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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is a long post split into two parts because of forum image count limitations. It will be of interest to anyone who has ever thought about a water mist injection system either for the purpose of lower EGT's, lower IAT's or increased fuel mileage. It uses only a few parts that I actually hard to order online (mainly the nozzles and boost switch), and mostly uses parts that can be found on the shelf at your local air/hydraulic shop, agriculture or RV supply, and/or hardware store.

This thread is a follow up to a lengthy discussion of water mist injection on the 6.5 from this thread:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417460

After deciding to take a pass on a hydrogen injection system (because of widely publicized detonation issue with HHO and the 6.5) my attention turned to WMI - Water Mist Injection.

I wanted the system primarily for it's fuel economy benefits, with lower EGT's/IAT's and engine cooling benefits while towing also in mind - I spend a LOT of time towing every summer with double trailers and IAT's have always been a challenge, with engine cooling also being a challenge on some long/extreme grades. Although the fuel economy aspect has never been studied in depth with the 6.5 in specific, a moderate MPG improvement with injecting water alone has been proven in other diesels. In the end, this system amounted to a huge experiment.

I looked around at many, many options for kits..and it all came back to $$$$ - it was easy to spend well over $500-$750 or more for a full optioned kit. Hoping for a 1-3MPG fuel economy outcome, the return on investment was WAY too long. I knew I could source some parts (mainly, the nozzles) from WMI suppliers, and get most of the rest off the shelf locally...so this is the way I went.

- The tanks were obtained for free from one of my customers at work- score big $$$ savings right there. These are LARGE tanks, but given how I intend to have the system active quite a lot (not just while pulling grades like many setup their system for) I need to carry a considerable amount of water since my system will be basically injecting 100% of the time while the wheels are turning. With some resourcefulness it's possible to pickup something to carry your water at little or no cost.

- I decided to use small PEX plastic line to feed from my water tank(s) in the bed of my truck. This was the same line that WMI kits use beyond the compressor/pump anyways, so I saw no reason to not use it for the ENTIRE system. Benefit: 50 foot roll for $11.

- The couplers, fittings, quick connectors, etc were all sourced from my local Princess Auto. For the USA members, I'm guessing there is an equivalent store with the same assortment. I spent a surprising amount of money on all of the above (probably about $50) but I ended up with a very modular system as a result - nothing is difficult to replace - if a line is damaged somehow I can zip it out and replace it entirely in about mere minutes.

- I opted to use a solenoid from Princess Auto as well to ensure positive water flow cutoff. $20, versus $40 or more from WMI suppliers online, not including shipping. Solenoid was specifically specified to handle liquids as well as air - important, since some are rated air-only.

- Most importantly, the pump. I utilized a simple agricultural pump capable of 75 PSI maximum. AG-Pumps are built to withstand chemicals (versus an RV pump which is not) so should I decide to add alcohol to my system later it won't be a problem.

Yes, 75 PSI is MUCH lower than most pumps for WMI kits generate, but I was very careful to ensure that I spec'd the nozzles accordingly, and was able to find a supplier that assured me their nozzles misted fully at only 40 PSI above boost levels. Since I run about 13 PSI Boost max, I only needed a pump capable of generating at least 53 PSI (simple math), so 75 works just fine.

Sure enough, when bench testing, even at only 30 PSI of water pressure (before we turned the pump up) it provided an excellent fine mist from the nozzles.

Benefit: Only cost $99. I kick myself for having missed it on sale as only a week or two back it was on sale for $79! The USA based members can probably find these pumps for $60-$80 routinely, I suspect.

The only thing I ordered from a WMI supply house was the nozzles, and a simple boost control switch. Total cost was around $25.

I opted for 3 nozzles, with intention of running two at a time, with one of those two on a shut-off valve. I ordered a 10GPH, a 5GPH, and a 7GPH. We used the 10 and the 5 to begin with and the 7 was for experimentation purposes.

So, this afternoon, once again with fellow DP member Racer55 (and his most excellent workshop!) we started the install. Lets get started with the pics:

My water jugs. Not bad for free, and they fit nicely in front of and behind my fifth wheel. The bed rails for the fifth wheel, along with some cheap ratchet straps make for perfect (and easy) mounting in the bed of the truck.



