Diesel Place banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
How is everybody doing?

Here is my problem.. Wen it is nice and cold out my 99 does not like the idea of starting...

First off I am running 5w 40 rotella synthetic


smokes and has a real bad miss

I have JK's Quick heat glow plugs in the truck now
as for new parts added:

*GM glow plug controller
*GM Glow plug wire harness
*GM coolant Temp switch (crossover pipe)
*GM air temp (intake after the turbo)

After I changed all those parts it runs 100% smother and less noise but still smokes and miss for the first .05 mins

The bat's are good load tested them starter cable I changed..
I am kinda thinking the starter is not spinning fast enough for it to start.. It just sounds slow to me...

Should I get a stock reman one form gm or get the "NEW factory type, gear reduction starter" from heath diesel?

My other question is
What would be the best glow plug I can put in for very cold starts??
Like 5 - 20 degrees?? 60G or the quick heats??

Thanks
Johnny
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
684 Posts
might try running a little additive to prevent some of the gelling? thats a low temp. Mine has problems that I think are from gelling, new 60g's in mine this winter, new glow plug controller last year, harness is good, still hard starting, my starter spins fast I think, unless batteries are low. I have also 2 new 1000 crankin amp batteries back in fall...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
... new 60g's in mine this winter...
That right there is your starting problem. I ran a set of those for about 8 months, and my truck started hard during the dog days of summer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Its probobally your injectors, not your starting system.

Are you plugging your block heater in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
Mine smokes for about 15-30 secs when it sits overnight. I have been told the injectors are due for replacement. Some guys wonder how it went this far w/o them being replaced (160k). It got down to the low 20s last night and it smoked and missed for about 30 secs this am. Once it runs and gets warm I have no issues. I did not use the block heater last night, but will tomm morn. I will post the results here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
684 Posts
That right there is your starting problem. I ran a set of those for about 8 months, and my truck started hard during the dog days of summer.
w_huisman - This is my first set of them, I got them from autozone and actually asked about it there, they won't warranty them even if they are bad...:mad: I am gonna pull them and test them, Going to put gauges in prob this weekend, got them, just haven't installed them yet, waiting till then, Will highly piss me off if they are bad again, be second set less than a year, last ones i had were quickies that were off of ebay.... wasn't impressed, 1 worked out of the 8 when i replaced them, and that one barely got warm...

I know it's been debated and beat to death but what do ppl believe is the longest lasting glow plug out there? I don't mind waiting and don't need the extra umph due to extreme cold, just want the suckers to last!!!:rant:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
The 60g's will last as long or longer than a lot of plugs, but require more glow time. If you install a manual glow button and give them an extra 5~10 seconds of glow, I'd bet your starting would improve immensely.

I changed them out because I didn't want to install a manual glow button.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,861 Posts
Which glows did you settle on, Wade?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,338 Posts
I'm currently these WAP's (Wellman Auto Products)... http://tinyurl.com/hhohl

I've had them in since about October. So far, so good. But I have a feeling that 60g's with a manual button would be even better. And others on this site say that Delphi makes good plugs too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,945 Posts
60G's are longer lasting because they are designed to operate at higher voltage - also means they will require longer glow cycles, even on warm days, because they do not glow as hot.

Any of the 'fast-heat', 'hi-heat' gp's are better choices, if not wanting to add manual glow switching.

Most have tested hotter, last longer than the 60's

SS, Kennedy, Heath, others
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
801 Posts
i installed new bosch injectors from napa in september and have had the dual coil glowplugs for about 2 years now. i havent plugged my truck in yet this winter and it starts easy first crank everytime. you might want to look at some new injectors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
I put in a set of WAPs too last fall and it improved my cold starts a little bit but not a bunch.

Here's an interesting twist to this though. After mine starts in the cold and is smoking like a steam engine and shuddering away, i turn the engine off after ~10 sec. I wait a second or two and then recycle the glows and start it again.....runs much smoother and no smoke at all???? Seems like a computer thing to me. Any thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Well I put a new starter/starter cable in and it does start Little sooner and faster but it still smokes for about 15 sec.

still cranks for about 3-5 sec though.. though it never started right up for new
and I still wonder why..

the injectors only have about 10,000 on them now..

