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Discussion Starter #1
I thought that I would start a new topic with this information. I posted my dyno results on another thread here (banks six gun with speed loader, feels slower than bully dog). The Banks numbers were so underwhelming that I talked to the people at Banks to find out why. I spoke with a person who does their dyno testing and faxed over my results with the graphs. He told me that they have had a problem with some of their switches that adjust the power levels, and my results are consistent with what they have seen for a truck like mine running on power level 3, not 6. This would explain a lot!

I also got into a discussion on how they do their testing compared to how I did mine. Banks prefers to do what he called a step down test in which they run the truck at a certain RPM and then load the dyno in steps requiring the engine to make more and more power to keep that RPM. The test I performed, and think is more common, is to run the truck thru an acceleration test. Programming for acceleration versus torque back-up are two different things. This would explain why there are differences in feel between boxes.

I have had the Edge Juice in my truck long enough to get a good feel for how it performs. It is great! I will swap in the Banks Six-Gun and Speed-Loader when the new switch arrives and let you know what I think. I won’t be able to dyno test right away. I will try to make the Dyno Day at K&S Diesel on May 22<SUP>nd</SUP> to get hard numbers.

Don’t give up on Banks yet! They have been around too long and have an excellent track record of quality products. Admittedly I feel that they have been more conservative in their products targeting “older” folks who want to tow a trailer and not have to worry about durability issues with their vehicles. There is no shame in that. I do know that Banks is planning to expand on their “Performance Parts” line for the people who want to take their trucks to the extreme. The knowledge is there, and hopefully there will be a market to support such products.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun:
 

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A switch is very simple to test. All it does is connect two points together so if you have an DVM set it to check ohms then put the two probes on one wire each on the back of the switch. On most switches you will see several connection points with one in the center. As you rotate the switch the connection will move from the center post to each of the outer post. The meter will read the connection. Once you find the connection move the switch and the outer probe to a new post and find the connection again. Each switch position should connect to a different spot. If they do then the switch is fine.


Also your dyno graphs look pretty much the same as others that have test the 6 gun.Edited by: Diesel Tech
 

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I haven't seen your dyno graphs, where are they?





I ran mine on levels 1-6 and back to 5, then 6, and saw changes every time. The results were solid, but less than stellar. As for driving impressions, no comment.





I'm still waiting to find out how it can be run on a 6 speed truck, OR an auto who does not want the TCC wires tapped...
 

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Hardware design problems with those new fangled analog switches.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The actual graphs were not posted, only the results.

JK check your fax machine. It should be spitting out a bunch of paper after I stop getting the busy signal.

DT thanks for the idea. I hooked up my Ohm meter and here are the results. I will let you know if the new switch they send me is any different, but according to your theory, which makes sense, this switch should be good.

1) 27.90
2) 12.12
3) 6.67
4) 3.74
5) 2.05
6) 0.88

Huck
 

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In all of the tests done on the Six-Gun in this forum, they have run it through levels 1-6. On each level, the torque and hp numbers are different. Meaning that, so far, all of the switches have worked. This reminds me of when Banks said that the procedure was different when setting up the switch for the speedloader. First it was with the engine off, then it was with the engine running. End result? Nada. Same thing here. If you look at the hp and torque graphs right on you Six-Gun box, do you see how it drops like a *(&^&*^% after 1900rpm? Hp and torque down low don't make a fast truck. If you look at every other module/programmer graph, the hp and tq keep climbing UP, while the Banks drops DOWN. Trust me, the new switch will not do anything. Since I'm parking mine in a week for the summer, I'll wait it out and buy their "RACE BOX" they said they're working on. I'm not trying to put down Banks, but it's just not a fast module. I'm sure it works awesome pulling heavy loads with no worries, but I just need something that's FAST.
 

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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNABLE="off"> I'M JUST SITTN BACK AND WATCHING. I REALLY LIKE THE SAFETY OF THE BANKS. I HOPE THE NEW RACE BOX HAS THE SAME GOALS FOR SAFETY, WILL IT COLLIN?
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My friend has the six gun on his dmax, and he doesn't like at all in power, I went to banks couple of weeks ago, their like 30 min. away. I talked to the guy and he said that they are limitted a lot because they are in Ca. and the epa or someone checks on them very frequently. Is this the same as for Edge or any other companies not in Ca.
 

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Edge has a label on the carton with the "legal in CA for off road use only" statement.
 

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sky1,


Our race box is almost to the point of release. I'll get some detail from our engineering dept. and post it as soon as I can.


LBZrcks,


Please have your friend e-mail me. Maybe he can stop by and let us take a look at his truck.
 

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is there anybody that knows about any bad points about the Edge juice because I'm really close to gettin one for my LLY as soon as I can. can it hurt the Allison or is it pretty safe as long as your not runnin it to death
 

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colin,


i have the banks six gun with speed loader and a banks monster exhaust on my '04. i previously had the edge box on my '02 duramax and feel that the six gun with speed loader is somewhat lacking in power.


i called banks and spoke to a guy in your tech department and he had no idea of the race box you are speaking of. he had someone else call me back and he said he will find out and call me back and i have not received a call yet since monday.


is this new race box you are speaking of compatible with the six gun? will i have to buy a new box or is it an upgrade to the six gun?


please fill me in as i am unhappy with my current setup and am looking to replace it with an edge box but will consider keeping it if it is a simple upgrade.


thanks,


andrew
 

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Collin,


I have visited your website and read your plain white wrapper publication in regards to the 6-gun several times. It appears you have put safety as your number 1 factor when designing the 6-gun. You state that you limit turbo speed to 124000 RPM, limit rail pressure to 26K and monitor transmission slippage down to 3%.