Here they are mounted in the bed. Excuse the bed, it's rather dirty, picture was taken at night and I hadn't cleaned things up, but you get the idea. A 2x4 to keep them aligned, and a few ratchet straps looped through my fifth wheel bed rails and they are secure.



Quick-connector threaded into the bung of one of my water jugs:



As mentioned, these were the sorts of fittings that added cost to my build, but they have the huge advantage of being easily connected/disconnected and making the system 100% modular.

Removed intake manifold in preparation for drilling the holes for the nozzles:



The intake manifold gasket was just fine upon removal. Ironically I did have a spare around my garage somewhere, but couldn't find it when I looked. Never needed it afterall.

Manifold off and center punched in prep for drilling:



Pump out of box, getting ready to hookup gauge to check pressure and then to bolt in.



Another view of the pump with the pressure regulator at the end. Notice more quick connect fittings:



Here's the relay I used to feed power to the entire kit and kaboodle. For those who remember my ill-fated glowplug override circuit, this is the same relay. It was still under my hood and wired to a switch on my dash, so it was screaming to be repurposed. Saved me some wiring.



So, I ran the PEX line through the same hole in the front of my bed that my fifth wheel electrical wiring goes through. Here's the spare I had - as you can see, 50 feet goes a long way. Yes, my truck bed is a mess - I had just dropped off a load of garbage at the dump on the way up to Racer's. :p:



PEX line heading forward:



I ended up running the line forward through the same brackets that carry the emergency brake cable. Nicely grommeted, and lots of space to spare:



In the drivers side wheel well it pops nicely up off the frame and into the engine compartment.



...then I stopped to admire Racer55's new hoist. :D



Did I mention we had a roaring fire going in the fireplace and it was cozy warm inside while it pissed rain outdoors?
 
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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
<continued>

Yep, this sure beats working in the rain!



So, back to work.... Here's the intake manifold with the nozzles in place:



Sorry, blurry pic, but another view. The third nipple on the bottom is the hookup point for my boost gauge.



Pump temporarily plumbed in and testing. Notice the not yet hooked up solenoid at bottom of pic:



Intake manifold replaced. Better view of the nozzles. We decided to stagger them slightly so that they didn't spray into each other.



Starting to come together.



Pump mounted. We used one existing hold in a mounting bracket, and drilled another small hole for a second bolt.



Pump and solenoid now mounted with basic rough hookups done.



Another view:



Shut-off valve on one of the 2 lines:



Line hooked to nozzles and rough fit:



Last minute finishing touches, adjusting pressure switch:



The guts of the system - the pump. As mentioned, this is a relatively low cost agricultural pump. The agricultural model is important since the diaphragm is designed to resist chemicals such as methanol - the "RV" models of these pumps are not designed for anything aside from water and the diaphragm will fail IF you decide to use alcohol in your system. If you only plan on using water then an RV model pump would be fine so long as it has a 100% duty cycle - not all may be such equipped.



I will get a few more pics tomorrow of the tanks mounted in place, as well as the pressure switch.

So..hows it all wired? The previously installed relay and switch for my glow plug override was repurposed since it was no longer needed.

The toggle switch in the truck now feeds power TO the pressure switch. As long as there is no boost (idle, or engine is shut off) there is no chance of the pump running, nor even having the relay powered by accident. The pressure switch was set to 2 PSI, and when triggered, sends power to the large relay, as well as the solenoid. The pump comes on and the solenoid opens at the exact same moment when boost pressures reach 2PSI.

Despite the small diameter PEX hose the pump had NO issues priming and pumping copious amounts of water during the testing.

Once all hooked up, I opened the small valve we installed so the system was getting 15 GPH total - 10GPH from the large nozzle we installed, and 5 GPH from the smaller of the two nozzles. I wanted to test and see exactly how much water you could feed a 6.5 without it stumbling.

The first bit of the test drive was interesting. It's pretty clear that the first time the system came on the engine was being cleaned from the inside out - a LOT of crap and smoke was exiting the tailpipe. I can see who engines that use WMI are always so sparking clean inside if torn down later.

After a few miles it settled down. Still a noticeable amount of steam exiting the tailpipe when injecting 15GPH at lower to moderate RPM's and load.

So, here's the results:

15 GPH at low RPM will cause the occasiona miss and stumble. At higher RPM's or loads (towing, for example) it handles it just fine.

