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Discussion Starter #1
This weekend I installed an ATS kit for the Allison. After finishing the install, the Allison will not go in any forward gear, but will go into reverse.


It seemed like thing went really well overall. There were only three things that were unexpected.

1.) It was much harder than expected to get the C3 snap ring back in.
2.) The new solenoid pushed the shallow pan pickup too close to the pan, and the pan would not seat properly. We had to remove the front two dimples on the pickup to get the pan to seat. This may be limiting the Allison’s ability to get fluid from the pan at a quick enough rate. If this was it, all I would need to do is buy the deep pan, but that a lot of money for a “What If”.
3.) The factory internal harness has a green wire that just loops from one pin on the 20-pin connector back to another pin on the same connector. The ATS harness had a green wire that just ended, and did not loop back. Perhaps this wire got pulled out during shipment, and was not intended to just end.

I will be calling ATS on Monday to see if they have any ideas. Any opinions on what could cause no forward gear to work? There are no check engine lights.
<P
 

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I believe C3 is the one with coiled ring that goes on before the snap ring. It's very important not to let the coil overlap itself.


Your codes indicate and electrical problem. Do you get any gears with the plug disconnected? You should have 3rd and reverse.Edited by: GMCSID
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I might have edited my post as you were replying. I edited it because I think the code only appeared when I switched fron the Co-pilot connector back to the stock connector. I thought the key was out of the ignition, but it was still in the accessory position, and after I reset the codes, they did not come back.


Do you think it might be #3 listed above? I tried your test, and yes, I get D3 and R with the TCM disconnected, and still no forward gears with it conected. I drove around the block, and short of it not shifting, it was a very smooth ride with not internal noises in the Allison. We followed the C3 install instructions to the letter, and had many pictures to follow.
 

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<TABLE width="100%" border=1><A name=tab1-1387625></A>
<H4>Here is the pinnout for the trans connector. I don't see where a green wire loops back to the connector. The 2 green wires here need to be seperate. Maybe you can compare this to yours.</H4>
<H4>Automatic Transmission Inline Harness - C175 (Transmission Side)</H4><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=center align=middle colSpan=4>


</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=center align=middle colSpan=2>


Connector Part Information</TH>
<TH vAlign=center align=left colSpan=2>
<UL ="BULLET">
<LI>12160782
<LI>20-Way M Micro-Pack 100 Series (GRY) </LI>[/list]</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>


Pin</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>


Wire Color</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>


Circuit No.</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom align=middle>


Function</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


A</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


DK GRN </TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1222</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


Shift Solenoid C Valve Control</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


B</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


YEL/BLK</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1223</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


Shift Solenoid D Valve Control</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


C</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


PNK</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


839</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


12 Volt Reference</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


D</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


LT GRN</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1224</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


Fluid Pressure Switch Signal C</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


E</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


RED</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1226</TD>
<TD vAlign=center>


Fluid Pressure Switch Signal E</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


F</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


DK BLU</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1225</TD>
<TD vAlign=center>


Fluid Pressure Switch Signal D</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


G</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


YEL</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1227</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


TFT Sensor Signal </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


H</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


BLK</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


407</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


Low Reference</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


J</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


BRN</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


418</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


TCC PWM Solenoid Valve Control</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


K</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


TAN</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


901</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


Fluid Pressure Switch Reverse Signal</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


L</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


RED/BLK</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1228</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


PPC Solenoid A Valve High Control</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


M</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


LT BLU</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=middle>


1229</TD>
<TD vAlign=center align=left>


PPC Solenoid A Valve Low Contro
 

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Discussion Starter #5
U and V on my facotry harness are connected together. It is an 04 harness.
 

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GMCSID said:
I believe C3 is the one with coiled ring that goes on before the snap ring. It's very important not to let the coil overlap itself.

GMCSID, since Amric is busy chasing the other possible issues, I'll respond to this one: It's the C2 which has that coiled ring, and that was all good.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So what do you think it means when it runs good in both D3 and reverse when the TCM is disconnected? Perhaps I fried the TCM when reconecting the battery. It did spark a couple of times as I was trying to get the battery threads started.


