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Discussion Starter #1
I am new here a did a fair amount of searching and reading on the subject of DFA and Emulsification Vs De". The question I have is if Deemulisification allows the water to set at the bottom of the tank, filters etc and rust Then in the Emulsification aren't you sending water molicules through your injecters and water blasting them at ove 20,000 psi ??? Getting balder by the minute on this one.
 

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A non-experts opinion:


By dropping the water in your tank and filter, it will still get picked up and moved through the system just by the vibrations and road bumps. Long term it may have more of an effect.


By emusifying, you are bonding the water to the fuel. So it does not send a blob of water through. This happens on a very small scale. In my opinion, it is such a small scale your injectors would not see any effects from this. And again, emusifiers will not pick up tons of water. You get a bad tank and it will not bond it all to the fuel.... Try it in a glass, put mostly fuel.. some additive.... then add water, mix it up...... see how much water it will take.... Make sure to do it drops at a time... cause it wont bond much..... add more additive... see what happens....


Getting it out is much better in my opinion than leaving it there....
 

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Discussion Starter #4
George, Firstly I want to say thanx for the rapid delivery of my Delvac 1 last week
Its always nice to deal with some one whose buisiness is fast and friendly. I sure wish you could elaborate on this issue a bit more though. I assume that their is more water in Diesel fuel than most of us realize. Does Primrose Chemically encapsulate the water molicules as they pass through the injectors ? My concern is always getting that one bad tank of fuel and of course condensation and other crud that gets in the fuel tank.
 

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The use of Primrose 405 or other emulsifying diesel fuel additive provides continuous protection from free water fallout, system corrosion from free water and bacteria colony prevention as bacteria cannot grow without a free water/diesel boundary. However, emulsifying diesel additives provide protection only for normal entrained water levels. All diesel fuel contains some level of entrained water, varing from as low as 20 ppm up to through 100 ppm.
If a person purchases diesel fuel with an extreme amount of water (above 200 ppm), emulsifier capability is exceeded and water protection/separation is now left to the OEM water separator.
George Morrison
 

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I don't have Primrose available in my area, so I've been using FPPF. I've heard (they claim) that it can emulsify it's volume in water. Is this a true statement?


cadman_ks
 

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In my mind, emulsifying its volume, would be hard to prove. Since diesel has water in it already, you would have to figure out how much, and then add the difference of that amount and the amount of additive... That would be fun to work on in a lab.. My opinion is it sounds like a lot of water to emulsify.


GC, does any of this stuff have the good alcohols in it? Not Absolute, or Jack.... Ya know, the ones that are Ok to clean up an emergency water problem in a tank of diesel? Or am out in left field on this
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This what I dont understand. Do theese types simply suspend the water or encapsulate the water molecules to prevent a water jet effect on the injectors ? With the stanadyne type are you guys saying that it seperates out ALL water includeing the stuff in the fuel or just excess like condensation ? Also I am wondering George if you reccomend an occasional dose of something extra to get out any possible excess water from poor fuel ? My very uneducated observations are wondering how a product such as Primrose that is so concentratred can match the abilitys of another like FPPF. I am not trying to put ant products down just trying to gather enough info to make a more informed descion.
 

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Regardless of additive type.. emul or demul, they can only handle minute amounts of water.

You still need to trap the visible size amounts.
 

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BlueMaxxxx said:
... My very uneducated observations are wondering how a product such as Primrose that is so concentratred can match the abilitys of another like FPPF. ....

FPPF is very concentrated as well. I'm using the Fuel Power, and you only use 1oz per 25gal.


cadman_ks


PS: Using FPPF HAS increased my fuel economy. I too do not totally understand how it works, but don't really care if it captures water AND increases my fuel economy...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yes I understand both are highly concentrated, but looking at them both the Primrose treats 87 gallons more per bottle. It seems that you are adding less volume of additive with the primrose. So the question I guess I am getting at is HOW do you get the rest of the water out in other than normal doses ? Just by draining the water seperator ? Do You guys do this in between fuel filter canges or is the dummy light in the dash all everyone is relying on. I am wondering if others do some periodic heavy doseing to get that out. In short the debate seems centered on weather or not its better to run finer amounts of water through the injectors over a period of time Vs the calculated risk of getting a dose of raw water through with the De emulsifyer. But then if their is excess water you run that risk either way ?
 

