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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, what is the deal with these transmissions. As part of testing for DTT i am currently running a remanned tranny and the TRANSGO SHIFTKIT and a DTT specific convertor.


My Question is this. Prior to replacing anything in the tranny at all, we went for a road test to confirm transmission fluid pressure to keep track of the changes the transgo kit would make. Stock pressures in reg transmission mode were 244-247PSIG using a digital pressure gauge and the #4 fitting tapped in to the pressure test area of the tranny. We then re and re'd the valvebody, installing the ball and new trim valves as per instuctions, swapped in the new rebuilt allison, added a new T/C and went for a run....... AND THE PRESSURES STAYED THE SAME after installing the kit! So what gives here? I thought a shift kit was supposed to raise pressures to effectively increase the tranny's holding capacity??!?!?! All the trim solenoids seem to be doing is preventing the excessive 'bleed off' of pressure between the shifts so the actual tranny pressure stays closer to 247 PSIG all the time. OK, the box says the kit will hold 600hp, yet when stacked i can still zing 5th gear..... so my question to all the tranny Guru's out there is #1. How can you claim 600 hp holding capacity without increasing pressure within the transmission; #2. When transgo developed this kit did they pressure test it at all? and did they notice in Tow haul mode that the pressures inside the transmission drop to the 190-200 range? To me that would indicate that our transmissions holding power is 15-20% better running in regular mode.


I know this because of recording these variables before and after the conversion..... and from running the gauge in my truck. Anyone want to chime in here?
 

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Don't know what to tell ya. I originally had stage 4 Suncoast and couldn't zing 5th. Ya i did destroy the c1's after a high boost launch, but no zing in 5th. I now have the c1 altos and am at 600hp and things seem to be fine so far other than i haven't pounded it yet, with boosting and launching. No way, no how, i'll guantee i couldn't zing 5th. That is old news to me and glad its behind me. I do know a guy, has the trans-go kit, with stock converter and with the 215+145 stacked runs good until 5th. Doesn't zing, but slips the converter and does some weird shuttering kind of like defueling and fueling and defueling again. He is a transmission shop owner and is gonna put a triple loc in, as he said my truck is faster than his with the same set-up.


Something has to be wrong with the install. I mean theres a couple guys around here with 600+ and maybe 700+ with the trans-go kit from Suncoast and there not ziinging or limpin around as far as i know.
 

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GJ


You must first understand how the transmission works then you would understand how the kit works. To start with the Allison only runs a fixed line pressure so I must assume you were in the mainline pressure port. You will not see the pressure change from stock, it's not suppose too! If you would like to see what's going on you must tap holes into the valvebody that go to each clutch circut. Once you drilled and tapped those holes you will need to run lines from there out of the transmission. Watch pressures there before and after kit install and you will be on your way to figureing out whats going on. It was well testing I can assure you as I'm the one that developted it with them!
 

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What does DTT have to say ?? I'm surprised to hear their using the Transgo kit as their web site states their going in a different then "others" direction ... The bases of all current upgrade besides ATS is the Transgo kit ...


I have to wonder if something went wrong in the C3 clutch pack during assembly ... Also assuming they made the proper changes in the rotating assembly according to Transgo instructions ...


You didn't mention if DTT installed a TCC Valve ....


Mac
 

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Mack


You have a good point about the C3 clutches and how they were stacked. Same goes for the C4 clutches. Was the piston positioned in the correct place? Was the snap ring? If any of you guys assume that if you put everything back as it was(stock) think again. In my opinion, the Transgo shift kit should be rated at 500hp max. As far as pressure in the Allison; I have been posting that the pressure is fixed. You can up the pressure, but not without a severe price IMHO. Someone posted that hard shifts are good; wrong. Hard shifts mean there was a tie -up in the system(something did not quite release as something else applied). You want quick shifts, that means it should feel cleaner than stock, but no shock.


mike
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Mackin said:
What does DTT have to say ?? I'm surprised to hear their using the Transgo kit as their web site states their going in a different then "others" direction ... The bases of all current upgrade besides ATS is the Transgo kit ...


I have to wonder if something went wrong in the C3 clutch pack during assembly ... Also assuming they made the proper changes in the rotating assembly according to Transgo instructions ...


You didn't mention if DTT installed a TCC Valve ....


Mac

They are headed in a different direction, however at present they are readying their components and i should be going back in another few weeks. Mu understanding of transmissions is a weak point, but in order for it to work do we not need to raise tranny pressure? The valves limit or stabilize pressure drop between shifts, but overall it doesn't address the working pressure of the apply pistons which we need more of (pressure) to keep clutches from slipping. A tranny is a closed system, so increasing orifice size only increases volume of fluid, not pressure (in a closed loop system).


