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Discussion Starter #1
If you have not see the video of the trans going out...this is it:
http://video.dieselplace.com/video/7E94D86C-BFD4-4702-9FD9-4C59CF33B938.htm

To start off, I have had a few carnage moments with the truck including exploded CV shafts and the recent blown turbo/bent #7 rod/damaged #7 piston. Its all in good fun, pay to play, live and learn,.. etc:D. To preface about my transmission choice: I was new to the game and only on this forum for a few weeks. Since then I have learned a lot from the DP gods. I chose a local shop that builds race/performance tranmission. I gave them the task of the Allison. I cannot tell you the exact specs of the internals but has the triple disc TC and fully rebuilt, coming near or above the cost of other Stage 5 tranmissions. The trans was installed last August and has been beat up ever since with 1/4 mile runs and driving it like I stole it. It has always performed great..no problems. I was given a 1 year/unlimited mile warranty. Within the last couple months, the truck, when in T/H mode, would make a squeal sound when shifting from 3-4, 4-5. Sounded like the T/C. Well if you watched the video, you will see it does not run anymore. I could not even move the truck up a slight incline, let alone a flat surface. he trans temp shot up to about 200. I did have reverse.):h This damage is about 1K miles after the A5K was installed. The shop has the truck, dropped the trans and found that ALL the clutches were completely burnt. At first he asked if the trans was relearned after the motor was removed and batts disconnected. I let him know that the TCM was not altered. Guess he thought the batts disconnect would reset the TCM...maybe like older vehicles?:rolleyes: They have everything replaced and said they need to find out what happend. He said something about a possiblitly of a drop in line pressure? Continued saying he would put a deep pan on it, measure line pressures, take some type of film:confused: , etc. I am not a trans guy. I know many of you would say I should have went with SC, ATS, etc. but I went with this trans, due to my "newbieism" and need to stick it out. Dont want to drop another 5K+, especially after the turbo/studs/injectors/motor build. So, my questions to the gods:
What would cause the firestorm through all the clutches, all at once?
Can the TCM ever be reset or the trans in fast learn without a Tech II, handheld, etc? Would no power for an extened period reset it?
What would the squeal from shifting in T/H stem from?
Any other comments?

Thanks!!
 

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I wonder if it the trans was trying to engage 2 gears at once?

Im pretty sure ive read on here of that happening and just tearing the clutches up. Maybe that was your noise too.
 

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Sounds like a major malf in the trans if ALL the clutches are burnt. Even if the TAPs were not reset, it wont self destruct....
 

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I saw that video and was wondering who it was....pretty hard core Mike!:ro) How did the #7 rod bend and bearings go out in the first place? Was it under warentee?):h Off topic...im just curious how it happend. At least the transmission didnt actually "blow up"...meaning no hard parts were harmed right? Just roasted all the clutches? Certainly proves the Ally hard parts are durable.

I am by no means a tranny expert, but I did rebuild my Allison myself. Some of the passages on the front pump housing and valve body are incredibly small and intricate. Perhaps one of the clutches delaminated or a chunk broke off and clogged up one of the passages, resulting in a sudden loss of line pressure? Were the clutches smoked on all surfaces or only around the outside ring? HOw long did the trans last from when you rebuilt it? Did it shift right and make no noises in the beginning? The squealing could be clutches slipping from inadequate lube maybe? Or maybe one of the bearings on the transmission went out, causing something to tie up inside? IIRC there are 4 bearings inside the transmission, its tricky to tell which side on the bearings is "up", and if one goes in upside down, the trans will grenade. Would have been interesting to know line pressures at the time of the burning up.

Like I said, im NO tranny expert by any means, im just shooting in the dark with what I learned about the workings of the Ally when I rebuilt mine.

Mike or Eric will probably be able to tell you right away what went wrong. Hopefully you'll be back on the road soon!

