Diesel Place banner

Cold start problems

3K views 29 replies 12 participants last post by  LoCrasto 
#1 ·
How is everybody doing?

Here is my problem.. Wen it is nice and cold out my 99 does not like the idea of starting...

First off I am running 5w 40 rotella synthetic


smokes and has a real bad miss

I have JK's Quick heat glow plugs in the truck now
as for new parts added:

*GM glow plug controller
*GM Glow plug wire harness
*GM coolant Temp switch (crossover pipe)
*GM air temp (intake after the turbo)

After I changed all those parts it runs 100% smother and less noise but still smokes and miss for the first .05 mins

The bat's are good load tested them starter cable I changed..
I am kinda thinking the starter is not spinning fast enough for it to start.. It just sounds slow to me...

Should I get a stock reman one form gm or get the "NEW factory type, gear reduction starter" from heath diesel?

My other question is
What would be the best glow plug I can put in for very cold starts??
Like 5 - 20 degrees?? 60G or the quick heats??

Thanks
Johnny
 
See less See more
#2 ·
might try running a little additive to prevent some of the gelling? thats a low temp. Mine has problems that I think are from gelling, new 60g's in mine this winter, new glow plug controller last year, harness is good, still hard starting, my starter spins fast I think, unless batteries are low. I have also 2 new 1000 crankin amp batteries back in fall...
 
#4 ·
Its probobally your injectors, not your starting system.

Are you plugging your block heater in?
 
#5 ·
Mine smokes for about 15-30 secs when it sits overnight. I have been told the injectors are due for replacement. Some guys wonder how it went this far w/o them being replaced (160k). It got down to the low 20s last night and it smoked and missed for about 30 secs this am. Once it runs and gets warm I have no issues. I did not use the block heater last night, but will tomm morn. I will post the results here.
 
#7 ·
The 60g's will last as long or longer than a lot of plugs, but require more glow time. If you install a manual glow button and give them an extra 5~10 seconds of glow, I'd bet your starting would improve immensely.

I changed them out because I didn't want to install a manual glow button.
 
#9 ·
I'm currently these WAP's (Wellman Auto Products)... http://tinyurl.com/hhohl

I've had them in since about October. So far, so good. But I have a feeling that 60g's with a manual button would be even better. And others on this site say that Delphi makes good plugs too.
 
#10 ·
60G's are longer lasting because they are designed to operate at higher voltage - also means they will require longer glow cycles, even on warm days, because they do not glow as hot.

Any of the 'fast-heat', 'hi-heat' gp's are better choices, if not wanting to add manual glow switching.

Most have tested hotter, last longer than the 60's

SS, Kennedy, Heath, others
 
#11 ·
i installed new bosch injectors from napa in september and have had the dual coil glowplugs for about 2 years now. i havent plugged my truck in yet this winter and it starts easy first crank everytime. you might want to look at some new injectors.
 
#12 ·
I put in a set of WAPs too last fall and it improved my cold starts a little bit but not a bunch.

Here's an interesting twist to this though. After mine starts in the cold and is smoking like a steam engine and shuddering away, i turn the engine off after ~10 sec. I wait a second or two and then recycle the glows and start it again.....runs much smoother and no smoke at all???? Seems like a computer thing to me. Any thoughts?
 
#13 ·
Well I put a new starter/starter cable in and it does start Little sooner and faster but it still smokes for about 15 sec.

still cranks for about 3-5 sec though.. though it never started right up for new
and I still wonder why..

the injectors only have about 10,000 on them now..

Is there any real difference between JK high heats and heaths??

Can the computer be reprogrammed to a longer glow time???

Thanks Johnny
 
#14 ·
Well I put a new starter/starter cable in and it does start Little sooner and faster but it still smokes for about 15 sec.

still cranks for about 3-5 sec though.. though it never started right up for new
and I still wonder why..

the injectors only have about 10,000 on them now..

Is there any real difference between JK high heats and heaths??

Can the computer be reprogrammed to a longer glow time???

Thanks Johnny
Just browsing...yes, we can program the ECM for a longer glow plug time factor. Really helps with cold starts...

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
 
#16 ·
Programmer - can PCM extended glow time be based on Intake Air Temperature or Engine Coolant Temperature sender input, to reduce glow duration with engine at operating temps, and in warm weather?
 
#18 ·
Correct - but in very cold weather, ECT can be at\near operating temp. while IAT will reflect very close to ambient, after shutdown. and at startup

Very cold ambients still require longer glow, even when ECT is at operating temp, because the intake air charge reaches the cylinders at low temperature.