Is there any real difference between JK high heats and heaths??

Can the computer be reprogrammed to a longer glow time???

Thanks Johnny
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Well I put a new starter/starter cable in and it does start Little sooner and faster but it still smokes for about 15 sec.

still cranks for about 3-5 sec though.. though it never started right up for new
and I still wonder why..

the injectors only have about 10,000 on them now..

Is there any real difference between JK high heats and heaths??

Can the computer be reprogrammed to a longer glow time???

Thanks Johnny
Just browsing...yes, we can program the ECM for a longer glow plug time factor. Really helps with cold starts...

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
Well I put a new starter/starter cable in and it does start Little sooner and faster but it still smokes for about 15 sec.

still cranks for about 3-5 sec though.. though it never started right up for new
and I still wonder why..

the injectors only have about 10,000 on them now..

Is there any real difference between JK high heats and heaths??

Can the computer be reprogrammed to a longer glow time???

Thanks Johnny
Have you tried plugging in the heater in the morning? I plugged mine in the am for about 1/2 hour and it helped the engine start...it still smoked but not as long and didn't shake and miss either. Tomorrow I will leave it in for 1 hr and see how it does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,945 Posts
Programmer - can PCM extended glow time be based on Intake Air Temperature or Engine Coolant Temperature sender input, to reduce glow duration with engine at operating temps, and in warm weather?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Programmer - can PCM extended glow time be based on Intake Air Temperature or Engine Coolant Temperature sender input, to reduce glow duration with engine at operating temps, and in warm weather?
I'm actually not sure exactly which sensor is #1 input for the glow plug timer, but IAT and ECT are normally very close anyway. ECT is used for startup...

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
Westers Garage
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,945 Posts
Correct - but in very cold weather, ECT can be at\near operating temp. while IAT will reflect very close to ambient, after shutdown. and at startup

Very cold ambients still require longer glow, even when ECT is at operating temp, because the intake air charge reaches the cylinders at low temperature.

I've noticed this condition results in advance and intermediate fast idle, when ECT is at 180-190deg, on OBD-I and OBD-II, using a Tech-II to display data.

Any thoughts on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
551 Posts
I have the WAP fast heat's and they keep burning out on me one by one, and I've been replacing them one by one with Delco 60G's as they burn out. I've been told I may have a glowplug controller problem, but I'm not agreeing with that until I see one of the 60G's burn out, and that hasn't happened yet. BTW, I installed the WAP's in November, and so far 5 out of the 8 have burnt out already.

In any case, I've got quite a bit of experience now with glowplugs, and I can say that when its below freezing, if you have even just ONE glowplug not working, you'll get quite a lot of smoke, missing and shuddering during cold start until that non-functioning glowplug cylinder builds up enough compression heat to finally fire, then it clears up. Two or three glowplugs not working only makes more smoke and shuddering. More than three glows not working usually leads to much longer cranking times when cold, AND a lot of smoke. Mix in a pair of weak batteries, and you'll be lucky if you start at all.

All I'm saying is, don't under-estimate glowplugs as a cause of a lot cold start problems and smoking. Check the glowplugs first, and 9 times out of 10, at least one of them isn't working, and causing your problem.

When all 8 glows are working, and with 2 new batteries, my truck has fired right up at 0F without being plugged in, with virtually no smoke and no missing or anything. Starts as quickly and easily as a new gasser when everything is working right. If even 1 glowplug quits, it doesn't start nearly as nicely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Correct - but in very cold weather, ECT can be at\near operating temp. while IAT will reflect very close to ambient, after shutdown. and at startup

Very cold ambients still require longer glow, even when ECT is at operating temp, because the intake air charge reaches the cylinders at low temperature.

I've noticed this condition results in advance and intermediate fast idle, when ECT is at 180-190deg, on OBD-I and OBD-II, using a Tech-II to display data.

Any thoughts on this?
Good question...the code is very different from the Duramax, and you often see glowplug cycling even on a warm start with a 6.5TD. At any rate--it's completely adjustable at our end. The table is set up to reference only one item as near as I can tell...and I've always assumed ECT.
You could test this by shutting down, and disconnecting the IAT (for the next start event) to see if the glowplug strategy changes at the next startup.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top