Ben
 

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ahh Eric already answered... :)

Eric could a SEVERE clutch tie-up during a shift cause this??
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I saw that video and was wondering who it was....pretty hard core Mike!:ro) How did the #7 rod bend and bearings go out in the first place? Was it under warentee?):h Off topic...im just curious how it happend. At least the transmission didnt actually "blow up"...meaning no hard parts were harmed right? Just roasted all the clutches? Certainly proves the Ally hard parts are durable.

I am by no means a tranny expert, but I did rebuild my Allison myself. Some of the passages on the front pump housing and valve body are incredibly small and intricate. Perhaps one of the clutches delaminated or a chunk broke off and clogged up one of the passages, resulting in a sudden loss of line pressure? Were the clutches smoked on all surfaces or only around the outside ring? HOw long did the trans last from when you rebuilt it? Did it shift right and make no noises in the beginning? The squealing could be clutches slipping from inadequate lube maybe? Or maybe one of the bearings on the transmission went out, causing something to tie up inside? IIRC there are 4 bearings inside the transmission, its tricky to tell which side on the bearings is "up", and if one goes in upside down, the trans will grenade. Would have been interesting to know line pressures at the time of the burning up.

Like I said, im NO tranny expert by any means, im just shooting in the dark with what I learned about the workings of the Ally when I rebuilt mine.

Mike or Eric will probably be able to tell you right away what went wrong. Hopefully you'll be back on the road soon!

Ben
Ben...thanks for the input! I went to GM, with the top of the motor torn apart to expose the blown turbo. I told them the truck would not start, suspecting it was water in the fuel.:D No warranty attempt):h I just loaded it up, shipped it to Ohio, and used my blown turbo as an excuse to upgrade. The rod bent due to excess oil, from the blown turbo, making it into the top of the motor. Since the motor was pulled all the bearing were replaced for precaution and for the hell of it:)

As far as the trans...it has been fine for the past 8 months with no problems. No hard parts were damaged. I was only told that the clutches were all burnt, dont know too many details. I will try to check them out when i go up on Friday to get the truck back.



Sounds like a major malf in the trans if ALL the clutches are burnt. Even if the TAPs were not reset, it wont self destruct....
Thanks Eric. I didnt think a "fast learn" trans would have a nervous breakdown like this.
 

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Without knowing what componants were installed and how they were installed I could not say. Too many things enter in the picture like; was a program changed and then raced right away,was the spin on changed after the first 500 miles. Allys do not like standstill burnouts or bleach boxes without letting up on the throttle and brake and let it coast out. You could also have had a converter failure.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Without knowing what componants were installed and how they were installed I could not say. Too many things enter in the picture like; was a program changed and then raced right away,was the spin on changed after the first 500 miles. Allys do not like standstill burnouts or bleach boxes without letting up on the throttle and brake and let it coast out. You could also have had a converter failure.
Mike,

When you say change of program, you are refering to the TTS economy/tow/race program? How does this affect the trans? By a quick change of what it has learned? As far as a burnout, I know they are not great for the trans. They said the converter was ok.
 

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Mike,

When you say change of program, you are referring to the TTS economy/tow/race program? How does this affect the trans? By a quick change of what it has learned? As far as a burnout, I know they are not great for the trans. They said the converter was ok.
If you switch from one tune to the other in leaps then the tranny is confused electronically.So the clutches are coming on and off expecting less power and can slip.

But not knowing what you had in there and beating the tar out of it who's to say.What did the tranny builder do to add holding capacity exactly?

That is the first start.

Like anything although beating the snot out of something is going to break sooner than later.It's a domino effect too.
,Weaken say C! and then so on and on.
 