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I like the conversation, but I think I watched a comercial on laundry soap that fits in. Their theme is dont look at the sticker price look at gallons treated, then divided that by sticker price to get the price per gallon treated. Im sure it would be huge for a company to sell less concentrated additive and make the customer think they are getting more bank for the buck. I use Power Service and I think its somewhere around 2.5 oz per 25 gals.


Better yet we could compare this way... if you were to get the best buzz from a beverage.... Would you choose a half glass of vodka or a half glass of beer?
 

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I have a r60 primary with a water separator, and I have drained it looking for water, and NEVER found any. My filters are clean from rust... Life seems to be good...


Don't take this too far.... First, do you have proof that the fuel quality in your area is bad? I read more about stations putting gas in the diesel than water being in a tank. I know it happens but you have systems set up to find it and take care of it.


I think- Any additive is better than no additive.... Plus there are so many opinions... Take one that makes sense to you and run with it...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I see your point on the detergent but I was not referring to the cost factor but if 1 0z of 1 treats 8 gallons and 1 0z of the other treats 12+ gallons I am wondering just how effecaceous the second example can be at suspending water. I have run Power service in my tractor a good long time but I have no clue what type of additive it is or even if it has alcahol in it. So after I run out my stock on that I wont buy it again. The long and the short of it is I decided to go with the FPPF and Cetane boost. As far as getting water at the pump, it is this rare occurance in my view that could instantly cause more damage than a lot of treated fuel from either side of the fence. Now if I knew what station and where this was going to happen it would of course not be a concern. One of things I am going to do is get an auxillary tank so I can have a more reliable fuel source ( hopefully). This of course all relates to how much you drive OTR or if always the same places and how many miles per year. After reading the "How many miles on your Max" post I am blown away that so many who drive so little Pony up for a Diesel. Edited by: BlueMaxxxx
 

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Back to the soap.. How well will the more concentrated soap clean your clothes... What do trust more to clean your clothes... Tide or Wisk....


George will know
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Just curious if thats the case why do you wash with brand X ?
 

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The Primrose 405 and 409 (winter treatment) are indeed "industrial strength" fuel additives intended primarily for commercial use. Many of the consumer diesel fuel additives sitting on truck stop shelves are a mixture/dilution of 10% fuel additive with 90% diesel fuel..
George
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Georege, Once again many thanx for your concise anawsers. Some of this stuff is difficult at best to understand. I like to know the ins and outs of what I am useing. I placed another order from you today for more MOBIL 1 Goodies but I did decide to give the FPPF and cetane boost a try from Eric. Any one who has not yet ordered from one of theese guys is chaeting them selves out of first class products and service. After My first order from George I got a emial from his office thanking me for my buisiness. I almost fell off my chair. Its been a LONG time since I have done buisiness with people as good as those on this forum.
 

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I really think thats what it comes down to. Use what your comfortable with... You seem to be and emulsifier if i can stereotype you
..... I think its about marketing from there on... one is more concentrated, the other has more filler.....


Personally, I have chose Power Service cause they are easy for me to get.... Ok in the price.... and it seems to work well with my filter inspections....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I am not a big fan of BS. I dont know exactly what you are getting at with the stereo type stuff. I have used Power Service a long time. I just get lost on the point of useing a product that is completely unkown as to whether or not it is a emulisifier or a De emulsifier or even if it contains Alcahol and apparently has the most filler of all. After reading the Power Service spin off non answer it pretty told me everything I needed to know about it. Both FPPF and Primrose are non alcahol based so theres where my choices lied Vs. Stanadyne. I chosen to listen and act upon the advice of the experts. Many thanx for their assistance.
 
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