Turning the valve to the 5GPH nozzle OFF and running strictly on the 10GPH nozzle completely stops all stumbling. This is what I will be using for my "Miles per gallon" nozzle, while manually turning on the secondary 5GPH nozzle while towing. I suspect given the higher loads demanded of the engine while towing will result in no issues with a steady 15 GPH spray. I will report back as we will be towing our fifth wheel some distance the upcoming long weekend.

EGT's according to my OBDII dashboard display were notably lower than they would otherwise have been. More notable even was the lowered engine operating temperature and oil temperatures.

I drove the truck home (About 30 minutes between my house and Racer's house) and it consumed a surprising amount of water. I actually ran out about 5 minutes from home. I need to do more testing before narrowing down if it's consumption is inline with the nozzle sizes or if I have a leak somewhere under the hood...but I entirely expect this sort of setup to consume a LOT of water. Kits containing tiny water jugs would be utterly useless for a MPG-focused system like this, so you need to be prepared to commit to carrying a LOT of water. I only have one jug plumbed in at the moment but the second jug can be plumbed in with only a few small changes, made super easy by the quick connect PEX fittings.

Total investment was about $200 including EVERYTHING.

I will be following up with this thread routinely as I have more data to share, especially in regards to fuel economy.

Once again, a HUGE thank you to Racer55 for usage of his shop, tools, and expertise. While I was working on mounting the pumps and wiring things up he single handedly drilled the intake and had all the nozzles installed, and then we tackled the hookup together. It REALLY beat the alternative which was trying to squeeze the front end of my truck in my garage while it pissed rain outdoors.
 
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Super Moderator A Country Boy Can Survive...
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Just one recommendation Mark.

That solenoid you used. Is it a continuous duty solenoid? It doesn't look to be. The non-continuous duty solenoids are only good for about 30-45 seconds of continuous use as they get hot very quick and will fail.

The most i was ever able to get out of one was about 2 minutes straight before it was so hot i couldn't touch it. It was also so dead that it belonged in the trash can.

They do make continuous duty relays, you just have to find them. I've seen the continuous duty ones on some websites listed under "contactors".
 

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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
It was not specified continious duty or not on the packaging...but I know it works just fine - I use an exact duplicate on our fifth wheel to control the house inverter which draws about 100amps at peak, and we routinely leave it on all night long to power or TV in the evening (after retiring for bed) and then fans (for overnight sleeping) while dry camping in locations without power.

The relay gets warm (not really hot), but has been installed and functional since last spring without any issues despite many, many 12+ hour periods of being energized/closed.

I did place this relay at fault of cooking my glow plugs (for those who remember that story) but best as I can figure it was because the relay temporarily arc'd itself in the closed position due to the high amp draw beyond it's rating.

I've tested the relay since without any signs of problems. Even if by some fluke it did stick in the closed position again no water would make it into the intake anyways as the cutoff solenoid is wired separately from this relay and keeps a physical barrier between the pump/water and intake when it's in the closed position.
 
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this is great! did you buy the pump from? part number? think im going to do this weekend, what was your total install time? Thanks again for all this great info, nice work.
 

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Install time is tough to judge for this job since we tend to talk as much as work when projects get underway,and not always both at the same time!

Also there was seldom room for 2 people at once to work so the bulk of the wiring was left to privatepilot while I spent time searching my badly cluttered shop for odds and ends that were needed.

I have yet to get a place for everything and everything in it's place since there was a lot of inherited small parts and tools from my dads garage recently moved in and left on the floor(still many other jobs to get done before the shop can take priority).

We started at approximately 2:30pm and wrapped things up with a road test around 7:00pm.So about 4 1/2 hours but that falls more to my shop being disorganized than the effort needed.
Time spent searching for tap drills and me running errands and tool hunts to my parents place accounted for a certain amount of lost time and allowing for sunday afternoon breaks and visiting account for the rest.
You could probably get the job done in less time,just not sure how much less with a vendor supplied kit?
I will be doing this along with many other projects to my truck when time permits so we shall see what is involved with my Cooling Mist kit then.
 

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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #7
I was just informed that the second part of my thread was not showing to the general membership - I had placed the posts in a queue while I edited them for public consumption, and apparently I failed to properly release the second part of my thread!

For anyone who read the first post, scroll back up and read the second part..things will probably make a whole lot more sense, not to mention the rest of the pictures and details are there!
 