Are your products overly safe? What can happen to a dmax when these factors are not accounted for?


Onto another topic. I constantly here this backround noise about differnt dyno testing procedures. We have all seen how your product fairs when compared to the EDGE on the common "acceleration" type of dyno test. How does the Edge compare to the 6-gun on your type of dyno test?


Have you ever ran and Edge on level 5 on your type of dyno test? What were the results? Was there any engine or tranny damge? What were the EGT's? Edited by: Bronco
 

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BlueCrew 04 D/A SB GMC;


Any of the boxes can and will do damage to the tranny, engine, and other drive line parts if you run the plss out of the truck. Some (as in the Juice, and Banks along with others) help to protect different things such as the transmission. But just remember that the transmission will wear out regardless if it is stock and run easy. So when power is added it will accelerate part wearing out. (No matter what protection it has)


Power adons are like alcohol, use it in moderation! Sometimes I baby my truck for weeks on end, then other times, I can`t seam to keep my foot off the floor board. But I know I am doing damage to every part of the truck, and that it will not last forever. I just enjoy it while I can



And yes the Juice has bad points, they all do! Some has problems with the Juice when it rains, others have problems with the new gauge, and yet others have problems with the power, or lack of it.


I had an early Juice, and didn`t like it and it didn`t like my truck. But that was a while back. Most do not have trouble with it.


I was waiting to get feed back about the Banks 6-gun before I made my next purchase. It is looking like I will be making the Hot Juice with an Additude my choice. To me the Banks has fell far below what they were spoutin` off about. It is far from being the MOST POWERFUL ADD ON for our trucks.


Banks shoud have stated that the 6-gun has more power then anyother box they build for the Duramax. Then they would not be lieing. I have looked at several dyno charts and no matter how you look at it (Unless it is like Golf, as in the lowest score wins!) they are commiting fraud with their advertising.Edited by: hdmax
 

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hdmax,

“To me the Banks has fell far below what they are spoutin’ off about.”

If by spoutin’ off you mean advertising let me correct you. As Peter T. has explained, we use a different type of dyno test that nets different results than are common at a typical dyno day event. If you’d like, I will have Peter post our results to show you how we come to our conclusions.

“Banks shoud have stated that the 6-gun has more power then anyother box they build for the Duramax. Then they would not be lieing. I have looked at several dyno charts and no matter how you look at it (Unless it is like Golf, as in the lowest score wins!) they are commiting fraud with their advertising.

If by lieing you mean “lying”, I don’t appreciate your accusation. I probably don’t have to tell you this, but automotive aftermarket companies will not last 46 years if their advertising campaign is built on lies. “Committing fraud” is a strong accusation, maybe one you should refrain from making until you learn how to spell the word “Committing”.
 

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HEY ALL OF THIS NON SENSE IS GREAT BUT WHAT ABOUT MY QUESTIONS?


Were they not valid? Were they not relevant?


Colin please answer all of my questions to the best of your abillaty. I did not accuse you anything other than possiblly building an overly safe unit. Could be due to EPA . Could be be due to Banks not wanting to hurt any vehicle at any all***ude.


I just want some facts and comparrisons.


I have heard rumors that a Egde on level 5 at high all***ude would heat up and spin the turbo to quick. Is this true? Will your box do the same?


I have heard rumors that the Edge on level 5 on your type of dyno test would have a melt down. Is this true? Will your box have a melt down as well? Will any box have a melt down on your type of dyno test?
 

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Bottom line is when you look at the numbers hdmax is completely correct with his statements. You can't even rule out fraud because the numbers are speaking out loud and clear and they are far below what is advertised. This looks like a case of the desire to edge out the compe***ion. Probably explains why the reported numbers are just over those reported by EDGE. Difference is that the EDGE box meets their advertised numbers and even exceeds them in most cases. I wonder how many of these boxes were sold to innocent people and profited from based on the information that was advertised. Stating your number of years in buisness and pointing out someone's spelling is no defense at all. The honest thing to do would be to correctly advertise the product or meet the numbers advertised. Plain and simple. Free upgrades or discounts for the people involved should not be out of the question. JMHO


Edited by: a bear
 

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Does anyone know of a Dmax that destroyed a turbo that wasn't modified? I bet you can't overspool one with any of the common power boxes unless you modify the wastegate. Banks provides the hardware for such modification and so they should be more concerned about turbo speed than others.


Honestly though most automotive performance product claims are BS. Look at intakes, exhaust, fuel additives, ect. They don't provide nearly the power increases that they claim for those of us in real world situations. Banks hasn't done anything except continue with an accepted marketing practice that is decades old.


There are some exceptions like Edge, of which I have had two boxes which both exceded my expectations and had zero problems. --SS
 

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You know what bugs me about the Banks box - people are getting sucked in to the advertising and the brand name behind it, and taking it as face (advertising) value. My cousin was one such "victim"...


I've not posted bashing the Banks previously (there were more than enough people doing that), but Colin's post was completely out of line. HDMAX made a couple spelling mistakes - WHOOPEE - are you that immature that 1/2 your argument is putting down someones spelling mistakes?


Yes, you test differently... ARE YOU SAYING ON YOUR TEST THAT IT OUTPERFORMS THE EDGE? If so, show it. I don't think you have the b*lls or nerve, let alone the Quad or TST.


Why else would you be releasing a "Race box"? You must realize that your box falls short (and I am paraphrasing here) "of the most powerful add-on" for the Duramax.


Grow up Banks. Your brand name will sell more than your share of boxes, and it might be a good product FOR WHAT IT IS, but not what you're advertising it as. Count me as one completely turned off (& ticked) consumer...
 
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