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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I'm here to seek help for a problem we are having. I work for a business that has experienced quite a bit of vandalism and sabotage. I'm looking to get an idea of the types of things our guys should be looking for as far as sabotaging the diesel motors. Most of our trucks engines are the duramax but we also have a number of Cat engines.

There are some pretty effective ways of doing serious damage to these engines and its not just the cost to repair or replace the equipment but also the fact that we are not able to effectively meet deadlines if our equipment is not running.

One thing we have found they do is pull the dip stick on the engines and introduce the contaminate to the engine that way. That way they can bypass the filters. We're not sure what contaminates they are using but any information you folks can give on what we should watch for will be helpful. We suspect they have mixed sand or something with a fluid, possibly power steering fluid or the like and put that down the dip stick holes. We have had a number of other things done but my goal here is to get a list of sabotage tricks that we should watch for.

Thank you.
 

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Well, following my CUCV's setup, you can use Silicone or the like to seal the dipsticks up between oil changes. If the Silicone is broken, someone has pulled the stick, assume somethings gotten.

Another thought, you could add additional locks to your hoods (Locking Hood Pins). If they can't get into the hood and reach the appropriate orifice's, they can't sabotage the motor.

Just some thoughts.
 

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Water? are they overfilling the motor with water? dirt? metal shavings? or something i cant think of right now that would thin/thicken the oil to the point it doesnt do anything? sorry to hear about that, i hate vandals
 

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This sounds like pretty sophisticated damage. It takes a lot of thinking to mix brake fluid and sand and pour it down a dipstick; most people who know motors that well don't want to hurt them that bad.

It's not the answer you're looking for; but in my oppinion the only way to combat sabotage that severe would be to eliminate whoever's trying to do the damage (get them caught, remove whatever motivation they have to hurt you, etc). Short of that, your best bet is probably going to be to start securing access to everything- the site as a whole, vehicles as a whole, and individual components on each vehicle.

To answer your original question, a few things to watch for:
-Any obstruction or damage to the exhaust; won't cause tons of damage, but sure could cause some headaches.
-Anywhere something can be introduced into the fuel, coolant, lubercation, and powertrain systems.
-Any obstruction or debris in the drivetrain; U-joints, driveshafts, etc.

Don't take it personal, but I hesitate to go into real detail because of this:
Logger 2;1583907; said:
We have had a number of other things done but my goal here is to get a list of sabotage tricks that we should watch for.
Your intentions may be good and your post made in good faith, but to me that line sticks out as something that could come from someone looking to do exactly what you're claiming you're trying to avoid. What better place to learn how to destroy an engine than somewhere where everyone knows how to fix it. I see it's your first post and all, and it sounds a little suspiscious to me, but I hope you'll accept my apoligies if I'm mistaken.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't take offence to it. You're better safe than sorry. They have been sophisticated in the way they have damaged our equipment. Most of what they have done in the past is doing its damage before we even discover there was a vandal, and in many cases we never do discover what they did. Whoever has been behind this knows more about how to damage engines than the average Joe. I am trying to take a more proactive approach to this rather than the reactive approach we have used up until this point.
 

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An interesting request for ideas of ways to damage/sabotage the vehicles...instead of putting your energy and resources into capturing the low-life scumbag saboteurs. I'd put your resources into security cameras/recorders...get the low-life(s) on the recorder and turn it over to law enforcement. While it's good to be aware of the possible ways to damage these vehicles so you might be able to recognize a vehilce that has been tampered with...it puts you in the position of "reacting" after the fact. Better to go on the offense and try to capture the scrotum-skulls damaging your vehicles. Don't put it past one or more of the employees either if that scenario applies. Some people have grudges...and others would do just about anything to get out of work. If you don't have the knowledge to do the surveillance yourselves...look into hiring a security company or "reputable" private investigator to do it for you. Not cheap...but I'm sure cheaper than paying for all the truck motor repairs after the fact. Good luck. Let us all know if/when you catch the sh$tbirds doing this damage to your trucks and business.
 

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There are a million ways to damage an engine beyond belief quite easily. It will be very difficult to prevent everything that could be done. Sand, water, sugar, etc... They're all possible contaminants. Probably the simplest way to damage the engine without any signs of trouble and without even opening the hood would be to drain the oil out of it (particularly if you seal the dipstick with silicone as suggested above because then you can't check the oil before you run it - not saying that it's a bad idea to seal it up, just that it could create another issue). There really is no good way to prevent someone from draining the oil, but most vandals won't go to that much trouble.

Like I said, you'll never stop somebody who is determined to cause you grief. If they really want to wreck your engine they will find a way to do it. You're better off sitting outside there one night and watching the place...
 