On another note, the hot Juice is now hitting 27PSIG post CAC and not defuelling between shifts which is nice, stacked is wild....lol this power stuff is corrupting.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
heartbeatcanada said:
Don't know what to tell ya. I originally had stage 4 Suncoast and couldn't zing 5th. Ya i did destroy the c1's after a high boost launch, but no zing in 5th. I now have the c1 altos and am at 600hp and things seem to be fine so far other than i haven't pounded it yet, with boosting and launching. No way, no how, i'll guantee i couldn't zing 5th. That is old news to me and glad its behind me. I do know a guy, has the trans-go kit, with stock converter and with the 215+145 stacked runs good until 5th. Doesn't zing, but slips the converter and does some weird shuttering kind of like defueling and fueling and defueling again. He is a transmission shop owner and is gonna put a triple loc in, as he said my truck is faster than his with the same set-up.


Something has to be wrong with the install. I mean theres a couple guys around here with 600+ and maybe 700+ with the trans-go kit from Suncoast and there not ziinging or limpin around as far as i know.

My stock convertor was fine..... not blued or anything. I assumed my convertor was part of the culprit, but upon inspection it was not.
 

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If you want to observe what pressures the clutch packs are actually seeing, a gauge on main line will not tell you. This is what you will need to do if you want some real world data.


In addition to hydraulic modifications Sun Coast increases friction capacity as follows:


OEM Sun Coast


C-1 103 sq" 176 sq "


C-2 147 sq " 246 sq "


C-3 148 sq " 260 sq "


C-4 186 sq " 223 sq "


Increasing clutch area is only one of many modifications Sun Coast does to bring the Allison up to torque capacity required for 600 + HP.


"In keeping with our commitent to product excellance we at DTT have chosen not to follow the present industry of shift kit and factory like performing torque converters."


Real R&D engineering requires an immense amount of investment of time and money. So why would one install valves in a prototype when one doesn't intend to use them in the final product? Xerox engineering is cheaper and quicker but the old adage kicks in"you get what you pay for"





 

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I have an Allison question, however it is not related to the current thread. I figured since all of the resident experts are here I stand my best chance of getting a good answer. I am working with a vendor who wants to know my Allison serial number and model. He told me I could find it on a tag connected to the tranny on the driver side. I looked and could not find it. Is there a way to identify my exact transmission information? PM me if you do not want to hyjack this cool thread. Thanks.
 

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Smoop,


Welcome to the site. I think I have seen that shark in your avatar before



Dennis
 

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Bronco said:
I have an Allison question, however it is not related to the current thread. I figured since all of the resident experts are here I stand my best chance of getting a good answer. I am working with a vendor who wants to know my Allison serial number and model. He told me I could find it on a tag connected to the tranny on the driver side. I looked and could not find it. Is there a way to identify my exact transmission information? PM me if you do not want to hyjack this cool thread. Thanks.

It's there ... Difficult to see as it is afixed to the side of the case near the middle of the case ...


Here's a Pic bud ...








Mac
 

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xerox engineering comment leads me to believe I might know him also
 

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Discussion Starter #14
sdaver said:
xerox engineering comment leads me to believe I might know him also







You went to the same engineering school?
 

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no I just recognize the comment.......Im not against a little expermenting. Just bear in mind when you are testing for others there is certain amount of cost associated with it even if they are footing the bills. Your time and effort is worth something, hopefully it will all turn out good. So far my tranny was a easy experiment 34k miles and no regrets. Easy because the r&d was done before I got mine. But given the opportunity I would have been a guina pig too. Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #17
sdaver said:
no I just recognize the comment.......Im not against a little expermenting. Just bear in mind when you are testing for others there is certain amount of cost associated with it even if they are footing the bills. Your time and effort is worth something, hopefully it will all turn out good. So far my tranny was a easy experiment 34k miles and no regrets. Easy because the r&d was done before I got mine. But given the opportunity I would have been a guina pig too. Good luck

Thanks Super!


Guineapigs aside, it is fun, exciting and nervous all at the same time.


My time and effort is worth something, but at this point i am glad to be moving in a positive direction.
 

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Mackin said:
Bronco said:
I have an Allison question, however it is not related to the current thread. I figured since all of the resident experts are here I stand my best chance of getting a good answer. I am working with a vendor who wants to know my Allison serial number and model. He told me I could find it on a tag connected to the tranny on the driver side. I looked and could not find it. Is there a way to identify my exact transmission information? PM me if you do not want to hyjack this cool thread. Thanks.

It's there ... Difficult to see as it is afixed to the side of the case near the middle of the case ...


Here's a Pic bud ...








Mac

Mac,


Thanks for the info. The reason I asked is because the post from a couple of weeks ago about the new ALLISON vocational models really got me thinkin. The link showed some pretty outrageous HP/TQ numbers. After working with the local Allison rep. we came to the conclusion that the only "retrans" Allison offers is a 565FTLBSTQ model. It runs about 4500$ The trannys listed for the RV,truck,motorhome or Emergency vehicle are all other series than the 1000.
Currently it appears it is Suncoast, Ats or maybe DTT? Now alls I have to do is read between the lines and find the miniumum I need to run any one single box with minimum defuel??
 

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Bronco


I pity the shop that ever works on your truck. They would be better off sending you $100.00 each just to get rid of you. You sir are a PEST.
 

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Thanks.
 
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