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Smokin' Daily
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Looks good! Can't wait to hear how it works!
 

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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #9
Got the first highway run on it this morning on the way to work. I turned off the 5GPH nozzle so I was running strictly the 10GPH nozzle for my 25 kilometer commute.

I will have to adjust the pressure switch as I've decided that it's coming on too early and at extreme low RPM it causes the engine to load up. In order to get it to clear I have to put my foot into it pretty good which will quickly negate any MPG benefits.

I'll adjust it upwards after work for the drive home.

A co-worker who followed me a short distance this morning advises my truck smells like a locomotive now. Quite strong and noxious, apparently! The steam cleaning of the interior of the engine is really knocking loose a LOT of crap still, obviously.

My trip computer indicates a reduced fuel consumption but I'm nowhere near ready to believe it yet - I will need to collect a lot more data (over a lot more time / distance) before I'll commit any numbers here.
 
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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #10
this is great! did you buy the pump from? part number? think im going to do this weekend, what was your total install time? Thanks again for all this great info, nice work.
The pump was also sourced from Princess Auto, a Canadian store similar to Harbor Freight in the USA. I don't have the part number specifically but will post some pictures of the box this evening.

It's just a plain agricultural chemical pump designed for sprayers.

It's rated for 70 PSI maximum but we did manage to get it up to about 80 PSI on the gauge when I cranked up the pressure switch on the pump. This was more than enough to provide a very fine mist using the nozzles I sourced, however.
 
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Wow, I will definitely want to see how this turns out for mpgs and pulling. looks pretty simple and fairly straight forward as far everything goes. Will have to study the wiring for it more and what not, but we have some of them tanks at the farm. Right now though, my truck is on the trailer until I can get a place to pull the transmission and rebuild it. Thanks for the great write up.
 

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Very cool! After I get everything else I need for my Burb, I was planning to mess around with WMI for some MPG's. Looking forward to updates!
 

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amazing just how much water one can burn through. I use a 5 gallon marine tank and I can go through it in under 300 miles but I only use it on long hills or where I see the egt's rising too much. Have you wired up a low water alarm, I don't know how well these pumps take dry cycling. My alarm is basically a float valve connected to an led light in the dash.
 

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Too bad the GM trucks only have one big tank instead of a midship and a rear like a Ford. You could dedicate the rear tank to water and have a gauge in the dash. Haha, that would raise some eyebrows at the truck stop when you pull in to fill up the front with diesel and grab the water hose to fill up the rear :D
 

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Just one recommendation Mark.

That solenoid you used. Is it a continuous duty solenoid? It doesn't look to be. The non-continuous duty solenoids are only good for about 30-45 seconds of continuous use as they get hot very quick and will fail.

The most i was ever able to get out of one was about 2 minutes straight before it was so hot i couldn't touch it. It was also so dead that it belonged in the trash can.

They do make continuous duty relays, you just have to find them. I've seen the continuous duty ones on some websites listed under "contactors".
The RV ones are heavy duty and will last longer than an automotive style when turned on for extended times

BTW nice job Mark
 

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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
amazing just how much water one can burn through. I use a 5 gallon marine tank and I can go through it in under 300 miles but I only use it on long hills or where I see the egt's rising too much.
If you think that's a lot, try injecting 10GPH almost constantly. :p:

The math is pretty simple on exactly how much water I'm using. It's pretty clear that for consistent use (especially when towing and I move up to 15GPH) I'm going to need my second water jug installed.

As for running out of water, these diaphragm style pumps can be run dry for extended periods without any issues. I can also tell just by the "feel" of the engine when I've run out of water.

just found the pump. http://www.princessauto.com/all-seasons/seasonal/sprayers/12-vdc/8358095-2_2-gpm-sprayer-pump Care to share your where you sourced your nozzles and pressure switch? did ya get the hose and fittings from princess auto aswell? Cheers once again nice work.
Yep, that's the one. Here's a pic of the box:



I sourced the nozzles (and pressure switch) from an online seller:

http://www.aquastealth.com

I went specifically with this guy since he took the time to answer my questions, even going so far as taking a phone call from me and talking for 10-15 minutes. He was clear about the fact that his nozzles didn't need the super high pressure of many others out there to mist properly, meaning I could use a pump capable of less pressure while still getting satisfactory results. At only $10 each I ordered extras for experimentation - that was the absolute cheapest price I could find online for what has turned out to be great nozzles.