If I could get my hands on a tech II, perhaps I could lock it in each gear one at a time and see how it behaves. I looked up what clutches are applied in D3 and Reverse, and in both cases the C3 was applied. Perhaps the C3 will not disengage because on the snap ring pressure.
 

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when the tcm is disconnected, your eliminating all electrical input to the trans, and since 3rd and reverse can be achieved on hydaulics alone, those are the defaults. First thing I would do is make sure that the input and the turbine speed sensors are plugged in. Easily missed on the reinstall, I have done it myself. After that, unplug the aux harness for the co-pilot and see if problem is still there. If it goes away, you can isolate it to the harness. I have had some trouble with them. Make sure all the wires are properly seated in the co-pilot connector and the transmission connector. Make sure the connector seats square also.


For the record, the spiral ring is used on the C1 back plate and is the first ring installed on the C4. The C3 is just a snap ring. Where are you squirt holes at on the C3 piston? Snap ring opening? Yours being an 04 adds a solonoid to the mix. I am concerned that the pan doesnt fit properly and you had to 'trim' things to make it fit.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have disconnected the Co-pilot external harness and reconected the factory harness and the results are the same. Of course the Internal harness is still the ATS one, but tommorow, if I'm not steered in a new direction, I will pull the pan, and put the factory internall harness back in and inspect the ATS internal harness.


Both speed sensors are connected.


After the C3 snap ring is in, should there 1/8" clearance in the clutch pack? The snap ring was very hard to install, and there is probably 0 clearance.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Almost forgot,


The air bleed behind the C3 was set to exactly 12 o-clock
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Snap ring opening was at around 1 oclock at one of the 3 large openings.
 

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good, you got the air bleed and snap ring in the right spots, nothing to do with your problem though, just thought I would ask



I think your safe leaving the internal harness in place, just disconnect the "T" harness at the external connector.


You should have about that much clearance in the C3, perhaps a bit less. Those springs are buggers pushing backup at ya when your trying to put the snap ring on. With a buds help, use a hammer handle to push down the backing plate and feed the ring in. I am sure you found a way to do it also. There is a tool, but no good when the bottom half is togather. I would be curious as to seeing if that external "T" harness is the problem.... Run out there and unplug it, just plug in the oem connector and cycle the key and see what happens...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I've already done that. 3 posts up. I disconnected the T connector and reconnected the factory harness. It behaved exactly the same. No forward gears, only reverse. No check engine light. The I reconnected the T connector and tried it both t=with the co-pilot turned on and turned off. All 3 setups yield the same results. Never any check engine light until I completly disconnect the TCM, and then it runs great in D3. I drove it around for 10 minutes up to 45mph, and it was smooth as silk. Reverse work equally well.


I am despirate here. This is my sole transportation, and I running out of ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Are there any TCM codes that do not set a check engine light?
 

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sorry, missed that. It should kick the light and set a P0700, thats the only one you can get with your Quad. The trans codes wont show up with out a tech-2 or similer. You've got me stumped here.......
 

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Did you check fuses? Maybe there is something wrong with the ats the blew a fuse and thats why it doesn't work when you go back to stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I did look for a TCM specific fuse under the hood, but did not see one labled TCM. Is it labled something else? I guess I could check all of them but let me know if you know the exact one.
 

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dmaxalliTech said:
You should have about that much clearance in the C3, perhaps a bit less. Those springs are buggers pushing backup at ya when your trying to put the snap ring on. With a buds help, use a hammer handle to push down the backing plate and feed the ring in. I am sure you found a way to do it also. There is a tool, but no good when the bottom half is togather.

Eric, expanding on this, since I was there for this part of it: We had two guys pushing down w/ hammers, while one person basically forced the C3 snap ring in. IT WAS TIGHT!!! Took a while to do, and we were all breathing heavy when done. I know Paul is praying this isn't it (cuz it means pulling the tranny again), but how tight should that C3 ring be? If it's *that* tight, could it cause the problem?
 

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You could test them all with a test light.
 

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dmaxalliTech said:
For the record, the spiral ring is used on the C1 back plate and is the first ring installed on the C4. The C3 is just a snap ring.

That's right, Eric. I knew it was either the C3 or C4, I couldn't remember off the top of my head.






Look at the IGN 0 in the I/P fuse block and PCM B in the underhood fuse block.Edited by: GMCSID
 
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