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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Guys build the bottom end first. We've pushed the Dmax far enough to find the limit. Most any responsible vendor will agree that 600RWHP+ is going to catch up to you unless you beef it up. It's not a question of if, but when. Much better than picking up the pieces. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to sell more twin CP3's and turbo kits, but I don't want to be blowing up engines. A nice 450-500 RWHP setup will serve you well and live much longer.

Yes I've run 700+ successfully as have others, but look around and you'll see they are starting to fall. We've heard the year of the LLY and the year of the LBZ. Let's not make this the year of kaboom.

Flame suit on...

Forgot nitrous in the title.
 

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anybody that thinks the flame suit is needed is mistaken. There are the lucky ones, but all the new bolt on's are gonna kill these motors. Its cheaper the first time around for rods etc then having to replace block etc.
 

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I'm assuming this thread is in response to the thread with the bolt on garrett kit? It would seem to me that if you're going to do a mod that significantly increases your boost you would have to first lower compression. Goes without saying that the amount of power you're talking about requires a built tranny.
 

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I dont feel it has anything to do with the Garrett kit, just an overall view. As more and more big trucks get built with out paying attention to the internals, we will hear more and more about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
jollyrogr;1579394; said:
I'm assuming this thread is in response to the thread with the bolt on garrett kit? It would seem to me that if you're going to do a mod that significantly increases your boost you would have to first lower compression. Goes without saying that the amount of power you're talking about requires a built tranny.
Consider it a public service announcement. At one point I felt many of the engine failures were guys getting stupid or poor tuning, or nasty nitrous, but we are seeing it more and more. To top that all off, we have many first time diesel owners coming into this and seeing "recipes" for big power not fully aware of the potential consequences. I don't think the LBZ improvements will be that significant, but only time will tell...
 

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Biggest of what you're saying is rods/pistons, correct? What about heads, cam&rods,crank? Are guys replacing them for the benefits or are these something we can expect to see fail as well? In YOUR honest opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Rods seem to be the first weak link followed by the pistons. Time will tell what comes next. Heads cam etc are for HP purposes.

P.S. If you build a core engine before making junk you'll have 2 engines (one built and one spare) when you are done. ;)
 

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I could see running rods but you guys are installing LBZ pistons in your build ups other then being stock piston std or .20 over mybe coated what would be the gain swaping lbx pistons for lbz pistons.
 

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jollyrogr;1579394; said:
I'm assuming this thread is in response to the thread with the bolt on garrett kit? It would seem to me that if you're going to do a mod that significantly increases your boost you would have to first lower compression. Goes without saying that the amount of power you're talking about requires a built tranny.

Big boost is not needed on the LBZ's to make good power....
 

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[email protected];1579781; said:
Big boost is not needed on the LBZ's to make good power....
No its not, but you wouldn't want to combine big boost and too much compression either. LBZ's have an advantage in that area I guess. The new LMM's have even lower compression.

The General better start beefing up the Ally's before they leave the factory.
 

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Kennedy;1579365; said:
Guys build the bottom end first. We've pushed the Dmax far enough to find the limit. Most any responsible vendor will agree that 600RWHP+ is going to catch up to you unless you beef it up. It's not a question of if, but when. Much better than picking up the pieces. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to sell more twin CP3's and turbo kits, but I don't want to be blowing up engines. A nice 450-500 RWHP setup will serve you well and live much longer.

Yes I've run 700+ successfully as have others, but look around and you'll see they are starting to fall. We've heard the year of the LLY and the year of the LBZ. Let's not make this the year of kaboom.

Flame suit on...

Forgot nitrous in the title.
:agreed: IMHO if your running around 500hp daily, your on the jagged edge, its a crap shoot 50/50 chance of living or dying. 600+ daily driving you're on borrowed time, and it won't be if, it will be when that thing needs to be rebuilt. Alot of people or finding out the hard way, and now having to spend some $$$ to get that ride up and running again..........its been almost 2 years and i haven't forgot this valuable lesson, too bad it was 500 miles away from home when it happened.

No flame suit needed in this thread John, if anyone denies it or doesn't agree, they're just lying to themselves and they'll eventually pay in the end.
 

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John

I'm glad you and other's are seeing the same thing we have been here. We've said it for along time 500 RwHp and it's at the edge. This is the reason we make people sign a wavier for our big programming. It's not that it cannot be done but that it will cost you in one form or another. The rods are the weakest link and we've solved that one. The next weak link is going to be a toss up between head gasket sealing and pistons. With what we can do today the head gaskets can be helped with studs and /or o-rings but once that happens I think the piston and rod bearing may start to show itself more often. The LBZ rod is slightly stronger than the LB7/LLY ones but do not fool yourself into thinking that makes the problem go away.
 

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any smart operator would take advantage of a switchable tune setup and not run at high levels each and every outing, do you need 500 to go to the market?:rolleyes:
 

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locknload;1580279; said:
any smart operator would take advantage of a switchable tune setup and not run at high levels each and every outing, do you need 500 to go to the market?:rolleyes:
Very true. 95% of the time I ran a tow tune(which was still enough for most of the comp. on the street)

I'll be working on the set-up of the chassis, tires, etc. this go around to help improve my et's and not increaseing to huge power. This new one should be a bit better than the last one, but won't be anywhere near the fastest Dmax out there. I can live with that.
 

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I agree 100%. This has been a HUGE topic of disscusion on my front lately. I run a very conservative tune nearly all the time. I do not even have a BIG tune loaded into my truck. You put the power to it, it will fail...great point!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm not to concerned about the 500HP area, it's when we go to 600+ that things get dicey.

I have one customer who ran at 500RWHP added twin pumps and turbo, no tweaks to the tune and kaboom. Truck was in one truck pull months back at 500RWHP. No other competition.

And no I am not an engine builder trying to sell engines. I'll leave that up to someone else. Weve already seen too many failed engine projects so I'm on the sidelines for a bit until things evolve to where I am comfortable with the products available.
 

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Kennedy;1580439; said:
I'm not to concerned about the 500HP area, it's when we go to 600+ that things get dicey.

I have one customer who ran at 500RWHP added twin pumps and turbo, no tweaks to the tune and kaboom. Truck was in one truck pull months back at 500RWHP. No other competition.

And no I am not an engine builder trying to sell engines. I'll leave that up to someone else. Weve already seen too many failed engine projects so I'm on the sidelines for a bit until things evolve to where I am comfortable with the products available.
I am on the sidelines too! :D ;)

We pushed the ever living snot out of mine doing some good product testing and development while trying to make a 2WD compete with the 4WD trucks. All things considered I got everything I could have asked for and more. It will be interesting to see where the wear and breakage occurred on mine and I think the round two engine will be fun to build...
 
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