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Discussion Starter #1
I keep seeing all these upgrades done to the newer trucks. How do us older trucks compare to them when it comes to towing? Does a simple programmer like the Edge even the playing field? Do we need to upgrade suspension or anything to equal the newer trucks abilities or is the newer trucks just that.. Newer!!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I see a lot of views guys. I am new to diesel trucks.. Either you dont know or dont feel like answering.
 

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The new ones 06+ have the 6 speed which I would say is better (stronger) and drops the rpms lower. I honestly have not towed anything in a newer truck, so I cannot say.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes I would think 6 gears are better than 5 as far as towing. Hence the reason the big semi's have so many gears..

The new ones 06+ have the 6 speed which I would say is better (stronger) and drops the rpms lower. I honestly have not towed anything in a newer truck, so I cannot say.
 

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The 6th gear to my knowledge is not for towing. Also the reason semi's have so many gears is because their's are so close together. Keeps them in their powerband. To add to this they do not spin very fast at all, like ours to a 5.7 or 5.3 gas engine. They spin 5k to 5.5k at redline, something like that, and our Dmax's redline at what 3,100 or 3,200 rpm. Semi's don't have a high rpm so to have any type of speed and power, they need the gears to keep them at the low powermaking rpm's.
Up to 2011 the I don't think their is much differnce in them at all, other then engine and emissions.
 

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the allison is using ALL 6 forward gears for towing....no problems at all....70mph in 6th gear is around 1700/1800 rpm depending on tire size. when towing and climbing hills adding throttle to maintain speed; most of the time you will be able to stay in 6th gear depending on the speed you want and how heavy the load is; if for some reason you cannot maintain speed and continue to ad throttle the trans will down shift to 5th gear raising rpm to about 2100 allowing you to climb the hill easier. very nice to have such a small gear change not like going from 5th to 4th which is a big jump in rpm.....only once did I ever have the trans go into 4th on a hill and then i just backed off and moped along at 55mph to the top...

suspension wise the 01 thru 10 models are all the same...it is the HP/TQ rating of the engine that changed over the years allowing you to tow more with the added power...

the new 11 model has new suspension and frame parts for more in bed truck carrying weight and new HP/TQ numbers for even greater towing
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So reading what you are saying a programmer or program evens the playing field for us older trucks?

the allison is using ALL 6 forward gears for towing....no problems at all....70mph in 6th gear is around 1700/1800 rpm depending on tire size. when towing and climbing hills adding throttle to maintain speed; most of the time you will be able to stay in 6th gear depending on the speed you want and how heavy the load is; if for some reason you cannot maintain speed and continue to ad throttle the trans will down shift to 5th gear raising rpm to about 2100 allowing you to climb the hill easier. very nice to have such a small gear change not like going from 5th to 4th which is a big jump in rpm.....only once did I ever have the trans go into 4th on a hill and then i just backed off and moped along at 55mph to the top...

suspension wise the 01 thru 10 models are all the same...it is the HP/TQ rating of the engine that changed over the years allowing you to tow more with the added power...

the new 11 model has new suspension and frame parts for more in bed truck carrying weight and new HP/TQ numbers for even greater towing
 

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other than the 6th gear; i dont know of a "boxed" controller that doesnt get to or even get past the "new" power numbers.....

do some research on PPE, Fleece, Hypertech, Diablo, Edge, Banks, and I'm sure I missed one or 2 and see which one "fits" your wants the best....I say "want" because we all NEED more power but just HOW MUCH do we actually WANT is really the ????

"boxed" controllers are best for guys that really arent computer savy or just want something simple to plug in and go....they offer proven ( usually ); reliable, "safe" power/mileage gains
 

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I don't think there is much difference between my LBZ (360 HP) and the LMM (365 HP). The LMM has 5 more HP and added emissions which probably negate the 5 HP, and a new body design. If it were an LB7 I might put a programmer on it, but IIRC they are 300 HP, have no cat, and pull well. My brother in law has an LB7 with the Banks 6 gun and 4" exhaust and can keep up with me on flat ground, and only slows a bit more than I do going over the Grapevine. I agree with LtEng5, how much power do you really need, and IMHO if you are climbing lots of hills you might be 5, maybe 10 minutes behind everyone else at the end of the day, and I would be happy with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Are you saying the towing tunes on most programmers and/or tuning is possibly less than the LBZ/LMM stock for the older trucks? OR just because of the 6 speed they are better in situations like the grapevine or another hard towing grade?

