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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,
Since my dually is out to pasture until I either decide to fix the trans. or sell it, I'm down to just the 'Burb for my daily driver.
While I was toying with the idea of dragging my Rabbit pickup out of the corner of the shop and getting it roadworthy, my buddy calls me up and says he found a '92 parts truck that supposedly had a good transmission that would fit my dually. $200 bucks and it's yours.
:cool2:
Off we go to check it out.
Well, turns out it was a '92 C1500 with a blown 6.2 and a 700-R4 (4L60).
Nice truck! Silverado, 111,000 mi., 2 owner with good maintaince, no rust, nice rubber, and a clean interior.
The owner claimed new brakes, trouble free trans., and cold A/C. (time will tell...)

My soon to be new daily driver!
Cash traded hands, and we were headed home.

Ok, into the shop and I start taking inventory of what I'll need to get it going.
Right off the bat, I see there's a gaping rip the size of the grand canyon in the front of the oil pan.....Censored not a good start.
With that, even trying to coax it to turn over was out of the question. Best save what turning there was left for getting the converter bolts out!

I just finished pulling the engine right before supper tonight, and before I left, I dropped the pan for a look-see.
It appears that the block (#599):ro) and crank may have survived, but #1 piston and rod are toast. The rod failed about 1 1/2" down from the small end, with the piston ending up in the top of the cylinder.
Interestingly, the shrapnel in the pan contained, along with the usual broken pieces of rod and piston skirt, one single pushrod, all wound up like a pretzel.
The rod bearing looked a little flakey, but the crank journal looks like nothing ever happened.

My question is........WTH happened??
I don't think this was a typical bottom end failure, I think the motor somehow dropped a pushrod into a spinning crank and danced it's way into the path of #1 connecting rod.
I suspect tomorrow, when I pull the right valve cover off, I"ll find one of those "quality engineered" nylon rocker retainers laying broken in the head!
Think it's savable?
Any thoughts?

Mike
 

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Inspect everything very closely, but it sound like it could be salvageable. How does the bore look in the failed cylinder? I am also leaning towards seeing a dropped valve as the cuprit. Check the main webs carefully and check the crank carefully, that is a lot of force on one journal to break a rod, especially in the front of the engine since most crank failures are right after the number 2 throw. Let us know what you find.
 

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By the sounds of this, I was lucky just having a bent rod due to the failure of one of those plastic pieces of "poop". It just dropped down into the head and ran like crap but did not seem to do any major damage(that I've seen yet)(need a knock on wood "smile")):h .
Hope all works out well with yours, you have the best block out there provided it's not damaged.

Mark
 

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If you would like HardRock, i will take that rabbit pickup off ur hands if you like, send me a pm.
 

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Yup, I just tossed my 6.2! It's an '86 'burban 1/2t 4x4 w/Banks turbo 20 years(?) Bodies real bad, left barn door won't even open unless I lift it up big time.
So it burns lots of oil, 166k, infrequent maintenance, and I've been a little hard on her. I bought it in the spring to plow snow, but it's so comfy and reliable!
I was coming back from almost NYC, 500 miles return, and 35 miles from home, 65mph in OD, level ground, KABLOOEY! I heard a rattling and instantly shut 'er down. Poppped the hood, and alt belt is stuck in the fan, pulled it out and told my friend following in a $300 Hyundai off of eBay that at least I didn't blow the motor! NOT!!!
Hit the key, and she wasn't happy. Cranked realslow, and when she fired, rappin big time. Oh well.
So no dent in the pan, still runs, but next time it turns will be to undo flywheel bolts. Oil pressure was never high, but I was running med weight Rotella synthetic. I'm guessing a piston melted from years of boost. Any ideas? I'm going to crooze the forums for blown 6.2's.
Oh yeah, went on a frantic search that night and found an '87 3/4t 4x4 6.2 with moderate rust, needing lotsa' TLC. Drove 125 miles in a sleet storm in a badly mis-aligned Hyundai to be first in line. It worked! Here it is http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee_files/attachments/3/6/1/3611012621/3611012621_100_0873.JPG?ts=43DCE9A2&key=4D6DC27C4D1EA5A59E9C662D1DFC69D8&referrer=http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/ga/ul/4611012621/100_0873.JPG. It's a little worse than it looks. ALL body mount bolts are rotted off, lotsa tinkering to be undone, broken trans (TH400) to engine bolts right handside, etc... Maybe I'll put the 700R4 in instead, and the 6.2 from a PU in the 1/2t. Too many proj......
 

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I'm guessing a piston melted from years of boost. Any ideas? I'm going to crooze the forums for blown 6.2's.
You're gonna hate me for saying this, but maybe you broke a crank. Bad news. Or maybe it's something real simple, you never know...
 

