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I saw the commercial about the 590 ft lb of torque, and I guess having that at the same RPM would put the revised Duramax right up there with the CTD in the torque department. At least, that's what the numbers say. Has anybody towed with them both, and do they feel equal? Can you tell much difference in the new Dmax and the old one?
 

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I don't think Ford or GM can compete with the low end torque of the Cummins off the line. That's why they can't keep an automatic transmission in them. Dodge says the new Cummins has 600 ft lbs. at 325 hp. It's a great motor, too bad it has to come in a Dodge.
 

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Yea, that is the waste of a good motor. I think the 6 banger will always have more torque than a equal sized V-8 but the top end will be less powerfull.
 

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I think there are two points I can add to this.


First, The LLY/ALLI combo does boast 590 ft. Lb., but those numbers ONLY apply to second, third and forth gears.
First and Fith gears remain at the previous figures, I believe 510 ft. Lb. So, to fairly answer your question it would be hard to say there is a BIG improvement in low end "grunt". The NEW turbo does offer better responce and faster spool up, which does help, but the only time I have pulled a load I have to say there was no big "WOW" from my mouth. Top speed in 5th gear was the same as my LB7 was with the same load. To be fair, I don't own a D*dge, so I can not give you the comparison you requested.


And second, from what I understand the new 600 HP D*dge has a new Auto tranny behind it that is supposed to "solve their unending transmission problems". So we will see if it can hold up to the new power they claim to put out.





I am very ready to run the JUICE through the veins of my new truck!!



I do love my truck, the new LLY/Alli combo is as smooth as you can imagine, and it feels like someone hits the NOS when it hits second gear. Edited by: CrincoMax
 

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I don't know if you would feel much difference between the two. It does impress me that the Cummins doesn't use an EGR to meet emmission standards. But they do it with a 3 injection event, which helps emission but from what I'm hearing it is killing there MPG's. New engine has about a 5% decrease in MPG. That's not going to make the Dodge boys happy, cause they really like to tell you what great mileage their pickup gets. Anyway I'll take the whole package(body,interior,ride and engine) and that leaves me with a GM product, so I guess each to their own.
 

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I think that the two are so close that the difference could be decided by transmission/gear ratio efficiency. With all the power mods available it's not hard to tip the scale either way.


kbrowns is right about the 3 injection event, but I will also add that it causes higher EGTs. Things may change when the new 325/600 has been out for a while but right now it looks like the Dmax is the best choice for someone wanting to add power (assuming the LLYs are similar to the LB7s in that respect). And from my (albiet very limited) perspective the new auto tranny isn't going to hold up very well. I already know of one that was destroyed while running an Edge box. It could have been a fluke, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. --SS
 

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i'm with blue max, so instead of just a engine around a crappy truck maybe they will have an engine and trans around a crappy truck.


john


02 3500 cc lb 4x4 lt


38' prowler quad slides 14100lb's loaded
 

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Ok first off I don't own an LLY nor do I own a Cummins 600. But I would like to correct people who are unfairly commenting about Dodge trucks as being pieces of junk or something. Yes the dodges of the 80's and eartly 90's were junk but since the intitial redesign in 94 their problems and short comings are no more severe than Ford or Chevy. If it were me buying a new truck I would go for the LLY because I like the carlikeness of the GM's as well as the empty acceleration that comes with a V8 diesel. However when it comes to being a heavy duty pickup I think it is widely known that GM's are on at the bottom of the pack. As far as trannies go yes up until the 48re Dodge didn't have a tranny worth sh*t, however up until the Duramax chevy didn't have a diesel worth beans either. Not trying to start a flame war, I just get sick of seeing posts unfairly stereotyping pickups for there faults from more than 10 years prior.
 

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I keep hearing all this b/s from people that read too much and have no idea about real world facts. The 48RE is just as big a p/s as the 47RE. It's the same trans guys. Actually, the 47RE trans rarely goes bad; it's the weak torque converter. If the big 3(GM, Ford, Chrysler) put heavy duty converters in their diesels, you would not be hearing all this stuff about failures. Ford puts a bigger trans cooler in the V10 than the powerstroke.Go figure
As far as Dodge trucks go; they are pretty hefty, they ride very ruff, their differentials are always noisey, and weird things happens to Dodges as far as failures. I have one in my shop right now, brand new '04 HD auto. I think it's a good truck but lacks the fun factor of my Duramax. I also could never get used to an engine that had a 2K rpm working perameter.
 

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Only thing I know about a dodge is that my dakota I traded in to get this wonderful artwork of steel and iron, grenaded it's tranny at 43,000 miles. Somethings wrong when a tranny behind a V6 dies at that many miles... can't imagine what the bigger tranny's must be like.
 

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Ah Kbunch a #'s Dodges junk.


Just ask anyone thats owned one!
 

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If Dodge REALLY had a stout automatic in production, why didn't they put one in the SRT-10 Truck? Answer? Dodge will release the auto version of the truck WHEN they locate a transmission that can deal with it.


