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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

I'm back...started a thread last February (ages ago, it seems) and have gotten to the point of trying to start the engine. Once I get over this hurdle I'll make it all more interesting with a blow-by-blow construction description (if anybody's interested), but for now I'm begging for a bit of help getting it started.

I've read the troubleshooting threads fairly thoroughly, and have come down to this: I'm getting plenty of fuel to the injection pump, just none out. I have an electric lift pump installed, and it's working. I have a new fuel filter/water separator, and verified it's filled up and fuel is coming out the other side into the IP inlet.

I cracked the injector lines - one the first time, all of them the second time.

I can crank the engine over, and it cranks happily and quickly. I even detached the fuel return line from the IP and pointed it into a cup to eliminate return line blockage as a culprit.

I'm wondering if I've got the wiring on the IP right?

I have a photo I took before I disassembled everything (it's a LOT cleaner now!):


There is a connector with three leads on the Throttle Position Sensor. One pink, one tan w/trace, and one yellow. The Haynes Diesel techbook I bought says the pink gets battery voltage, and the yellow is for EGR. However, the same book says the (nonexistent) blue wire is for EPR (Exhaust Pressure Regulator). There are two more leads on a separate connector that are for the transmission (doesn't allow lockup in 4wd). I figure none of these are affecting the fuel feed.

There are also two male spade lugs on the top if the injection pump. The one closest to the front they say is the injection pump solenoid, and should get at least 9 volts. They hint in the text that it's a pink lead...picture shows it's pink, but I don't know where it comes from. The lug lower down and rearward is the cold advance terminal. A picture in the manual shows that it's just a jumper from the IP solenoid, but my donor was rigged with the cold idle solenoid, which makes more sense.

OK, I put 12 volts to both the IP solenoid and the cold advance terminal, and tried again. I can hear the solenoids click when I connect them. Crank the engine...no luck.

What else can I do to try to get fuel out of the injection pump? Please help me get this thing started!

Thanks much!

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Let me ask ya this: How long do I have to crank the engine before I start to see fuel out the end of the injector line?

I detached a line from the IP, cranked, and saw a dribble of fuel...now I'm optimistic...
 

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The throttle position senser should get a 5 volt signal from pcm,not 12 volts. one wire is ground and the 3rd wire returns to pcm. I'd try running a jumper wire from bat. pos to fuel shut off. you should hear a click . try cranking. you should get fuel to injecters if you have fuel to the pump. It sometimes takes a while to get the air out of the pump. The throttle position senser shouln't have any effect on wether or not you get fuel. The cold advance should have a senser on the pass. side head to the rear of number 8 inj. I believe its a green wire in and out. The throttle pos. senser effects torque conv. lockup.I have gm manual for 91 with scematics .pm me if you have more questions
 

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This all sounds like PMD to be honest, no fuel and cranking good. Did you eliminate the PMD as the issue, sorry I didn't read the oroiginal thread yet.

I didn't think there was a TPS on diesels.
 

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This all sounds like PMD to be honest, no fuel and cranking good. Did you eliminate the PMD as the issue, sorry I didn't read the oroiginal thread yet.

I didn't think there was a TPS on diesels.
im not all caught up on 6.5's yet but i believe a mechanical pump would have a tps and no pmd, i think that is what the o.p. is running
 

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I'm not sure what engine he is running, I know its a 6.5 but details on injection are kind of sketchy. The pic above kinda looks like the top of the electronic. I could be wrong tho.
 

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That is a mech. pump i'm pretty sure.
 

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That is certainly a mechanical injector pump.

BZM,
Do what BK95TD said and apply a jumper wire directly from the battery to the fuel shutoff solenoid (labeled as IP solenoid in your pic). You should hear it click. This will verify that the shutoff is opening, allowing fuel to the IP.

Next, turn the key on with the engine off. Pull the shutoff solenoid connector, you should hear the click again. Test for 12v. If it's signigicantly lower, you may not be getting fuel even though the solenoid is making noise.

You will have to crank for a loooooong time to bleed the air out of an IP that has been sleeping for a year or two. You can ease the burden on your starter by pulling all of the glow plugs out (thus removing the resistance of compression). Crank in short bursts with a few minutes in between to cool the starter down.


Just one question: Did you witness this engine running before you installed it? I had an experience where I bought a 6.2, sight unseen, from a guy I thought I could trust, and when I got it installed, it had a blown head gasket!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi all,

Sorry for the late and delayed response. I checked this thread for a while, got no responses (9/28 - 10/8), so stopped checking. Thank you all for the informative responses since then!

I got it started...

First, it's a mechanical pump. Yes, I witnessed the engine running (drove it) before the big swap. Um, I'm ignoring the throttle position sensor. I have switched 12V from a relay through the water temp sensor in the p-side head to the cold advance and fast idle solenoid. Works great. Have 12V from the same relay not going through the water temp sensor, directly to the fuel shutoff.

I found a web page that detailed purging the fuel supply side of air, went through that procedure, and she fired right up. Ran like a goosed goose, too. What I thought was a shuddering transmission turned out to be rear wheels laying down extra rubber. :)

I drove it for a while, but it started letting me down with a hot-start issue. I mean, it starts just fine when cold, but won't start warm until some unspecified amount of time has passed. Everything I read about non-PMD systems that do this say to suspect the injector pump head. I have a new IP on order...should be here next week (Feb 16-ish 2009).

Immediately after that gets done (which I hope solves the hot-start issue), I'm going to get a rebuilt late-model 700R4 trans from a local shop. Already have that one in the works.

I'm also going to get a manual waste-gate controller. Mine has no controller at all (since I retrofitted the turbo), and although the boost gauge never goes over 10psi, hooking the controller directly to the vacuum tank doesn't make me feel all warm and gooshy.

Any other brilliant suggestions? Thanks again!
 

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whereabouts are you...i have a rebuilt 700...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Rebuilt 700

whereabouts are you...i have a rebuilt 700...
Sounds interesting. I'm in Redding, CA. It's a fur piece to drive from where you are...:rolleyes: I think I'll stick with the guy who's 2 miles away - and who I can go back to if anything goes wrong.

Thank you anyway!
 

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lol, fill out your profile and sig so i won't embarass myself again :p: sig link in my sig
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Back again, status update

Well, I'm back again. Got the new rebuilt injection pump, got it installed and static timed. Need to have it dynamically timed? At least now it starts warm! While I was at it I re-did all the fuel lines with nice aluminum 3/8" tubing. That eliminated a bunch of joints that could have been allowing air into the line. I also learned that a new Optima red top battery cranks a lot faster than a tired Autolite. Wow. What a difference.

I built a manual wastegate controller, but I have a couple questions about that.

When I had the vacuum controller on, applying vacuum would pull the lever counterclockwise from about a 235-degree position (counting clockwise, with 0 at the top) to about 180 degrees. Now, the spring tends to force the lever into the same position. When I rev the engine, the spring does compress.

So the questions:
1. Does exhaust pressure tend to open the wastegate (move the lever clockwise) and allow the turbo to make more pressure? I assumed "yes", but would like to verify.

2. How strong should the spring be? I used two 1-lb springs together. Seat of the pants stuff, figured I'd adjust as I went along.

Thanks for all the help so far!
 
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