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High, Sierra; Would the engine still start with a broken crank? It turned real slow, and it wasn't overheating. The rap sounded like a rod clanging away, real fast. Like a baseball card on a bicycle spoke. If I woud've known what to expect, I would've had my digital camera on movie/sound mode. But who woulda' thunk... :(
One of these days, I'll pull the pan, but first the turbo xover pipe has to come off, and I've got projects up the yingyang... including the "new" '87 3/4ton... :rant:
 

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Would the engine still start with a broken crank?
Sure. I've known engines that ran for many miles with a broken crank. They'll start and run but bang and knock like nobody's business.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi all,
Got busy over the weekend and didn't get the heads off yet.
All the engine stands in the shop are full right now, so I'll have to shuffle thing around.

D. Camilleri may be right, I my have a surprise waiting for me in the top end!
Whatever the case, I'd like to see the 599 and the crank come out OK.

Hey Chicago TDP!
Glad to see another fellow "Caddy" owner on here!
Since the fuel crisis, I've been hoarding back all the cheap GM and VW diesel stuff I can come across, checking out the biodiesel sites, etc.
My '82 LX is a keeper, but with my 6'2" 250lb. frame, I may find myself stretched out in the Chevy most of the time!

palemale,
You sound like me......a 'Burb driver with....too many projects.......!!
BTW, a fella just called with a '82 6.2 K-20 for sale cheap.
If it's a red motor, and it runs,.........oh well, you know
how that goes!! I'll find a use for it sometime.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, I finally made some room and got the engine down to where I could pull the valve covers.
Here's what I found.......... #3 lost a retaining button on an intake rocker, and the #8 intake was just about to walk away next.

Two questions before I decide to spend any cash on repairs or just drop in another complete running 6.2.

1.) When I have the crank checked out, and should it need it,........ is turning a 6.2/6.5 crank even acceptable?
I understood them to all be "nitrided" cranks. At what point does the overlay disappear?

2.) Can I use the early 6.2 rocker/rockershaft setup on the later heads? I haven't looked lately, but I thought those were cast rockers and had a different retaining setup.

Thanks,
Mike
 

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You can use the early rockers if you want, direct bolt on. Some people don't like them, because they think they had problems, I don't agree, they are bronze bushed and as long as engine was maintained propperly I have taken them out with lots of miles and no noticeable wear in the bushings. I have heard of a few breaking the shaft however, but I have never seen it myself. If you are in need of some cast rockers, let me know, I have a good set sitting on the bench and I think I have a good oil pan and some rods and pistons.......
As far as the cranks go, I don't think they are nitrided. I have had good luck turning them .010 under, the important thing is to make sure that the radius isn't completely removed.
 

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Here's what I found.......... #3 lost a retaining button on an intake rocker said:
Tell me more about the 'ROCKER RETAINING BUTTONS'... and what happens...
 

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Tell me more about the 'ROCKER RETAINING BUTTONS'... and what happens...
They are junk! They will break off and allow the rocker arm to jump away off of the valve and rod thus allowing the rod to go somewhere, in my case it went down into the head. He looks to have much worse damage than I did. We replaced that rod and all 16 rocker retainers and she ran great after that. I guess I was just lucky. I also just had the injectors swapped and the IP as well, so it should have run great..

Mark
 

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So does that mean I should be doing some surgery on my "new" 87 w/171k??? Tell me more about exactly what to change and new parts from where?
I'll wait till spring to poke at the rusty 86. Still not sure why it cranked slowly after the rap session. What would have been binding??? But it still started...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
After viewing this catasthrophy, I'll be figuring out a "new" way to stabilize the valvetrain on all the other 6.2/6.5's I'm running! I'd be really PO'd if this happened to my TD.

I'm thinking maybe machine some tougher, thicker buttons out of that white plastic butcher block material and
keep'em in place with stainless washers and rivets.

There's a thread on here somewhere about bolting on some machine washers in place of the OEM buttons.
They're not really load bearing or anything, they just keep the rockers centered over the valve.

What bends my needle is, I'm starting to think this motor might not have as many miles as the truck shows.
I noticed the rods and caps are number stamped, there's still visible crosshatch in the cylinders, it's really too clean for 100,000 miles, and it appears to have a '94 timing cover on it!
Someone RTV'd the hole shut for the '94-up crank sensor??

BTW, heads are off and no sign of piston/valve contact.
Heads look great. I think I'm going to go ahead and do up the shortblock and put it back on the road.

D. Camilleri,
I may give you a shout on that pan, if I can't dig one up locally. All the pans I have are for the '91-back two-piece rear seal type blocks. The pans are different, right?

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #16
UPDATE!!!

Well, after some "think" time, I've just about decided to go another direction with this project......Opinions requested.

OK, since this 599 block is so sweet, with no visible web cracks or damage, and since it appears to have led a real cushy, well maintained life as a N/A 6.2 in a low stress 1/2 ton, and.........

since I've been entertaining thoughts of eventually going 18:1 with my 6.5TD,...................I've decided to bag this "gently seasoned" short block up and put it on the shelf.
As hard as these blocks seem to be to come by, I really can't justify using it up for a daily driver.