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Farmers were having sabatoge problems around here a few years back when people where dumping paint thinner in there fuel.
 

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by looking at your name ,i assume you are in the logging industry, if so your probably dealing with some type of tree huggers group. it sounds like your best bet would be some type of survielance system. www.supercircuits.com might have what your looking for, it might be a little expensive, but certainly cheaper than a new motor. give them a call and explain what is goin on . good luck
 

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I like the "seal" idea. There are many ways to do it, but visible seals and morning inspections are a great idea.

As far as what to do to destroy an engine? Please don't ask such a question on a public forum. No good can come from that.

The folk who want to do politics by destruction are the same as those who fly planes into buildings. No difference in mentality, just severity.
 

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McRat;1584079; said:
I like the "seal" idea. There are many ways to do it, but visible seals and morning inspections are a great idea.

As far as what to do to destroy an engine? Please don't ask such a question on a public forum. No good can come from that.

The folk who want to do politics by destruction are the same as those who fly planes into buildings. No difference in mentality, just severity.
X2

#100 Silica sand in the intake?:D Like fine flour, but abrasive as heck!
 

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Locking hood pins, locking gas caps\doors - engine oil, coolant can be seen externally.
 

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McRat;1584079; said:
As far as what to do to destroy an engine? Please don't ask such a question on a public forum. No good can come from that.
Exactly! This was my point above.
 

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a nice electric fence setup hooked to the vehicle will deter quite a bit.
 

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lock everything, wire seals(fire ext) like mcrat said, they won't know they broke them but you should. cameras, if in woods look at camera hunters use with motion detector. are you on federal or state property, they are responsible by contract. shawnee nat. forest(southern Ill) tree huggers kept damaging equipment and drive spikes(chain saw's) in tree's National Forestry/park service, and FED marshals would not stop these people from going into area, company was into $millions, sued fed's for not providing safe work environment, no time they were all rounded up at damage was stopped.
 

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A trail cam could definately help get someone on video while they where doing harm.
 

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schulte;1583950; said:
This sounds like pretty sophisticated damage. It takes a lot of thinking to mix brake fluid and sand and pour it down a dipstick; most people who know motors that well don't want to hurt them that bad.

It's not the answer you're looking for; but in my oppinion the only way to combat sabotage that severe would be to eliminate whoever's trying to do the damage (get them caught, remove whatever motivation they have to hurt you, etc). Short of that, your best bet is probably going to be to start securing access to everything- the site as a whole, vehicles as a whole, and individual components on each vehicle.

To answer your original question, a few things to watch for:
-Any obstruction or damage to the exhaust; won't cause tons of damage, but sure could cause some headaches.
-Anywhere something can be introduced into the fuel, coolant, lubercation, and powertrain systems.
-Any obstruction or debris in the drivetrain; U-joints, driveshafts, etc.

Don't take it personal, but I hesitate to go into real detail because of this:

Your intentions may be good and your post made in good faith, but to me that line sticks out as something that could come from someone looking to do exactly what you're claiming you're trying to avoid. What better place to learn how to destroy an engine than somewhere where everyone knows how to fix it. I see it's your first post and all, and it sounds a little suspiscious to me, but I hope you'll accept my apoligies if I'm mistaken.

+1 to all of that.

My only suggestions are to tighten up your security (cameras, gates, locks, etc) and button up the truck as good as you can. Things like locking gas caps, extra hood latches/locks go a long way to deter vandals but even with that there are ways to sabotage a truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I appreciate the help guys. The hunter cameras are a great idea, they could easily be moved from job to job. In addition to the security measures we have already deployed, the main thing is for the guys to know what to look for before they start the engines. We found two large syringes in the trees that had been used. They looked like they had sand in them made soluble by a clear fluid. I don't know what the clear fluid was, probably brake fluid or power steering fluid. The fluids would not hurt the engine but that grit they had in it would be terrible for the engine. The grit was not sugar, it looked like white sand. The syringes had been there for some time so whatever engine(s) they were used on had already been ran for nobody knows how long. We also found that grit in one of the Cats air boxes, but it appears the filter stopped most of that.
 

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TurboBeagleBuggy;1584009; said:
Farmers were having sabatoge problems around here a few years back when people where dumping paint thinner in there fuel.
Logger 2 vbmenu_register("postmenu_1584958", true);
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I don't know what the clear fluid was, probably brake fluid or power steering fluid. The fluids would not hurt the engine
Hi i do use paint thinner and power seering fluids with my WVO for long time and i'm not alone doing it without any damage .

But the **pm** fluid will do just that, damage to the engine

Ed
 
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