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Curious to how the 2001 to 2006 trucks compare to 2007 and newer trucks?

5K views 24 replies 12 participants last post by  vince99frc 
#1 ·
I keep seeing all these upgrades done to the newer trucks. How do us older trucks compare to them when it comes to towing? Does a simple programmer like the Edge even the playing field? Do we need to upgrade suspension or anything to equal the newer trucks abilities or is the newer trucks just that.. Newer!!
 
#4 ·
The new ones 06+ have the 6 speed which I would say is better (stronger) and drops the rpms lower. I honestly have not towed anything in a newer truck, so I cannot say.
 
#6 ·
The 6th gear to my knowledge is not for towing. Also the reason semi's have so many gears is because their's are so close together. Keeps them in their powerband. To add to this they do not spin very fast at all, like ours to a 5.7 or 5.3 gas engine. They spin 5k to 5.5k at redline, something like that, and our Dmax's redline at what 3,100 or 3,200 rpm. Semi's don't have a high rpm so to have any type of speed and power, they need the gears to keep them at the low powermaking rpm's.
Up to 2011 the I don't think their is much differnce in them at all, other then engine and emissions.
 
#7 ·
the allison is using ALL 6 forward gears for towing....no problems at all....70mph in 6th gear is around 1700/1800 rpm depending on tire size. when towing and climbing hills adding throttle to maintain speed; most of the time you will be able to stay in 6th gear depending on the speed you want and how heavy the load is; if for some reason you cannot maintain speed and continue to ad throttle the trans will down shift to 5th gear raising rpm to about 2100 allowing you to climb the hill easier. very nice to have such a small gear change not like going from 5th to 4th which is a big jump in rpm.....only once did I ever have the trans go into 4th on a hill and then i just backed off and moped along at 55mph to the top...

suspension wise the 01 thru 10 models are all the same...it is the HP/TQ rating of the engine that changed over the years allowing you to tow more with the added power...

the new 11 model has new suspension and frame parts for more in bed truck carrying weight and new HP/TQ numbers for even greater towing
 
#9 ·
other than the 6th gear; i dont know of a "boxed" controller that doesnt get to or even get past the "new" power numbers.....

do some research on PPE, Fleece, Hypertech, Diablo, Edge, Banks, and I'm sure I missed one or 2 and see which one "fits" your wants the best....I say "want" because we all NEED more power but just HOW MUCH do we actually WANT is really the ????

"boxed" controllers are best for guys that really arent computer savy or just want something simple to plug in and go....they offer proven ( usually ); reliable, "safe" power/mileage gains
 
#10 ·
I don't think there is much difference between my LBZ (360 HP) and the LMM (365 HP). The LMM has 5 more HP and added emissions which probably negate the 5 HP, and a new body design. If it were an LB7 I might put a programmer on it, but IIRC they are 300 HP, have no cat, and pull well. My brother in law has an LB7 with the Banks 6 gun and 4" exhaust and can keep up with me on flat ground, and only slows a bit more than I do going over the Grapevine. I agree with LtEng5, how much power do you really need, and IMHO if you are climbing lots of hills you might be 5, maybe 10 minutes behind everyone else at the end of the day, and I would be happy with that.
 
#11 ·
Are you saying the towing tunes on most programmers and/or tuning is possibly less than the LBZ/LMM stock for the older trucks? OR just because of the 6 speed they are better in situations like the grapevine or another hard towing grade?
 
#12 ·
My 0.02.
For most people there is not going to be enough difference to justify upgrading to a newer truck.
The differences will show up when you push the truck toward its capacity.
This can be done either by towing heavy weights or climibing big hills.

Anyone that lives in mountain country will tell you that more gear ratios is a huge advantage when towing in the mountains. Until you done it you won't understand.

There are some mountain passes whereyour speed will dicatated by the terrain Ie. switchbacks that force your speed to be < 30mph. During those times your engine and tranny temps climb and your truck is working hard if you have alot of weight behind it.

Other hilly terrain will have slopes that have your truck looking for the correct gear. Ie 8% grade with 10K lbs behind the truck maybe fine in 4th on a NBS truck but 3rd is too low on a classic and 4th too high, because of less torque from the engine.

Like I said most people will never notice. If you tow frequently in the mountains you are dreaming of the days when the rumored 8 speed Allison will finally come out.
 
#13 ·
I just hope the 8 speed Allison will fit in the older trucks and only require a computer change.. :D

Like I said most people will never notice. If you tow frequently in the mountains you are dreaming of the days when the rumored 8 speed Allison will finally come out.
 