Would this be a good foundation for an IC'd 18:1 6.5TD with moderate boost? (14-16 psi.)

BTW, this 599 6.2 block does have the front turbo oil feed factory tapped and just plugged, so that won't be a problem.

My reasoning is..............
#1 Even though my 6.5TD has always been fairly trouble-free, I've never had it opened up. I can't say for CERTAIN that that 599 block DOESN'T have some cracks starting.
(214,000 mi. in a C-3500 dually, lots of towing)
If it does, I'll be searching for another block, then, anyway.

#2 That would leave my (above) existing 6.5TD long block available to drop in this 1/2 ton daily driver configured as a standard N/A 6.5.

#3 In the end, it eliminates the un-necessary building of one engine, and allows more resources to go to the 18:1TD motor.

Surely, if it could spend it's remainder life without the stress of a turbo and 4:10 gears, it may live quite a bit longer still, cracks or no cracks. (crossed fingers!)

I'll be shelving my DB2-4911 pump, lines, and injectors along with the complete GM-3 turbo setup right along with this good 6.2 599 block. (future 18:1 6.5TD project)

Now,.............
Will this N/A6.5 be happy with the 6.2 injectors?
I'm thinking all the N/A injectors are the same, except the coarse threaded '82's. TD's having different injectors.
Correct?
I'll be looking for a "J" code intake and running true 2 1/2" duals.
I'm a little short on pump selection, as all my spares are "C" code pumps from '83-'87 trucks.
(I'm favoring the one I have from a '90 C-2500 6.2
It should be a "J" code???)
Then there's the original '92 6.2 "C" code pump it came with.
My primary concern is mileage and reliability first, extra ponies, a close second.

Does this sound like a reasonable swap around?
Any compatibility issues I'm not seeing?
Both trucks/engines are '92's.

Also, not to make a long thread any longer, but what about the heads?
This 6.2 has real nice heads......#567, no cracks.
Would they be good for the 18:1 build up, or are there better heads for that particular application?
I have no idea what heads are on my 6.5TD, but before I let them, or these slip away, figured I'd ask.

Thanks a bunch! This site has a wealth of great information and several extremely knowledgeable members!
Mike
 

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I'd put the engine back into the truck.

Get a set of Portland Engine Builders Custom rocker arms (the ones with the rivets and custom washers)

If you're worried about the block cracking, go ahead and get DSG's stud girdle kit for the block, it's extra insurance. FYI, if a block is going to crack, then it's going to do it whether n/a or turbo, although more turbo engines do find cracks.

What other damage is present in the engine?

How does the piston look that had the rod break?
How does the cylinder wall on the cylinder that the rod break look (any scores)?

All I'm saying, is that if you can get away with installing:

New crank and bearings
New Rod, and piston (and rings for this hole)
Checking the head that had the problem, replace valves if necessary.

The put the engine back together, I'd say why not?

You're leaving it n/a right?

Might as well leave it 6.2 bore, instead of boring the engine out .080 to have the 6.5 bore diameter. Remember, thicker cylinder walls are a good thing... This block will have the THICKEST cylinder walls of any of them at 6.2 specs.

Just my Humble Opinions..

J
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hey chevydiesel!
Saw those the other day. They look like a good solution.

Really no other damage except a small "bruise" on the inside edge of the pan rail, and a tiny chip out of the cam.
Cyls. look great!
Actually, if it weren't for having to have the crank checked for twist, one hole is all that needs attention.
No piston to valve contact, didn't even scratch the carbon!

For now, the 6.5 from my dually is going in the 1/2 ton.
(N/A, of course)
599's this nice are too hard to find, at least around here, anyway.
I was thinking it had been rebuilt, as clean and unworn as it is, but it has all std. stuff and factory GM bearings.
Also, I would have bet it had the original pump, but it turns out is was fitted with a #4977 "J" code unit at some point. Probably a random replacement.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Off hand, does anyone know what this #4977 pump was originally spec'd for?

Also have one from a '90 C-2500 with #4779 "J".
It was on old 2WD state truck with a TH400 and 4:10's.
One better suited than the other?

Mike
 

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You can use the early rockers if you want, direct bolt on. Some people don't like them, because they think they had problems, I don't agree, they are bronze bushed and as long as engine was maintained propperly I have taken them out with lots of miles and no noticeable wear in the bushings. I have heard of a few breaking the shaft however, but I have never seen it myself. If you are in need of some cast rockers, let me know, I have a good set sitting on the bench and I think I have a good oil pan and some rods and pistons.......
As far as the cranks go, I don't think they are nitrided. I have had good luck turning them .010 under, the important thing is to make sure that the radius isn't completely removed.
Tell me more? how early?
 
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