I don't think there is much difference between my LBZ (360 HP) and the LMM (365 HP). The LMM has 5 more HP and added emissions which probably negate the 5 HP, and a new body design. If it were an LB7 I might put a programmer on it, but IIRC they are 300 HP, have no cat, and pull well. My brother in law has an LB7 with the Banks 6 gun and 4" exhaust and can keep up with me on flat ground, and only slows a bit more than I do going over the Grapevine. I agree with LtEng5, how much power do you really need, and IMHO if you are climbing lots of hills you might be 5, maybe 10 minutes behind everyone else at the end of the day, and I would be happy with that.
 

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My 0.02.
For most people there is not going to be enough difference to justify upgrading to a newer truck.
The differences will show up when you push the truck toward its capacity.
This can be done either by towing heavy weights or climibing big hills.

Anyone that lives in mountain country will tell you that more gear ratios is a huge advantage when towing in the mountains. Until you done it you won't understand.

There are some mountain passes whereyour speed will dicatated by the terrain Ie. switchbacks that force your speed to be < 30mph. During those times your engine and tranny temps climb and your truck is working hard if you have alot of weight behind it.

Other hilly terrain will have slopes that have your truck looking for the correct gear. Ie 8% grade with 10K lbs behind the truck maybe fine in 4th on a NBS truck but 3rd is too low on a classic and 4th too high, because of less torque from the engine.

Like I said most people will never notice. If you tow frequently in the mountains you are dreaming of the days when the rumored 8 speed Allison will finally come out.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just hope the 8 speed Allison will fit in the older trucks and only require a computer change.. :D

Like I said most people will never notice. If you tow frequently in the mountains you are dreaming of the days when the rumored 8 speed Allison will finally come out.
 

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buy the 6 speed conversion from suncoast if you want 6 gears honestly they arent any different pulling and the 50 hp from oem isnt much.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I just dont plan on purchasing another truck for a long time if at all. If I can keep my current up to date via not having any issues towing anything the newer trucks can tow I would be content. I do plan on upgrading to a built Allison one day. Just doing the usual research now. Hell adding another tranny cooler and doing the V2 might be all I need for the future, but I wont know until I start putting a load heavier than my cars behind my truck. I should know better when I drive to Cali later in the year to pick up my cousins 15klb boat and tow it back to Florida.

buy the 6 speed conversion from suncoast if you want 6 gears honestly they arent any different pulling and the 50 hp from oem isnt much.
 

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mine will tow all day long at 12k i dont think you got any worry

hell ppl pull 15k with old psds gassers etc...there all capable might not tow as fast as brand new lmm but 50k price tag would empty your pocket alot quicker.
 

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My LLY doesn't miss 6th gear now that I put 265's on. My rpm at 65 mph is 2k which is the sweet spot. Would it be nice to have the LBZ for the 6th gear and no possible overheating issues. Sure, but mine pull great as is. Now the 2011 model is getting my interest... A lot of improvements.
 

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I don't think there is much difference between my LBZ (360 HP) and the LMM (365 HP). The LMM has 5 more HP and added emissions which probably negate the 5 HP, and a new body design. If it were an LB7 I might put a programmer on it, but IIRC they are 300 HP, have no cat, and pull well. My brother in law has an LB7 with the Banks 6 gun and 4" exhaust and can keep up with me on flat ground, and only slows a bit more than I do going over the Grapevine. I agree with LtEng5, how much power do you really need, and IMHO if you are climbing lots of hills you might be 5, maybe 10 minutes behind everyone else at the end of the day, and I would be happy with that.
LB7s do have cats and egr systems depending on the emissions. AND let me tell you, the egr systems suck bad!
 

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X2 for Primed2Win.
I often tow my 9K 5th wheel over Monarch Pass, CO which goes 12000 feet. I use manual and keep the rpms at 21-2200. Those mountains are a long pull up and a long push down using the engine to brake. 30-35 mph is a standard speed around tight corners keeping control of your rig. Those 6 gears are appreciated and if you haven't pulled a trailer through a Rocky mountain pass you'll never really know what a great machine these DuraMax /Allison's are!
 

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Are you saying the towing tunes on most programmers and/or tuning is possibly less than the LBZ/LMM stock for the older trucks? OR just because of the 6 speed they are better in situations like the grapevine or another hard towing grade?
I think the 6 speed has an advantage, but if I had the 5 speed it still does the job, and not worth trading up to a newer year. He always catches back up on the downhill side. IMHO I would rather own any D/A that is LBZ or prior. The LMM's are nice, but to much smog crap on them for me, and is just more to break. We both tow up a 13% grade for 11 miles every year, and his truck will pull it without any issues, as will mine. We both start at the bottom, and I will always make it to the top first, but the win isn't by much, maybe 60 to 90 seconds. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is, does the cost of a new truck really worth getting there a few minutes earlier than you do now?
 
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