#15 ·
I just dont plan on purchasing another truck for a long time if at all. If I can keep my current up to date via not having any issues towing anything the newer trucks can tow I would be content. I do plan on upgrading to a built Allison one day. Just doing the usual research now. Hell adding another tranny cooler and doing the V2 might be all I need for the future, but I wont know until I start putting a load heavier than my cars behind my truck. I should know better when I drive to Cali later in the year to pick up my cousins 15klb boat and tow it back to Florida.
 
#17 ·
My LLY doesn't miss 6th gear now that I put 265's on. My rpm at 65 mph is 2k which is the sweet spot. Would it be nice to have the LBZ for the 6th gear and no possible overheating issues. Sure, but mine pull great as is. Now the 2011 model is getting my interest... A lot of improvements.
 
#19 ·
X2 for Primed2Win.
I often tow my 9K 5th wheel over Monarch Pass, CO which goes 12000 feet. I use manual and keep the rpms at 21-2200. Those mountains are a long pull up and a long push down using the engine to brake. 30-35 mph is a standard speed around tight corners keeping control of your rig. Those 6 gears are appreciated and if you haven't pulled a trailer through a Rocky mountain pass you'll never really know what a great machine these DuraMax /Allison's are!
 
#21 ·
On the 2007 LBZs, 5th and 6th are both Overdrive gears, and a relatively small ratio difference between them. The transmission tows well in 6th, and quite frankly, if the transmission thinks otherwise, it just goes ahead and downshifts.

Regardless, it beats the heck out of my Tahoe's 4L60E for towing, which uses engine revs to make up the difference and immediately downshifts when towing to 3rd, then slams into 2nd. (I live in the mountains). I'll take the 6th to 5th downshift and 2100 rpm to the 4-3-2 abrupt downshifts and running 4,500 rpm with far less weight.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I'm getting ready to tow a 34' Jayco 5'er thats 17k+ loaded thru New Mexico and all thru Colorado next month and I'm not a bit worried. For the most part the truck will pull most hills in 5th without downshifting, but on some very steep grades I may drop to 4th and lower the speed some. All my mods have been for towing and lowering EGT's. The best I can figure, the LLY with good bolt on parts and with me using the level 1 tune the motor should be cranking out 390ish crank HP and 780ish crank TQ. Thats a little better than any new diesel you can buy, and in this low Economy tune my MPG is better and even towing heavy on long grades or WOT runs the EGT never excedes 1,100*. I could turn it up more but down really need insane power to tow. Just enough to keep it in gear without downshifting and get the loads moving faster. Too high of EGT's for too long puts alot of strain on the engine and cooling system, which on the LLY is under engineered. So after getting my EGT's to max at just 1,100* the highest coolant temp recorded on the edge towing 12k, even at WOT at times because of stupid houston drivers, was 199*. I have yet to break 200* since getting the EGT down. With the trucks stock everything and the Edge on stock (yes I hear it still adds a little timing) the EGT's could easily top 1,350* at WOT, the coolant would hit 208* pretty quick and stay fairly steady there on flat ground. Now it gets better mpg, tows and drives with more power, and best of all runs alot cooler!

I dont tow with the tow tune because I was seeing just over 1,200* and really dont need that little more power.

I just prefer the older trucks because of price and how much simpler they are. If I ever have a load the Dmax cant move, the old 12 valve will surely get it done. LOL
 
#23 ·
I have had both the 5 and six speed allisons. One in an 05 lly, one in an 06 LBZ. The 06 was damn salty, just seemed to have more cahones pulling my 650 JD dozer. The 05 will pull it fine but it works a whole lot harder to do it. Both trucks have the superchips tow program on them.
I would take the 360 hp 6 speed over the 300 hp 5 speed all day long. A little better tow mileage also. 7.5 -8 on the 05, 8-8.7 on the 06.
For reference a 650 JD dozer weighs about 18,500 lbs plus the trailer which was 4400 lbs.
 
#24 ·
My personal truck is the 05' with the 5 speed, but my company truck up untill our "spin-off" was an 07' classic GMC LBZ with the 6 speed. I put the bully dog tripple dog on it, but other than that it was stock. To be honest having driven both of them I do prefer the 6 speed and the LBZ. It was a really fast truck stock. It also idled and ran quieter then the LLY. IMO the best Dmax to date is the LBZ trucks. The LLY is still an very good truck, but I wished it had the 6 speed trans.
 
#25 ·
Just pulled my car in an enclosed trailor. My guess is I pulled around 8klbs.. The truck did not know it was back there with the Edge set on 2 and fuel 5. Never went over 200F cruising at 65mph... Now I just need to put something double the weight behind her and see how she responds...
 
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