions and I will do my best to answer them.


I would like to answer the easiest question first. We now have the complete kit for the Duramax as we do have for the Dodge and Fords. The only item you will need for completing the kit will be wire ties. The complete kit is only $589.00!!


At this time I cannot give any numbers on horsepower because we simply do not have them. The only thing I can tell you is that the individual that has it on his Duramax can tell a big difference when he goes to pass someone. Plus the FASS System lowered his engine noise dramatically and improved his fuel mileage.


One thing I do know about the common rail and the new fuel systems is they do not remove air.


The fuel pump on the FASS System is usually good for at least 600 - 800,000 miles.


I cannot go into how we remove air/vapor from fuel at this time, this is directly from our patent attorney's office. What I can tell you is I have been involved with the Fuel Preporator from about 1992 to 2002. I discovered any easier/different way to removed air/vapor from fuel about 5 - 6 years ago. This process also allowed us to improve the new product over the old and drastically reduce the price. I would like to make this clear "The Fuel Preporator is a good product", I believe with the experiences that we have had our product is a little better.


Brad Ekstam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,262 Posts
Brad

What is the availability of spin on filters ?? What comes standard for micron rating ?? How do you feel on running a 30 ish in front of the pump and 2 micron aft ?? Will it affect the units performance or ability ??

TIA

Mac
 
1 - 20 of 221 Posts
Top