Now, I know someone's going to ask "Why didn't you just order the kit on his website with everything included?".

I thought about it - it would have been simpler in some regards, and initially this is what I was planning to do...but when I talked to many WMI companies about using their kits "always on" for injection there was a lot of concern for overheating the high pressure pumps because they were not designed for constant use. Many sellers (not just this one) said that in this application that the pump may not be long lived. Others said they would NOT warranty their pump used in this fashion.

As a result, I wanted to go with a locally sourced pump with a locally based warranty, should I ever need it, and these agricultural pumps are apparently designed with much higher duty cycles...as in an agricultural spraying situation they could be running constantly for hours.

The other thing was that with a lower pressure, the pump I installed wouldn't be working quite as hard, and sure enough with the testing so far, it doesn't stress much.

The other thing I didn't like about the kit route is that I would have ended up having to buy a lot more anyways....valves, line, shut offs, etc etc. By the time I paid the shipping for all this stuff from the USA (Plus my extra nozzles, added cost AND shipping, taxes and duties) I calculated I would have been close to $300-$350, versus the $200 I spent.
 

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Was wondering how big of a 5r are you pullin i have a 1996 Apenlight 34 im pullin with my 96 6.5 stupid camper weight 11,000 pds im very interested in the install is it boost referanced to come on with boost
 

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privatepilot`s system is using an adjustable boost switch to activate it at the desired boost level.

I picked up an EGT gauge/controller for my truck when it is installed to activate my system but I will also have the option to use the boost switch as well if the mileage gains warrant using it more often.
 

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Just Horsing Around
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Ok...today's observations. I've got about 100 Kilometers on the system now, unfortunately half of that is slow stop and go traffic since my commute home is usually screwed thanks to Toronto rush hour. The stop and go traffic made testing almost impossible.

I turned up the activation pressure to about 2.5 PSI. at 1.5/2.0PSI the system was coming on with even slight around-town low RPM driving. Although I'm not against this, the current setup is feeding too much water to make this functional - Read on for details why.

With the boost switch turned up the system behaved better around town...although when conditions are met and it does turn on around town under light load / low RPM, the engine quickly loads up and flames out at least 1 cylinder, as evidenced by white smoke out the tailpipe and a very evident miss. Flip the system off and it clears up in seconds.

Basically, too much water at too light of a load.

At highway cruise (100KPH/60MPH) the engine is quite happy being fed 10GPH so long as you maintain the load, but as soon as you back off the power a bit (kicking off cruise control, for example) it starts to load up quicky, so it's pretty clear that 10GPH is on the cusp of what I would consider the "maximum" amount of water for unloaded highway driving.

It's becoming evident to me that I'm going to have to remove my 10GPH nozzle and try the spare 7GPH nozzle I have.

The secondary 5GPH nozzle also installed has been shut off for all testing so far. 10GPH is too much for unloaded driving, although I'm positive 10+ will be fine when towing - based on some testing I'm expecting 13-15 GPH will be just fine under the consistent towing loads.

So, my plan is to remove the 10GPH nozzle and replace it with the 7GPH. I suspect it will behave much better in both in-town and highway cruise. I will leave the 5GPH turned off except when towing, at which point it can be brought into play for a total of 12GPH.

If the 7GPH proves unsatisfactory, I will then swap the feeds for the 5 and 7 nozzles and make the 7 the "switchable" nozzle, with the 5 being the "always on" nozzle. I don't suspect this will be necessary, though, as I'm fairly confident that the 7GPH nozzle will end up being the sweet-spot.

So far, with about 100 Kilometers on the clock I've used a little over half of a single water jug which I filled at the beginning of testing. Quite a lot, but less than I expected. Consumption should decrease going to the smaller nozzle, although when towing at flipping back up to both nozzles it will increase a lot again. I think I will install the second tank, but make it quickly removable - when not towing I don't think I'm going to need it at only 7GPH of water feed - I can just fill the single jug a few times a week, but when injecting 12GPH towing (sometimes for hours non-stop) the second jug will be all but a necessity if I even want to manage to go from one fuel-up to the next without running out of water.

Testing is ongoing.
 
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