Dodge is aware of the problem. They will probably resolve it soon. But it's hard for them to justify building a HD Trans that will only be used for 2 models with relatively low sales #'s. Neither Allison or Ford is going to license the existing 5-sp's to them.


My hunch is that they will find a Mercedes truck auto that will fit the bill and use that. But it will be too little, too late. Both Ford and GM have a large head start, and up to now, the only diesel Dodge offered to California (the largest truck market in the US) has been a 235HP model with a hefty price tag. Plus the lack of a true Club Cab has stopped them from being a serious contender in the "luxury" HD Pickup market.


Cummins has an excellent engine for sale. Dodge just needs to come up with a truck to put it in. They don't have one yet.
 

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To all of you that think Dodges are all junk, my previous truck was a 99 Quadcab and while I owned it for 3 years and 36k miles, nothing went wrong with it. However, the tranny was pure junk and I ended up rebuilding it with BD torque converter and valve body. After that the tranny was OK, still not good or great.


Just as a side note, a friend just bought a 2004 Dodge with the 600 engine and auto trans. He is extremely unhappy with his mpg. Around town he gets 12 mpg, best he has gotten on the freeway was 15 mpg. Not a happy camper.
 

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I might as well add my .02 worth here. I have always favored GM products, however, I have owned several Dodge products(If someone had told me 20 years ago I would own a Dodge, I would have told them they were absolutely nuts)91,94,96,98,01,03, all with Cummins and manual transmissions. In all fairness, I have had less problems with the Dodge. I have had nothing major with GM, just minor annoying things. I traded a 2003 1 ton dually Dodge cummins for the current Duramax. Reason, I sold my 5th. wheel travel trailer. The dually is tough to get around in town and just did not need it anymore. The Cummins definitely will outpull the Duramax with a load. I have only had 5 or 6 speed transmissions so I can't comment on the auto's.


Things I did not like about the Dodge were:


Road noise


Less room in rear seat


Mini van dash


Fuel mileage-16 on highway-much less in town


Things I liked:


Cummins


More storage in cab area


Flat fold down platform in rear seat area


I definitely like the room in the rear of the GMC, I do not like the the way the seats fold down, have to have the front up too far in order to get the area flat. I like the ride and comforts of the GMC much better. If Gm had not come out with the D-Max and Allison I would still be riding in a Dodge.


All in all, I believe each has it's own advantages and disadvantages.


One other point I would like to comment on. If I were pulling a big 5th wheel like one I saw pictured on this forum squatting in the rear hooked up, I would most definitely have a dually. I have had both and there is no comparison in the handling of the dually with a large load.


I do like my new ride, I just hope I have not traded dependability for a headache(injector problem).
 

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MCRAT WROTE; ONLY 235 HP CUMMINS AVAIL. FOR CALIFORNIA,


I WAS TOLD THE SAME WHEN I WENT DIESEL SHOPPING IN MASSACHUSETTS.


I LOOKED AT THE CUMMINS H.O. RATINGS , ASKED THE SALES GUY HOW MUCH FOR THE TRUCK? HE SAYS ( OH , YOU CANT GET THOSE IN MASS, CUZ THEY DONT PASS EMISSIONS!!!!!!) I SAID ( ARE YOU SERIOUS??) THIS WAS 04, I HAVE SEEN H.O'S IN OLDER TRUCKS.



ANYONE??????


GLAD I BOUGHT GM SO FAR!!!!
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I really get fed up with the Ford and Dodge fans claiming that they are heavier duty and tow more, etc., etc. Have any of you checked the tow rating and gross vehicle weight ratings for GM and compared it to the others. GM wins when you stay legal. That also tells me that they will likely win when you are towing illegal. It is all about gears, HP, torque, spring, frames, brakes and wheels/tires. They will all get the job done. Put them in the mud and rough terrain there may be a slight diff in some factor but don't go to believing that F and D being higher off the ground to climb into makes it better off road. Ground clearance in the lowest point which is the differential housing to the ground in most cases. Taller tires will affect that.


If F and D are so good in rough terrain and a better heavy duty truck maybe you should talk to the thousands of ranchers and farmers in west and north Texas and find out why the drive GM HD trucks. Ford is not #1 except in the F-150 girlie car magazines and that is from the girls themselves.
 

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As NWDmax stated, ask just about any one that has the Cummins equipped truck. I would bet that 40% if not more that I talk too say they love the Cummins, but the truck itself is pretty much junk.


My nephew has an 99 one ton just turned over 100,000 miles, and on the forth tranny, same thing with a co-workers 01 61,000 miles third tranny. Albeit they both have after market injectors. (I believe they are around 100 hp) Both of these trucks have gone through the factory fuel pump, roters, brakes, rear end and a few other odds and ends. And the is with, What? less then 300 rwhp?


Getting back on topic; The GM truck will wiegh several hundred pounds less then an equally equipped Dodge, So the hp and tq deffernce will not mean squat in the real world. Buy what you like as long as the wife says it is ok, and everything will be fine.
 

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I can tell you that my LLY will flat out run and out pull the HO Cummins. Just ran a test with a friend that has the HO and it was no contest. I do have a catback exhaust and modified PCM
and so does he on his HO.
 
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