I've noticed this condition results in advance and intermediate fast idle, when ECT is at 180-190deg, on OBD-I and OBD-II, using a Tech-II to display data.

Any thoughts on this?
 
#20 ·
Correct - but in very cold weather, ECT can be at\near operating temp. while IAT will reflect very close to ambient, after shutdown. and at startup

Very cold ambients still require longer glow, even when ECT is at operating temp, because the intake air charge reaches the cylinders at low temperature.

I've noticed this condition results in advance and intermediate fast idle, when ECT is at 180-190deg, on OBD-I and OBD-II, using a Tech-II to display data.

Any thoughts on this?
Good question...the code is very different from the Duramax, and you often see glowplug cycling even on a warm start with a 6.5TD. At any rate--it's completely adjustable at our end. The table is set up to reference only one item as near as I can tell...and I've always assumed ECT.
You could test this by shutting down, and disconnecting the IAT (for the next start event) to see if the glowplug strategy changes at the next startup.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
 
#19 ·
I have the WAP fast heat's and they keep burning out on me one by one, and I've been replacing them one by one with Delco 60G's as they burn out. I've been told I may have a glowplug controller problem, but I'm not agreeing with that until I see one of the 60G's burn out, and that hasn't happened yet. BTW, I installed the WAP's in November, and so far 5 out of the 8 have burnt out already.

In any case, I've got quite a bit of experience now with glowplugs, and I can say that when its below freezing, if you have even just ONE glowplug not working, you'll get quite a lot of smoke, missing and shuddering during cold start until that non-functioning glowplug cylinder builds up enough compression heat to finally fire, then it clears up. Two or three glowplugs not working only makes more smoke and shuddering. More than three glows not working usually leads to much longer cranking times when cold, AND a lot of smoke. Mix in a pair of weak batteries, and you'll be lucky if you start at all.

All I'm saying is, don't under-estimate glowplugs as a cause of a lot cold start problems and smoking. Check the glowplugs first, and 9 times out of 10, at least one of them isn't working, and causing your problem.

When all 8 glows are working, and with 2 new batteries, my truck has fired right up at 0F without being plugged in, with virtually no smoke and no missing or anything. Starts as quickly and easily as a new gasser when everything is working right. If even 1 glowplug quits, it doesn't start nearly as nicely.
 
#21 ·
well I tryed to start cold 26 ish with the (new) coolant temp switch unplugged and started right up no problems, this is the 2nd temp switch I got from gm. the plug is clean and i put dielectric grease in the plug... what gives? my ecm need to be re flashed?

Though i did see that the idle is up with it unplugged to about 1000rpm...
it would be nice to have it up that high so it will heat up faster.. and i did not get a ses light.

I am wondering if there is a short somewhere?

any ideas??

Johnny
 
#22 ·
When you pull the ECT, PCM thinks ambient is at max cold, extends glow duration, gives more advance and fuel for start.

Maybe the advance Timing Stepper Motor - Inj Pump, low on passenger-side - is stuck, or blocked.

Observe it for freedom of movement, up and down
 
#23 ·
hey gmctd,

how do i look at it though it's a 99 so it kinda tucked in there..

Johnny
 
#24 ·
Use a flashlite - you'll need to peer thru at an angle from the front of the truck over\under the t-stat crossover, depending on what's in the way..

The black motor is top, actuator rod beneath moves up and down 'bout a half inch total
 
#26 · (Edited)
Not dumb a'tall - I have suggested that in the past, but the caveat is unplug\plug any sensor into the PCM with power on could damage the PCM circuitry.

In this case, it is just a resistor, and so may not cause any problem.

Certainly would not want to do that with any of the active sensors, such as Boost, Baro, OPS, CPS, FSD, etc.

My suggested scheme had the max-cold value resistance switched into the ckt, substituting for the ECT resistance
 
#27 ·
that my be a idea...

Though I got my hands on a tech2 and my tdc is -0.94 I am wondering if that has a play in it... it should be -1.94 right???


What are your thoughts???

Johnny
PS is there any members around me (northern nj) what any of the start problems???

Later
 
#28 ·
You may have a good working set of glows, but not getting POWER to all of them. Check connections. If all test okay resistance wise, make sure that 12v is getting to the spades on top.
 
#29 ·
That TDCO is within workable range of -0.3 to -1.94deg.
 
#30 ·
found the problem I think (pump is on it's way out) The close time is like 2.3 just under the point of throwing a code 2.5.... pump has 55k on it...

Thanks for help though

Johnny
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top