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I would inquire more into what components the trans was rebuilt with. If they just put in new stock clutch packs and a transgo kit then, about anyone on this board could tell you that isn't enough for the power you've been throwing at it, especially now with the latest upgrades):h

Did you limp it previous to it completely failing to move?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I would inquire more into what components the trans was rebuilt with. If they just put in new stock clutch packs and a transgo kit then, about anyone on this board could tell you that isn't enough for the power you've been throwing at it, especially now with the latest upgrades):h

Did you limp it previous to it completely failing to move?
Kyle,

What upgrades. The leaf blower on top of the motor? :D The tranny never limped once and has actually ran flawless. Since I received the TTS in Sept/Oct, it was always on "kill". It was running fine with the new upgrades too. It was just this time, as seen in the video, it started to fail and then gave out. As far as replacement parts, I know it was not factory/transgo. I told them about the power I was going to throw at it and they did not have a problem with the warranty. He was very suprised the clutches all went out at once. I told him today the truck has 500+ RWHP/1000+TQ (on the light side):h ) and he expressed that the trans will have no problem with that. He just thinks that there was another factor that led to this. Like Mike L. said, it may have been the switch of the program. I was running the truck on the lower settings to break the new turbo in along with the new internals. For the video....the switch was moved to the "fun" setting:D .
 

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I see you have one of those level 10 transmissions should'a went for the 15. :D

Any thing can be tore up without something going wrong with enough abuse.I wouldn't know anything about that first hand.

Still would be interesting what was done internally although before assuming it would hold at those HP levels.
 

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I see you have one of those level 10 transmissions should'a went for the 15. :D

Any thing can be tore up without something going wrong with enough abuse.I wouldn't know anything about that first hand.

Still would be interesting what was done internally although before assuming it would hold at those HP levels.
I didnt have enough money for the 15):h . You are right about the abuse..I am sure my truck did something wrong and deserved it:D

I am going to try and get a run down of the replacement internals and mods.
 

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I would not use the converter again. I would also ask who built the converter. I would question the cooler flow at this point also. Look at the converter yourself and see if there is any discoloration on the paint.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I would not use the converter again. I would also ask who built the converter. I would question the cooler flow at this point also. Look at the converter yourself and see if there is any discoloration on the paint.
Thanks Mike. I think he mentioned that it was getting a new one or they were doing something with it. I will find out. Can a converter be rebuilt?
 

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The convertor was that ugly teal blue color. I know i have pulled a few dodge auto transmissions out that had been rebuilt and "upgraded" by a local transmission shop and their convertors were that same exact color. Not sure if its the same aftermarket company building all those teal blue convertors or not, maybe someone on here knows? DO NOT reuse that convertor as Mike said it needs to be opened up and cleaned by the manufacturer before being put infront of a transmission again. Has your transmission guy dealt with any other duramax/allison's or diesel trucks for that manor in this horsepower/torq range before? Matt
 

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Matt
Good point. There are all sorts of companys getting into the diesel performance business for the money because it is a big market. One of the big problems is they are starting where we were 3 to 4 years ago as far as tech. TCI, B/M and the like have no idea what is going on, but they have a killer diesel converter with your name on it.:eek: Be carefull what you buy and whom you buy from.
mike
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The convertor was that ugly teal blue color. I know i have pulled a few dodge auto transmissions out that had been rebuilt and "upgraded" by a local transmission shop and their convertors were that same exact color. Not sure if its the same aftermarket company building all those teal blue convertors or not, maybe someone on here knows? DO NOT reuse that convertor as Mike said it needs to be opened up and cleaned by the manufacturer before being put infront of a transmission again. Has your transmission guy dealt with any other duramax/allison's or diesel trucks for that manor in this horsepower/torq range before? Matt
Matt,

I am not sure if they have built other allisons. This company does manufacture their own parts. I will call them and find out about the converter. Like I said....I am stuck with this trans so I will have to see what it is all about. It has been good for about 8+months.......
 

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With so many people having success w/ a SC III or IV at similar power levels, I suspect new clutches and aftermarket TC went in. IdahoRob's clutches were a little burnt but thats b/c he's making big power with stock clutches, Transgo, and a SC converter. It just sounds similar.
 
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